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Posted: 5/5/2017 10:16:42 PM EDT
| I purchased 4,000 pulled 45 fmj bullets and they seem to be .450 in size. I am using hornady dies and I've done all I can think of to make these bullets work. The problem I'm having is once I seat the bullet, I can push the bullet further into the case with my finger. I've maxed out my roll crimp and I've backed off my expander die to try and make these work. Does anyone have any other suggestions? |
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Since you have so many and maybe don't want to send them back, I'd recommend trying Lee's U-Die. It sizes brass from .002-.003" more than standard dies. Inexpensive. Using thinner than other brands brass makes the problem worse. Some die tolerances won't size thin walled brass enough and slightly undersized bullets and thin brass is impossible. A crimp won't make them tighter in the necks. I would use your standard die to size the case and then use the Lee U-Die, undersized die, and size the cases down just past where the bullet stops. Or you may just size them once in the Lee U-Die. You can try sizing with the U-Die but I find that it sizes more down by the case base than I want.
Search for Lee U-Die 45 ACP. Midway for one has them for $17.95. |
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1. Brand of bullets? Have you confirmed the bullet diameter measurements of .450 reliably? One option, will the vendor take them back if they are undersized?
2. .45 ACP plug should be on order .449 diameter except where the expansion zone widens out for the bell. What does yours measure? Option, turn / sand down the expander to a smaller diameter on the straight section. 3. You should be taper crimping .45 ACP for proper headspace on the mouth. A taper crimp will not make up for poor neck tension. I would not use roll crimp for .45 ACP except maybe for revolver? In my view a roll crmip is also an inadequate fix for poor neck tension. |
| I agree, don't use a roll crimp die for 45 ACP. If that's what you have then when ordering the Lee U-Die I'd get a separate taper crimp seating die. I have a few Hornady Die sets and often buy a separate taper crimp seater die, usually RCBS. I like Hornady's seaters with sliding alignment sleeve but don't like the way they crimp. Some sets the Hornady sliding alignment sleeve doesn't even have a crimp feature and you have to buy a separate taper crimp die. I only like a true taper crimp die and don't care for so-called Factory Crimp Dies from Lee. |
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That's a lot of work PC'ing FMJ bullets, Dryflash.. seems a huge waste.
I would go with the undersized die mentioned above (if Lee makes one for 45acp?). I had to go with undersized 38 and 44 die when I had some small plated bullets. Worked well. Careful though.. if you are using a 1050, the swage station opens the case back up a bit (not just the flare portion). Might take away the undersizing. If not using a 1050, ignore that comment. |
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Did you try not expanding. Many FMJ's have rounded corners on the base and are tough enough not to shave.
If you find not expanding leaves you with enough neck tension you possibly could get a Lee universal expander (which actually doesn't expand it only creates a mouth flare) and simply replace the expander die with the mouth flare die. Motor |
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Thanks for all the tips guys. I am going to try backing off my expander some more or completely remove it. I am also going to order the undersize die and the taper crimp die to see if i can get these bullets to work. If not, they will be going back.
Currently, powder coating the bullets is not an option. |
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My solution to undersize bullets.
resize and deprime as normal do not use the expander die, instead use the Lee universal flare die to just open the case mouth enough to start the bullet using the normal seating die use the Lee factory crimp die as normal after seating has worked well with several lots of undersized bullets in 9 and .45 the Lee universal flare die is available from Midway and it works with .22 to .45 cases and its inexpensive good luck |
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Quoted:
Thanks for all the tips guys. I am going to try backing off my expander some more or completely remove it. I am also going to order the undersize die and the taper crimp die to see if i can get these bullets to work. If not, they will be going back. Currently, powder coating the bullets is not an option. Motor |
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Edited: All attempts to post Midway links to the two Hornady .45 ACP die sets failed. Copying the link directly into the post blows up. Using the URL feature here results in an Ebay error link.
So Hornady makes two .45 ACP die sets, one with roll crimp, one with taper crimp. So he could have the roll crimp seater. Motor I agree with you, but I think its kind of a mixed bag in the seating die department. Some (like I think the Lee dies) will do both. Not being in the market for new dies regularly makes one (me) loose track of what is out there. |
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I believe i misspoke earlier. I do have the hornady dies that have the taper crimp within the seating die.
I revisited my press this morning and here is what i found. All my bullets are sized at .450. I attempted to load some rounds and the rounds wouldn't push through on some but would on others. The culprit seems to be herters brass which has a thickness of 0.008" while the rest of the brass seems to be 0.010". I plan to still order the taper crimp die from lee and see if that will help prevent setback. Thanks for all the help guys. |
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More crimp will not fix the problem. All that does is crush the bullet which stays smaller while the brass opens up because it's springy, called springback. You'll end up with crushed bullets that still spin.
Another crimp die won't help. Order the universal expander mentioned several posts above. That die only flares the mouth so the bullet can sit on top but not expand the case farther down, which is the problem when using undersized bullets. |
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Quoted:
Try running them back through the sizer die.... I will also put the universal expander on the list of dies to buy and report back my findings. Thanks everyone. |
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Are you measuring with a caliper or a micrometer?
Check with a micrometer. Measuring case wall thickness with a caliper is also affected by the quality of the jaws. Many do not have actual 'knife edges' but have small flats on the edges. A tubing micrometer with a round anvil is used to get accurate case measurements. The dies to 'bump up' bullet diameter are likely to cost more than the value of the bullets. Some thicker brass would not be all that much money. Starline is very high quality brass at a very reasonable price. Buying 100 shells to try would be worth being able to possibly use 4,000 bullets. A stiff load should be able to upset them enough to work if they are actually under. The forces generated by the quick acceleration of a bullet are very large. Zero to a muzzle velocity in a few milliseconds works out to a large number of gs. |
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I'm finding it hard to believe that you have a 45acp die set with a roll crimp die. 45acp die sets typically come with taper crimp die and if you want a roll crimp (for revolver use) you have to buy it separately. Motor Looks like they still make 'em, isn't there a 45 ACP revolver cartridge out there? https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/169099/rcbs-roll-crimp-seater-die-45-acp-45-gap?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Dies+%26+Shellholders-_-RCBS-_-169099&gclid=CIe0-tKm3NMCFdU7gQodHBEJfA |
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Lee u die, lee universal expander/or turned down expander plug, Redding comp seater and LFC. Even Win factory 230 fmj are undersized. If u combine them with rem brass, ya might have a problem using regular dies.
For future consideration, magtech 230 fmj are wider dia and very accurate. A lot of variation in 45 acp brass and bullets, being able to adapt is a good thing. |
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Quoted:
I believe i misspoke earlier. I do have the hornady dies that have the taper crimp within the seating die. I revisited my press this morning and here is what i found. All my bullets are sized at .450. I attempted to load some rounds and the rounds wouldn't push through on some but would on others. The culprit seems to be herters brass which has a thickness of 0.008" while the rest of the brass seems to be 0.010". I plan to still order the taper crimp die from lee and see if that will help prevent setback. Thanks for all the help guys. Problems you're having are why I sort pistol brass. |
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Quoted:
Looks like they still make 'em, isn't there a 45 ACP revolver cartridge out there? Ruger Redhawk ETA- Ruger Vaquero, S&W 625, Charter Arms pitbull....quite a list really. Anyone know offhand if most 45LC will adapt to 45ACP with moon clips? |
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I'm finding it hard to believe that you have a 45acp die set with a roll crimp die. 45acp die sets typically come with taper crimp die and if you want a roll crimp (for revolver use) you have to buy it separately.
Motor And, they still sell them that way too! They only provide Taper Crimp Dies in 3 sets 546516DIESET 3 TAPER CRIMP 9MM/9X21 546534DIESET 3 TAPER CRIMP 10MM/40SW 546555DIESET 3 TAPER CRIMP 45 AUTO All others are roll crimp 546506DIESET 3 32 AUTO (.311) 546509DIESET 3 32 S&W LONG/H&R(.311) 546518DIESET 3 380 AUTO (.355) 546515DIESET 3 9MM LUGER/9X21 (.355) 546524DIESET 3 38 SUPER AUTO (.357) 546575DIESET 3 357 SIG (.355) 546527DIESET 3 38-357-357 MAX (.357) 546512DIESET 3 9x18 MAKAROV (.364) 546533DIESET 3 10MM/40 S&W (.400) 546539DIESET 3 41 MAG/AE (.410) 546548DIESET 3 44 SPL/44 MAG (.430) 546554DIESET 3 45 AUTO/AR/WIN MAG 546582DIESET 3 45 COLT (.452) |
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Thanks M22723 for the list of Hornady seating dies that have the taper crimp feature in the sliding alignment sleeve. I knew older Hornady seating dies like mine did not taper crimp and you had to buy a separate taper crimp die. I still would prefer a separate taper crimp die and crimping in a separate step rather than using the Hornady seating die with sliding alignment sleeve.
I load Winchester's 230 FMJ's and didn't realize that they were about .450" dia. Measured my old stock and new stock and they are the same. They shoot well in all my 45's, Glocks, Colts, and Springfields. |
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Quoted:
I believe he stated that he found his only problem was with Herter's brass that it was too thin. If no expander works or is too tight, and with expander is too large, the thing to do is polish the expander to a smaller diameter. Thereafter, you can call it your Herter's expander ball. Expanders are inexpensive and are easily replaced. |
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