Armory Sponsor
Posted: 7/29/2008 4:56:00 PM EDT
|
Running a box of 50 reloads and had several fail to fully chamber, stopping about 1/8" short. Fired in 2 different 1911's and both behaved the same way. These are full power loads, 200 gr plated SWC, pushing 1000 fps. I ran the remaining 40 through the tumbler to clean them, wiped each checking for defects then ran them through my taper crimping die. Same results… Only thing out of the norm was that these were TW 54 and are steel cases. Some nickel plated brass I had went through without a single problem. I blame the brass unless someone can give me some better ideas??? |
| I had to use 1.25 for overall length on my 200 swc and they are not plated. Agree with checking crimp too. Just because you are using a taper crimp doesn't necessarily mean it it enough, you have to measure to make sure. Don't know anything about using steel cases as I only use brass. Steel just seems to stiff to me. I leave all the steel cases for others to pick up. |
|
Too much crimp will buckle the case and it will fail to chamber. Too large a bullet and it will fail to chamber. Use a .451" bullet an a slight crimp. The OAL will depend on bullet brand. Most H&G No. 68 pattern SWC bullets are loaded from 1.225" to 1.250" OAL. I load Lasercasts to 1.250". |
|
Well there has been a collection of diverse thoughts but nothing jumps out. One mentioned the Steel of Wolf. This is TW 54 and I seriously doubt they are the same. No idea what the plating is, looks (loosely resembles) aluminum in that it is silvery and dull even when run through the polisher that put a gleam on the brass, brass in the same batch. Chamber checking, yes I do, but not every round. Some of these seemed 'too long' on reexamination, so I ran them through the taper die again. Then checked OK (not all tested). Keep in mind I bought a 1,000 box of the bullets and loaded all of them. The only ones displaying any trouble are the ones in TW 54 steel brass. The other 950 ran through 4 Colts without missing a beat. Honestly I do not recall where I got this brass, WCC 68 being my oldest. I think it was a range pickup and that may be why the original shooter left it behind!  I don't need any extra challenges so I may just dump this brass and move on with what is left of my life… Thanks for the thoughts. |
Parrot32, Honestly, I'd just dump it and move on. Aloha, Mark PS........that's the reason WHY, I wouldn't recommend to anyone, to start their re-loading adventure using steel cases. |
|
I thought about it some (dangerous).......... Say, the steel case didn't expand enough (vs. a brass case) to seal the chamber and give the pistol enough backwards recoil to work the slide.....so, could that be it? Could/Would, the "lack of expansion" of the steel case (vs. brass) be the main problem? I know that CowBoy shooters have complained about dirty brass necks when shooting low power bottle necked pistol cartridges (.44-40). And, the response was that, it's a result of the low power loads and the brass not expanding enough to seal the chamber. Then, not to mention the (sometimes) problems with WOLF steel .223/5.56mm ammo. Some say: it's the powder.....it's the steel cases.....it's the Q.C. of the commies......then, it might be due to all of the factors, plus the lack of taper to the .223/5.56mm round. BUT........oh well...........working with brass is so much easier. ________________________________________________ TW 54 = Twin Cities I had thought that the military gave up on steel cases for .45 ACP after WW2. And, the Korean War was finished by '53. Oh well.....I learned something new. Aloha, Mark |
|
Went through all that failing to chamber two times. First boo boo was loading .45ACP with .452 size bullets, Went back to .451 and problem cured. Second boo boo was Lee bullet seating and crimp die adjusted for too much crimp, cases deformed and .471 or thereabouts at crimp. Back off on the die/crimp. I got hold of some Ranier copper plated lead, 230 gr. RN and they are sweet shooters, don't lead the barrel, more accurate than I am and considerably cheaper than jacketed bullets. I clean the brass before reloading in a drill and 00 steel wool, held by a #2 holder made for a Lee case trimmer, Good luck, have fun... |
I'm very happy to hear that. |
|
You know what gang??? I am going to have to eat sh-t on this one!!!  I was back out with two more boxes and still had an intermittent failure with other brass. I brought the offenders back home and have a theory… I will do some testing next week and report my findings but it is sure looking like a dumbass reloader mistake! The offenders were chamber checked in 3 .45 ACP barrels and they did stop short, but not so much that it looked like a problem… I think that reseating the bullets to 1.205" is the answer. Another mistake was that I thought this was the end of a 1,000 bullet batch. Nope, it was the first box! They were loaded in 2005 and I did not keep any record of what bullet they are. I had settled on a different bullet and these were loaded to finish up the lot. I will do some testing and get back with my results/confessions. |
Stickout is not the way to measure. It needs to be measured from the cartridge base to bullet shoulder. And that should be compared to the actual length of the chamber. The .45 ACP cases range from 0.893 to 0.989. Then 0.03 would yield:
0.898 + 0.03 = 0.928 My chamber measures 0.910 All good theory but I need to test my reseated loads. |
|
We are not communicating. This isn't about measuring the chamber. Your chamber body may measure .898", but that figure is completely irrelevant to the issue of OAL. The reason you want some of the bullet shoulder sticking out past the case mouth is so it can center the bullet in the throat while the round is chambered. If you seat the bullet so that none of it sits in the throat when the round chambers, the bullet will have to skip into the throat, shaving it's shank against the 45 degree cut between the chamber and the throat. The reason you are experiencing chambering issues may be due to the fact that your throat diameter and bullet diameter are too close. You cannot simply drop a .452" bullet into a .452" throat. If your throat diameter is indeed .452" (as was the case with my Wilson CQB), the correct remedy is not seating deeper. It is to use a .451" bullet. If you seat a SWC too deep, you'll induce feeding geometry issues to the round. Another option is to run a standard chambering reamer by hand and open the throat to .453" |
 This is a pretty good illustration how a 45 ACP round headspaces.  This is how a 45 ACP SWC round should look. Notice that about .030" of the bullet shoulder is sticking out past the case mouth. This part of the bullet sits in the throat. It needs to be small enough in diameter to fit in the throat. |
|
The bullet diameter is 0.451". When the bullets are loaded to 1.250" they exhibit problems in 3 different 1911 pistols. It seems unlikely that all three suddenly need their chamber reamed… Their dates of purchase vary but the oldest I bought 33 years ago followed by one I have had for 17 years and the newest is 2 months old. While reaming the chamber is one solution it is not going to happen in this case, The problem appears to be the shoulder of the bullet contacting the throat. The remedy is to seat it deeper. I reseated to 1.205" and put 100 rounds downrange today without a single malfunction of any kind. The CoA is what the die seats the bullet with so it becomes the guiding factor after you have established what depth is going to chamber correctly. Not one manufacture of 200 grain LSWCs bullet is identical to another's, and .45 ACP case length varies, thus there can be no blanket CoA or Stickout from the case figure. The CoA for each "new bullet" has to be determined on its' own. Interestingly the powder manufacture indicates 1.190" CoA for a ? LSWC. This would put the bullet shoulder below the case mouth for the bullets I have. The mistake I made with this is that I went from one manufacture's LSWC to another's plated LSWC assuming that they would be the same. They were not!!! An interesting opportunity presented itself in this screw up! A chance to see what difference the 0.045 seating depth change would have. Of course it will increase pressure, which in turn increases velocity, but how much??? Well, the average velocity went from 951.9 fps to 1022.6 fps or 70.7 fps increase. I find that a pretty substantial increase for such a small change in seating depth… This is the max load for that combo and the 1022 fps actually matches the manufactures data. It has been interesting, but now I have a gun to clean and about 400 rounds to reseat…  |
|
This is precisely what i was trying to get you to avoid. My rounds look like the ones on the left. I have never had any chambering issues so long as the bullets were kept to .4515" or less in diameter. *On another note, perhaps plated bullets are harder and less likely to conform (swage down) as they enter the throat? This could be the answer. Lead will simply swage down under the weight of the slide/recoil spring. The rounds on the right are seated too deep, IMO. If you load lead SWC that way, you'll likely be craping alot of lead from the bore and chamber. The increase in pressure due to a shorter OAL is normal. You are probably running 2-4KPSI higher pressures. |
Armory Sponsor