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Posted: 11/1/2016 7:55:37 PM EDT
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Trying to reload some 7.62x51 brass. A friend gave me a bunch of Lake City brass to try out. I am using a Lee Classic Cast single stage press with Lee deluxe rifle reloading dies for 308. I adjusted the dies per the instructions, lubricated the brass and attempted to size the cases. No go. I backed the die off a bit and could get the case all the way up but it was extremely stuff and difficult to retrieve the case. Definitely too much effort in my opinion. They also would not chamber smoothly in my bolt action rifle. So I decided to try some other cases. I tried MKE (ZQI?), PPU, and PMC. They were all very tough to size and would not chamber correctly in my rifle, very stiff to close/open the bolt. So far it seems like only commercial 308 will size correctly.
I have some M118 ammo that chambers and extracts silky smooth so I know this rifle is compatible with 7.62x51 (at least M118 anyway). I would like to be able to reload 7.62 brass just because it's everywhere but not sure what the issue is. Any ideas? |
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Hello,
Thanks for the replies. I started off with Hornady Oneshot (which has always worked well for me) but I figured I needed something different so I tried Lee's white case lube that comes in a toothpaste like tube. Same result as Oneshot, very tough to even start to size. I figured the LC cases were fired in a machinegun but still doesn't explain why I have the same result with MKE, PPU, and PMC brass (which were not fired in an MG). I do have an RCBS small base die I bought for this very reason but after adjusting the die following the instructions it's even tougher to resize than the regular die. |
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I use Dillons Case Lube exclusively anymore. I now keep the ingredients on hand to make my own when this batch runs out. I never did like LEEs case lube very much, I bought a couple of tubes over the years and ended up tossing them both after a couple of uses.
I recommend trying a slicker case lube first, and see if that makes sizing any better for you. |
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Quoted:
One shot is garbage. Throw it away. Use Dillon lube or make some lanolin/alcohol copy of it. There is a thread on this in the reloading section. Also consider changing to Forster dies. My thoughts as well. I only use OneShot for lubing pistol brass to make it run a little easier on the progressive. I use lanolin/iso alcohol lube with Hornady dies on single stage Hornady press for my 7.62 X 51 LC brass. I decap with Lee decapper, decrimp, then SSTL media tumble. Clean brass sizes much easier. Then first pass with 308 die without expander in leaving the die 1 turn high, then second pass with die set proper, with expander ball in. From there out, its a single pass, expander ball, die set to correct height. I do plan on starting to anneal every other firing. |
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Definitely a lube issue. I use the old RCBS lube and pad and it works great. I also use a RCBS Rockchucker II single stage press which gives excellent feedback and has a lot of power so yes I can confirm that sizing 7.62x51 brass the first time does take extra effort.
Try the Imperial lube I think your problem with go away. Motor |
| I ordered some imperial sizing wax so I will wait and see how that goes. I don't really see the need to change dies yet but will explore that route if I have to. I will try the method of sizing high without the decap/expander in and then sizing as normal after and see what the results are once the lube arrives. |
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You're on the right path. Half size then full size. But...............I got another idea.
Use a Lee universal de-capping die to knock out the primer, then clean the cases, wet tumble would be best, then use something like Homemade case lube to half size, then full size. I just got a batch of 7.62 that was a BI@#H to get resized, but, you only have to do it once. |
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I use Imperial Sizing Die Wax and have tried Hornady's clear wax ("Unique") and both work great for resizing tough brass. I consider spray lubes, any of them, to be insufficient to the task.
In the past I used RCBS case lube and an ink pad it works fine too. Use enough lube. It doesn't need to be on thick, but completely covered is a requirement. Keep the lube off the case shoulder. Very little is needed or wanted on the case neck. Too much lube or lube on the case shoulder will cause hydraulic dents to form. I think your Lee dies may contribute to your problems. Virtually any other brand is better. I have been happy with RCBS, Hornady and especially Forster and Redding dies. Lee's not so much. You usually have to set your press up to cam over when sizing surplus 7.62x51mm brass. U.S. G.I. M14's and machine guns have larger than standard chambers for reliability reasons and the weapons yank the crap out of the brass on ejection. This makes for fatter and longer expended cases. I screw my die down to touch the shell holder then turn it almost another 1/16 revolution so the shell holder jams hard against the die when resizing. This removes 100% of any play in the linkage and forces the case into the die as far as it can go. Another option is to remove .003" of material from the top of the shell holder. Ideally this should be done with a precision grinding machine. The home reloader can tape a piece of emery cloth to a plate of glass and sand it down using a circular motion changing directions as you go. Measure your progress with a set of calipers. This will allow the case to travel another .003" - .004" into the die. Ideally the shell holder should be modified rather than camming the press over. It will cause less stress on your dies and your press if you just modify the dies to get the case deeper into the die. Your problem is common when loading 7.62x51mm brass. |
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Quoted:
I use Imperial Sizing Die Wax and have tried Hornady's clear wax and both work great for resizing tough brass. I consider spray lubes, any of them, to be insufficient to the task. In the past I used RCBS case lube and an ink pad it works fine too. Use enough lube. It doesn't need to be on thick, but completely covered is a requirement. Keep the lube off the case shoulder. Very little is needed or wanted on the case neck. Too much lube or lube on the case shoulder will cause hydraulic dents to form. I think your Lee dies may contribute to your problems. Virtually any other brand is better. I have been happy with RCBS, Hornady and especially Forster and Redding dies. Lee's not so much. You usually have to set your press up to cam over when sizing surplus 7.62x51mm brass. U.S. G.I. M14's and machine guns have larger than standard chambers for reliability reasons and the weapons yank the crap out of the brass on ejection. This makes for fatter and longer expended cases. I screw my die down to touch the shell holder then turn it almost another 1/16 revolution so the shell holder jams hard against the die when resizing. This removes 100% of any play in the linkage and forces the case into the die as far as it can go. Another option is to remove .003" of material from the top of the shell holder. Ideally this should be done with a precision grinding machine. The home reloader can tape a piece of emery cloth to a plate of glass and sand it down using a circular motion changing directions as you go. Measure your progress with a set of calipers. This will allow the case to travel another .003" - .004" into the die. Ideally the shell holder should be modified rather than camming the press over. It will cause less stress on your dies and your press if you just modify the dies to get the case deeper into the die. Your problem is common when loading 7.62x51mm brass. Good information. I have been reading about this today in my spare time and it does appear to be quite common with military brass. Still not sure why MKE, PPU, and PMC are hard to resize. I will try the Imperial sizing wax but I think the easiest solution is to stick with commercial 308 brass for now. Luckily I bought some match brass and will probably end up using that exclusively, but wanted to be able to use military brass since there is an endless supply of it. As for the dies I have never had issues with Lee dies. I really like the bullet depth adjustment as well. I don't see any reason to try another brand unless these were definitely the problem. That said my reloading bench is multi colored so I am not a strictly one color user and would consider different dies if I thought that would help. I may pick up a different brand if I see a good deal on the EE for them just to see the difference, if any. I don't understand all the Lee hate really. I have also read about cam-over but my Lee classic cast will not cam over so I adjust following the die directions. I will then chamber the resized brass and adjust the die until it's smooth to chamber and extract. But I have to get to the point where they actually re-size correctly first. |
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Before making any more cases, make sure there is no flex in your press or bench mount, and purchase a cartridge length/headspace gauge to verify your shoulder is adequately set back. A Lyman gauge is $22 on amazon.
You can also use a tin of Kiwi Mink Oil as cheap and widely available sizing lube. |
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Quoted:
Nobody should buy a drop in gage nowadays. Hornady's Lock-N-Load headspace gage works across a large range of commonly loaded cartridges and is cheaper. It gives you measurements in .001" increments, something drop in gages are incapable of. I'd seen this item while beefing up my reloading equipment but didn't really study what it did. Your post prompted me to read up and watch some vids on it, and I think I'm going to get a kit. Especially for the price it looks like a good tool to improve consistency. Not sure I'll use it for most of my .223 AR stuff, but I think it will be quite useful for my .243 and .308 precision guns. |
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Quoted:
I'd seen this item while beefing up my reloading equipment but didn't really study what it did. Your post prompted me to read up and watch some vids on it, and I think I'm going to get a kit. Especially for the price it looks like a good tool to improve consistency. Not sure I'll use it for most of my .223 AR stuff, but I think it will be quite useful for my .243 and .308 precision guns. Quoted:
Quoted:
Nobody should buy a drop in gage nowadays. Hornady's Lock-N-Load headspace gage works across a large range of commonly loaded cartridges and is cheaper. It gives you measurements in .001" increments, something drop in gages are incapable of. I'd seen this item while beefing up my reloading equipment but didn't really study what it did. Your post prompted me to read up and watch some vids on it, and I think I'm going to get a kit. Especially for the price it looks like a good tool to improve consistency. Not sure I'll use it for most of my .223 AR stuff, but I think it will be quite useful for my .243 and .308 precision guns. The Hornady gage is not for consistency, it's for control. A fixed drop in gage causes the user to set the sizer die to the headspace determined by the gage maker. Probably 0.008 inches. A bushing gage with calipers allows control of the exact headspace desired. |
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Quoted:
The Hornady gage is not for consistency, it's for control. A fixed drop in gage causes the user to set the sizer die to the headspace determined by the gage maker. Probably 0.008 inches. A bushing gage with calipers allows control of the exact headspace desired. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nobody should buy a drop in gage nowadays. Hornady's Lock-N-Load headspace gage works across a large range of commonly loaded cartridges and is cheaper. It gives you measurements in .001" increments, something drop in gages are incapable of. I'd seen this item while beefing up my reloading equipment but didn't really study what it did. Your post prompted me to read up and watch some vids on it, and I think I'm going to get a kit. Especially for the price it looks like a good tool to improve consistency. Not sure I'll use it for most of my .223 AR stuff, but I think it will be quite useful for my .243 and .308 precision guns. The Hornady gage is not for consistency, it's for control. A fixed drop in gage causes the user to set the sizer die to the headspace determined by the gage maker. Probably 0.008 inches. A bushing gage with calipers allows control of the exact headspace desired. Maybe you misunderstood my meaning of consistency. To me you can't have control without consistency...but maybe we're just looking at it differently. |
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