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Posted: 5/30/2012 6:41:45 PM EDT
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I bought some of the Remington CTF Frangible 9mm Bullets at Midway and went looking for load data for Win 231 powder. Didn't find much.
A couple of sites recommend adding 30% to a frangible bullet's weight and using that corresponding FMJ bullet's charge weights. My Hornady 8th ed says 4.1 - 4.7 gr for 115 gr XTP/FMJs, and Lyman 49th ed suggests 3.5 - 4.9 gr for 115 gr JHPs. Since the lead core bullets are much denser than frangibles, the OALs listed for these (1.075" - 1.100") are probably too short. This is just a cheap fun target plinking round, sometimes with a suppressor, so ideally I'd get something accurate reliable and subsonic. I bought these frangibles because they were cheap in bulk ... and I'm sort of hoping for less splash from the beat-to-hell steel targets at my range. I was thinking of starting at 1.130" and 3.5 gr, and working up. Does this sound reasonable? Would like to stay with Win 231 since I have a bunch of it and it works for my other 9mm and .45acp loads. Thank you. [edit, typo] |
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No offense, but...Have you checked the online reloading data from any of the Powder manufacturers ? I just found some data for the 100gr Sinterfires with 231 and two other manufacturers with data for 90 and 100 gr frangible 9mm bullets. You should be able to use some of that info to help get you started. (Accurate, Ramshot and Hodgdon / IMR / Winchester. )
Not trying to be crabby, but this same question pops up every week... and I see he same answer ... every week. Again no offense intended. |
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Quoted:
No offense, but...Have you checked the online reloading data from any of the Powder manufacturers ? I just found some data for the 100gr Sinterfires with 231 and two other manufacturers with data for 90 and 100 gr frangible 9mm bullets. You should be able to use some of that info to help get you started. (Accurate, Ramshot and Hodgdon / IMR / Winchester. ) Not trying to be crabby, but this same question pops up every week... and I see he same answer ... every week. Again no offense intended. I checked Winchester's site and there wasn't any data for frangibles. Remington doesn't seem to have load data for these bullets, or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I haven't loaded frangibles before and the "Sinterfire" brand was not something I knew anything about. I looked on Hodgdon's web site but didn't make the connection between "SFIRE" and "frangible" until you mentioned that brand name. They have 231 data for 100 gr "reduced hazard flat points" (3.9 - 4.4 @ 1.140") which I suppose are probably similar to the 90 gr Remingtons. Nothing for 90 gr. Neither Accurate's nor Ramshot's published data has Win 231 data (no surprise) but they did note 1.120" for OAL for 90 and 100 gr frangibles. "Look it up" is a fine answer, but I thought it was apparent from my OP that I'd attempted that. I'm not looking for someone to do my math homework. I searched the forum and found this thread, asking essentially the same question as I am - and it produced some bickering but precious little actual information. So. It appears to me that, as I originally posted, 3.5 - 4.9 gr @ 1.130" is a reasonable starting place. Obviously I am uncertain, else I wouldn't be asking. I do appreciate your help. |
So I loaded some up and shot them today (Sig P226, 4.4" barrel)
Reasonably accurate. Consistently hit a 6" steel target from 25 yards. Guess I'll try some more powder. A little disappointed that I won't get subsonic velocities out of these, not too surprising considering how light the bullet is. |
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Quoted:
Interesting results, the velocities are probably as low as you are gonna get with any of the powders. Rem. lists one 9mm Disintegrator CTF factory load on its site and it is a +P loading with 100gr bullet at muzzle velocity of 1300fps. Did your Sig cycle ok ? No, didn't cycle at all at 3.5 or 3.8, at 4.1 and 4.4 the cases stovepiped. My guess is I'll end up somewhere in the 1200-1300 fps range as I work up. |
Yup, I wondered about the slide. Most other threads on goggle spoke of that. And BTW Bear Creek Bullets , coated lead bullets- a lot less smoke and cleaning, make for good cheap practice rounds. They may not be suitable for your suppressor, but as far as "lead" bullets go they are my only choice 
Again little if any lead clean-up and smoke. Phone orders only , free shipping over $110 as per the 2011 price list. They don't have a website but Google 'em nothing but good stuff written about them. |
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I searched all over for reloading data for the CTF 's including calling Remington and Alliant. But no joy. I ended up using Frangiblebullets.com and Lyman's as references for my starting point using Unique powder since that is what I have on hand.
I started with Unique 4.8 grains OAL= 1.125 Mixed brass CCI 500 small primers Glock 19C This load was too light and didn't cycle the slide. 5.0gr was better, but still had two failure to feed/cycle 5.2gr had no issues but group was 5x5 inches at 10 yds 5.4gr was better, group was 3x3 inches at 10 yds. |
Loaded up a few more ...
Used up the rest of my Remington loading 147gr subs before I remembered I wanted to test some more 90gr frangibles, oops, so I used some Winchester cases. No malfunctions at 4.9 gr. I think I'll load some more at 4.7 and see if I can get reliable functioning. The other problem I ran into was chipping the midsection of a bullet after putting the round through my Lee factory crimp die. Guess I'll have to back off on that a bit. |
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I loaded these into 9mm for a SIG 239 and S&W M&P. The SIG has a lighter recoil spring and is easier to function. I want a load that will cycle both while stone cold reliable without beating up the SIG.
I use 231 and 1 1/2 primers. I started at 4.1 grains 231, which did not begin to function the S&W and erratically functioned the SIG. 5.1 grains of 231 did not lock the slide on either, but marginally functioned the SIG with stovepipes on both. Next time at the range in August I will start with 5.3 grains and end up at 5.7 grains. This leaves very little room in the case for a bullet. |
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