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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 62gr Fusion (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/3/2015 8:20:42 AM EDT
| Haven't had great luck with these until I tried 25.8 of CFE. For both the 1/7 and 1/8 it's been a terrific load and chronos in the 2800's. I'm sure all the other stuff would find a sweet spot, but that upper 25gr area is wonderful. |
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I have a lot of experience with these.
20" SS CHF FN Barrel: 26.4 TAC 3093fps 3053fps 3072 fps 1.5 MOA 10 shot groups See also my thread here about TAC and H335 in different barrel lengths ETA, the bulk of my bullets were the 64gr version but they load virtually identical in my experience. |
16in and I had less luck with TAC. I'll need to ladder a little more with the TAC as it should do as well, just not so far. With out looking at the notes, I'm thinking I haven't gone over 25 with TAC. I bought a few # CFE during the crunch and now have both as I jumped on some TAC when it came in. As close to Varget as I can get in accuracy and it meters like water, and I get a copper free barrel to boot
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16in and I had less luck with TAC. I'll need to ladder a little more with the TAC as it should do as well, just not so far. With out looking at the notes, I'm thinking I haven't gone over 25 with TAC. I bought a few # CFE during the crunch and now have both as I jumped on some TAC when it came in. As close to Varget as I can get in accuracy and it meters like water, and I get a copper free barrel to boot To address above, I don't remember what I paid, but RMR bullets gets them now and again and I think they were very close to the pre panic SS109 cost. |
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Not the most accurate bullet, but are very "service" accurate. 1.5" - 2" groups. (Disclaimer: My guns are not overly fond of 60=69gr bullets in general).
They were available for $99/k at one time as pulls. I have not tried Rl-15 or Varget yet with these bullets. For SD or hunting at reasonable ranges, they look like great choices. If you can't get these at a reasonable price, Nosler 64 gr bonded are available for 24$/100 from shooters pro shop. Partitions are always a great choice, but expensive. I have not done accuracy work with either of these bullets. |
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Not the most accurate bullet, but are very "service" accurate. 1.5" - 2" groups. (Disclaimer: My guns are not overly fond of 60=69gr bullets in general). They were available for $99/k at one time as pulls. I have not tried Rl-15 or Varget yet with these bullets. For SD or hunting at reasonable ranges, they look like great choices. If you can't get these at a reasonable price, Nosler 64 gr bonded are available for 24$/100 from shooters pro shop. Partitions are always a great choice, but expensive. I have not done accuracy work with either of these bullets. Yep. Great value. I got a bunch of new ones a few years ago in unmarked bags for $90/k but they were most recently available for $100-120/k as pulls. American reloading still has them for a little higher. They are a great value. I also had similar accuracy as shown in my groups. I don't think you'll get better accuracy from either of the nosler bullets. I would rate them as tougher bullets with better intermediate barrier performance. On soft tissue, i think you'll get more expansion to a lower velocity with the fusion. It also has a better bc. Inside of 100, however, either will work about the same (out of a rifle barrel anyways). For hunting, I'd go with the fusions. For tactical use, I'd prefer the tbbc. If those aren't available, I'd still probably go with the fusion over the nosler choices, although the bonded base bullet does seem to be a good choice. |
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I was wondering about accuracy also and what I can do to improve my accuracy. First thing...I'm a newbie reloader so I'm not sure what I need to do different.
I'm loading the 62gr Fed Fusions with 3031 powder using LC brass trimmed to 1.755. The loaded OAL is 2.255". I tried the ladder technique using 5 different powder charges to see which powder weight shoots the best and I found the best group is only approx 1 1/2" at 100yds. I know that I should be able to do better than this as the PMC bronze that I shoot surprisingly groups closer to an inch. Much smaller than the loaded Fusions. The twist is 1/7 on a 20" FN barrel. I do have 4895 powder that I could use or get a different powder but I have 8# of the 3031 that I'd like to use. Any advice? Thanks! |
| I'd try the other powder, it just might not be the right powder for this bullet in your rifle. I switched from the usually great Tac to do better with CFE for this bullet. You also could try more charges or try some other COAL. They are certainly more consistent than SS109 as they should. |
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I was wondering about accuracy also and what I can do to improve my accuracy. First thing...I'm a newbie reloader so I'm not sure what I need to do different. I'm loading the 62gr Fed Fusions with 3031 powder using LC brass trimmed to 1.755. The loaded OAL is 2.255". I tried the ladder technique using 5 different powder charges to see which powder weight shoots the best and I found the best group is only approx 1 1/2" at 100yds. I know that I should be able to do better than this as the PMC bronze that I shoot surprisingly groups closer to an inch. Much smaller than the loaded Fusions. The twist is 1/7 on a 20" FN barrel. I do have 4895 powder that I could use or get a different powder but I have 8# of the 3031 that I'd like to use. Any advice? Thanks! What is your intended purpose for the Fusions? 1.5" group at 100 yards is pretty darn good for a deer or hog hunting load. Just saying. If you are using them to hunt with just go with it. Just out of curiosity, do you crimp the Fusions? There are a few other powders that have proved to be good with the 60s class weight bullets in .223 (AR's) Motor1 |
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I'd like to deer hunt a little with my AR, and an occasional coyote hunt. I'd keep the shot within 100yds or so. I can put the bullet where I need to at this distance but I thought I'd get better accuracy than what I am, especially after seeing what the Bronze can do.
I don't crimp. I may load a batch with the 4895 just to see what it does. Thanks |
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Quoted: I'd like to deer hunt a little with my AR, and an occasional coyote hunt. I'd keep the shot within 100yds or so. I can put the bullet where I need to at this distance but I thought I'd get better accuracy than what I am, especially after seeing what the Bronze can do. I don't crimp. I may load a batch with the 4895 just to see what it does. Thanks |
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I'd like to deer hunt a little with my AR, and an occasional coyote hunt. I'd keep the shot within 100yds or so. I can put the bullet where I need to at this distance but I thought I'd get better accuracy than what I am, especially after seeing what the Bronze can do. I don't crimp. I may load a batch with the 4895 just to see what it does. Thanks Fully understood.  Your just looking for better accuracy.
You may have to change to one of the powders suggested by the posts just before this one. I shoot the 65gr Sierra Game King personally and get real nice results from both a 1 in 9 and a inexpensive 1 in 7 PSA using RL-15. Motor1 |
Thanks for the replies everyone. Awesome groups above, rfroese ! I'll pick up a pound of Reloader 15 and try that. I bet I'll get better results. I've read good things about R15 and almost picked some up when I was out of town at a Cabelas last week. I saw it and thought about it,..but I couldn't pass up getting 2# (the limit) of Bullseye.  . I've been looking for Bullseye for almost a year.
Thanks again, Duckdog |
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Fully understood. Your just looking for better accuracy.
You may have to change to one of the powders suggested by the posts just before this one. I shoot the 65gr Sierra Game King personally and get real nice results from both a 1 in 9 and a inexpensive 1 in 7 PSA using RL-15. Motor1 Quoted:
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I'd like to deer hunt a little with my AR, and an occasional coyote hunt. I'd keep the shot within 100yds or so. I can put the bullet where I need to at this distance but I thought I'd get better accuracy than what I am, especially after seeing what the Bronze can do. I don't crimp. I may load a batch with the 4895 just to see what it does. Thanks Fully understood. Your just looking for better accuracy.
You may have to change to one of the powders suggested by the posts just before this one. I shoot the 65gr Sierra Game King personally and get real nice results from both a 1 in 9 and a inexpensive 1 in 7 PSA using RL-15. Motor1 Electroplated bullets should not be crimped at all, or very minimal if at all. Every manufacturer is consistent with that advice. |
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Electroplated bullets should not be crimped at all, or very minimal if at all. Every manufacturer is consistent with that advice. Quoted:
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I'd like to deer hunt a little with my AR, and an occasional coyote hunt. I'd keep the shot within 100yds or so. I can put the bullet where I need to at this distance but I thought I'd get better accuracy than what I am, especially after seeing what the Bronze can do. I don't crimp. I may load a batch with the 4895 just to see what it does. Thanks Fully understood. Your just looking for better accuracy.
You may have to change to one of the powders suggested by the posts just before this one. I shoot the 65gr Sierra Game King personally and get real nice results from both a 1 in 9 and a inexpensive 1 in 7 PSA using RL-15. Motor1 Electroplated bullets should not be crimped at all, or very minimal if at all. Every manufacturer is consistent with that advice. I've crimped all 1000 of my Fusions, no problems at all with the couple hundred I've shot. Molon even states that the case mouth is crimped on the factory load in his range report. Molon Fusion Ammo Range Report |
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This is where we run into that crimp term again.
Yes the factory ammo may appear to be crimped because nearly all factory ammo is loaded into cases that have a mouth flair. The so called crimp on some of the ammo is only there to remove that flair. To establish an effective crimp on a smooth bullet the brass would have to be crushed into the bullet's surface. Motor1 |
| I am considering some work up some loads with 2230 / Xterminator since I have a bunch and one source that escapes me liked it for accuracy with 60-69gr bullets. Most of the ones I shot were with tac and varget using Sierra 63grsmp and 69 gr smk data as a base for reference. |
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Kinda-sorta, yes.
Rl-15 and varget are similar, but not identical. Lot to lot variations and other factors (ex. bullet construction) can change the specifics of the load. Accuracy can be OK with one and great with the other, or not. If you have enough data at your fingertips, you can start to extrapolate loads for bullets you have no data on and live to tell
Varget did Ok but was not anything exceptional as far as accuracy or velocity was concerned, with that bullet. Some bullets do much better with RL-15 Vs. Varget (Prvi 75gr OTM comes to mind). My interest in 2230 comes from Nosler publishing data for their 69gr CC with it as the most accurate powder. I will check a couple of sources and work up based on what I find. |
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Kinda-sorta, yes. Rl-15 and varget are similar, but not identical. Lot to lot variations and other factors (ex. bullet construction) can change the specifics of the load. Accuracy can be OK with one and great with the other, or not. If you have enough data at your fingertips, you can start to extrapolate loads for bullets you have no data on and live to tell
Varget did Ok but was not anything exceptional as far as accuracy or velocity was concerned, with that bullet. Some bullets do much better with RL-15 Vs. Varget (Prvi 75gr OTM comes to mind). My interest in 2230 comes from Nosler publishing data for their 69gr CC with it as the most accurate powder. I will check a couple of sources and work up based on what I find. Any update? Txl |
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Any update? Txl Quoted:
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Kinda-sorta, yes. Rl-15 and varget are similar, but not identical. Lot to lot variations and other factors (ex. bullet construction) can change the specifics of the load. Accuracy can be OK with one and great with the other, or not. If you have enough data at your fingertips, you can start to extrapolate loads for bullets you have no data on and live to tell
Varget did Ok but was not anything exceptional as far as accuracy or velocity was concerned, with that bullet. Some bullets do much better with RL-15 Vs. Varget (Prvi 75gr OTM comes to mind). My interest in 2230 comes from Nosler publishing data for their 69gr CC with it as the most accurate powder. I will check a couple of sources and work up based on what I find. Any update? Txl 26gr of TAC gets me 2959fps average at 2.27 OAL out of a 16in barrel .9 MOA |
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I've gone up to 26.4 with no significant issue. It is a 5.56 pressure load. You can use Ramshot 5.56 data for the ss109 for these (and probably go higher if you like) as they have less bearing surface. Quoted:
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Any pressure signs on that yama? Txl I've gone up to 26.4 with no significant issue. It is a 5.56 pressure load. You can use Ramshot 5.56 data for the ss109 for these (and probably go higher if you like) as they have less bearing surface. I have run to 25.5 gr TAC without pressure signs, seemed mild. Its going to be June before I get to work with the 2230/XTerminator. |
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I've gone up to 26.4 with no significant issue. It is a 5.56 pressure load. You can use Ramshot 5.56 data for the ss109 for these (and probably go higher if you like) as they have less bearing surface. Quoted:
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Any pressure signs on that yama? Txl I've gone up to 26.4 with no significant issue. It is a 5.56 pressure load. You can use Ramshot 5.56 data for the ss109 for these (and probably go higher if you like) as they have less bearing surface. Some limited chrono data I had in my book: 64 grain 223 Gold Dot over 26.4 TAC - 20" barrel 3093 3053 3072 |
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Great timing on this thread! Thanks for all the info. I'm going to work up loads on my first batch of fusions this weekend. I have IMR 4895, BLC-2, H335, and RL-15. I'll probably start with RL-15 and BLC-2 as that's what I have the most of. I've been up to 26gr of 335. No other experience with those listed powders. My experience says your likely safe with any data for the 64 PP or 62 SS109 as they both have more bearing surface and then working up from there. The rifle I was using to test these has a very forgiving chamber for pressure but (probably as a result of that) has a semi-slow barrel. Max 5.56 load for the SS109 showed only mild pressure signs (flat primers, no cratering, mild to no swiping) on a hot day. |
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I used 63gr SMP data
As long as I am throwing this link up Sierra AR 15 data |
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I shot some at the range today. Factory Fusion clocks at 2845 fps from my 20" BCM 1/7 twist barrel. 90 degrees in sunny FL 25.6 grains of Winchester 748 gives 2891 fps and gave a 7-shot group of 1.588" extreme spread and 0.529" mean radius at 100 yards. I think that will be my W748 load. I tested some Re-15 and got as high as 2771 fps with 25.1 grains. The group was okay, but I'm going to go higher and try to match the factory speed. |
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I think the 64 are the older ones, those are the ones I have. The 62 and 64 have been produced coextensively by atk for a number of years. The 62 is used in the fusion line and the 64 in the gold dot. Molon did an excellent comparison here. I bought a bunch of the 64's a long time ago from a guy who used to get oem speer products and sell them for cheap. There's little practical difference, but you obviously need to sort them to get accuracy. I remember when RMR had that lot (which was disclosed as mixed) and shook my head a little. I Might have bought a few more if they were consistent but I have no interest in sorting them with a scale. |
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Are there 64gr Fusion bullets? I'm sorting through my lot and it has 2 different bullets so far, 62 and 64 <a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/user/11724/media/stuff/DSCN0046_zpsmuuxksui.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/11724/stuff/DSCN0046_zpsmuuxksui.jpg</a> <a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/user/11724/media/stuff/DSCN0047_zpskn1njvth.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/11724/stuff/DSCN0047_zpskn1njvth.jpg</a> <a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/user/11724/media/stuff/DSCN2684_zpsiyaxrale.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/11724/stuff/DSCN2684_zpsiyaxrale.jpg</a> All the ones I bought a couple years ago(from RMR) were 64 gr. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 62gr Fusion (Page 1 of 2)
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