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Posted: 2/26/2010 2:01:32 PM EDT
| Im thinking about getting a 9mm conversion for my 16. How do they run are they reliable or am I going the route of my $850 22cal paper weight I bought last time. Steer me in the right direction guys, Thanks |
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Quality 9mm uppers run 100% in full-auto. Maybe 110%.
That said, they are tougher on the lower, so these days the 9mm uppers sit in the safe and my Uzi handles all the 9mm duties. 
If I only owned one MG it would be the '16, and I would use it with 9mm as well. I would just be very careful. In repose, with her DOE 7" 9mm upper: 
In action, with her LRM M169 integrally suppressed upper (IIRC, the vid was shot by Lee Minor himself): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSywfVdz_0g |
I've shot both an RRA 9mm and a colt 9mm upper. I ran it with a RR, not a RDIAS, but it would work just as well. I went with the Hahn bottom loading mag block, takes colt mags, and you can get a beta mag with a colt tower, that is all sorts of a good time. 
Laptops love it!!! 
Death to laptops!!!! |
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Do .22 kits wear the lowers as much as the 9mm's? I cant see how the little .22's would do that much damage... I'm assuming you are referring to this statement, "Getting a 9mm Colt setup to run 100% is easy unlike 22lr uppers/kits." right? .22LR systems are FAR LESS wear and tear on the receivers due to the low recoil and energy of the round. The problem is that the kits rarely run 100% on FA because of "low recoil/energy" of the round. 9MM setups run like a sewing machine, usually right out of the gate as long at the correct buffer is used AND again, if you use a ramped bolt, the wear is WAY LESS than if you do not even if it's more than a .223/5.56 setup. Unramped 9MM bolts are bad news in RR's. I personally know of 2 that have had pin hole issues because of this practice. Nothing M60Joe can't fix up, but unwanted none the less. |
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I have a Kuehl upper (actually 2) that works great. I generally clean everything about every 1K rounds which is easy to shoot in an afternoon and hey it is CHEAP! I would say that I will get one jam out of 3 mags that I shoot using Blackdog mag. The jams are usually just due to the round not going off - cheap .22 ammunition. All is required is to eject the bad round and chamber a new round.
I didn't think that the .22's put much (if any) strain on the receivers, but I just wanted to run that by a couple of you guys for input. |
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Can someone suggest a turn key 9mm setup that works with no or minimal tuning with a RDIAS. Links would be very much appreciated. I don't know of anyone who has a turn key setup per say, but I know brownells offers a conversion pack that comes with a hahn magblock, buffer, and hammer. All you need to add is an upper. And maybe some KNS pins, but its a RDIAS, so may not worry about that. But I've run a couple of colt 9mm uppers, RRA 9mm uppers, and one that was put together with a TROS 3lug barrel. All ran fine with the RDIAS. |
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Thanks for the reply!
Apologies in advance for the neophyte questions. It seems that all I would need is the following: 1. 9mm barreled upper. 2. Carrier 3. Buffer 4. Mag Block 5. Magazines Now for the neophyte questions: 1. Is there a specific FA carrier I need to get? 2. Is the upper/carrier magazine specific? 3. Who makes a 3-lug barreled upper? |
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1. Is there a specific FA carrier I need to get? 2. Is the upper/carrier magazine specific? 3. Who makes a 3-lug barreled upper? 1. You'll need a 9mm FA bolt for the Colt system, or a 9mm FA carrier for the Olympic system. 2. Two major types - Colt system and Olympic system - each generally takes different mags, although aftermarket work can change that. Olympic uses sten mags with a welded-on magblock, or unmodified stens with the proper mag block, while Colt system uses Colt or modified Uzi mags. 3. don't know offhand |
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xr100-I went with the hahn bottom loading mag block. It takes colt pattern mags, and can also use surplus uzi mags if you cut the notch in the mag to work with the mag release. The reason I did this is because I wanted to be able to use a beta mag, which only comes with the colt pattern tower. That was the choice behind it. They make a couple of mag blocks that will let you use unmodified uzi mags, which if you have no interest in a beta mag, then I'd suggest using one of those. VM hightech makes some nice ones that use the uzi mags. As far as what colt mags I use, I've actually had good luck with the pro mags. 32rds, they are plastic, but I'm not jumping out of a plane any time soon. They are cheap, about $16 each, and out of the 10 I have, I had issues with one, which I mailed back to promag, and they sent me a replacement.
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Are all ramped bolts(CMMG, Spikes CMMG Enhanced) FA bolts? There is no F/A 9mm bolt. They are all built the same. If you get a bolt ramped, it'll put less stress on the FCG, but the bolts are the same. |
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(snip) There is no F/A 9mm bolt. They are all built the same. If you get a bolt ramped, it'll put less stress on the FCG, but the bolts are the same. Not exactly true. When Colt first developed the 9mm conversion in the '80s, they created two separate bolt carriers, pictured below. After a few years, Colt dropped production of the semi 9mm bolt assemblies and started shipping all their 9mm rifles and conversion kits with FA assemblies. AFAIK, all of the current clone makers use the FA bolt carrier assembly for all applications. But it is useful to know that there are semi assemblies out there, if you are looking for one to use in an FA application. 
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| Okay I did it, I ordered the 7.5 flat top upper from RRA with the hahn bottom loading mag block and a couple pmags. What's the rate of fire y'all are getting? I'd like to get this thing a slow as possible want it to sound like a sewing machine. Oh yeah, is there anything else I should get to help me tune it? |
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Okay I did it, I ordered the 7.5 flat top upper from RRA with the hahn bottom loading mag block and a couple pmags. What's the rate of fire y'all are getting? I'd like to get this thing a slow as possible want it to sound like a sewing machine. Oh yeah, is there anything else I should get to help me tune it? OK, some thoughts from someone who's been running 9mm conversions on a '16 since the early '90s .... The first thing is when you get your upper and mag block, install both and make sure the ejector rod of your block is as close to, and parallel to, the bolt carrier assembly as possible. The front point of the ejector has a very small target, and must contact a very small place on the rim of the 9mm case. Unless it is close against the bolt (but NOT binding), it will not throw the empty case out of the receiver, creating jams. This will take a little tweaking in every case. I've seen ejectors where the rod itself was aligned perfectly but the point was so rounded, it still let the case remain within the receiver. In that case, you need to carefuly file the ejector point flat so that it will kick the case out in the correct direction. Too much filing will shorten the rod where it won't do it's job, so file very carefully and slowly, testing in between every shot. Once you get it set up, it'll run 100% for a long time. Maybe you'll be lucky and it will run 100% out-of-the-box, but if not, try the approach above. HTH! |
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Tony, I have a Spike's 9mm upper and a Hahn top loader...this thing hates flat points...only runs round nose ammo. Am I alone in this issue? I have not tried to run it on the RR...I figure it is fun enough on semi. Shawdawg No, you're not alone. Many owners have run into that –– it's mostly a problem with the feed ramp on the front of the mag block. I've seen some that were polished/reshaped, and that did help. Keep in mind that the AR was never designed by Gene Stoner to fire 9mm. Instead, we're dealing with a quick fix thrown together by Colt when they were asked to produce a 9mm subgun. They had to adapt an existing magazine and chose the Uzi, but the feed angle and positioning in the magwell are not optimal. Since it was intended for military contracts, Colt saw no need to tweak it to run anything other than standard pistol-issue FMJ. I generally stick to 115-gr or 124-gr ammo, since my only suppressed 9mm rig (LRM M169) has a ported barrel that bleeds velocity down to subsonic –– I have occasionally run 147 through it and it gets even more quiet, and it still feeds OK. But my mag block is one of the long-out-of-production Crossfire blocks, which IMHO is the best ever made –– wouldn't trade it for anything. |
| Crossfire block...can you elaborate what is different about them as I've never heard of it. My Colt 9mm Carbine and SMG both have the 2-piece mag blocks and when I bought my extra 16" Colt 9mm upper 12 years ago I picked up one of the Colt 1-piece mag blocks that I believe you load from the top. |
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Crossfire block...can you elaborate what is different about them as I've never heard of it. My Colt 9mm Carbine and SMG both have the 2-piece mag blocks and when I bought my extra 16" Colt 9mm upper 12 years ago I picked up one of the Colt 1-piece mag blocks that I believe you load from the top. The Crossfire block has a couple of things going for it: ––It goes in from the bottom of the magwell but there is nothing you need to tighten to hold it in –– instead, it is retained in by a spring-tensioned ball that rolls up inside the front wall of the magwell, plus the mag catch itself (you just adjust the mag catch so unless it is fully depressed, flush with the receiver wall, the block stays in while the mags drop out). The block fits tightly enough around the mag catch that you can adjust the mag catch to hold it in, yet all other mags (9mm or milspec 5.56) still drop free easily. ––The ejector arm is pinned in tightly, so there is zero wobble. It's also very well-made. The combo means that once adjusted to your bolt assembly, it always ejects the cases and you don't get those "empty-case jams" that plague 9mm uppers with other blocks. ––The front of the block is perfectly ramped. Mine feeds hollowpoints or flat-tips as well as it does round-nose. With every other block I've tried, HP and flattips are hit-or-miss for feeding jams, and IMHO that is due to varying ramp angles. The downside is, the Florida gunsmith who made them –– they were built on new Colt factory two-piece mags, welded together and greatly modded –– stopped making them, oh, about ten years ago. The very last batch of 200 were hard-chromed; mine isn't one of those (sigh!) but I'm always on the lookout for a silver one. A couple of other companies tried to clone the Crossfire design but none work as well as the original. HTH.
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If no one has any pix of a Crossfire, I'll take some of mine when I get a chance.
As far as price ... well, IIRC they were $185 new, ten years ago ... but I guess the price depends on what you would pay. To a seller who doesn't know about their reliability, you might get it for $100. Mine is the only 100% reliable-when-set-up-properly mag block I've ever owned. If I ever lost it, I would prolly pay $300 to get another. Maybe more than that. What's the market value of reliability? Then again, I've never met an owner willing to part with his.
FWIW, unlike one-size-fits-all blocks, these were spec'd to fit very snugly in Colt M16A1 magwells. I had to open up the magwell a bit in my NIB 6933 before it would fit. IMHO, the tight fit is one of the reasons they work so well. Combined with the block's rigid ejector arm, once installed, there is zero play. So if you have a tighter-than normal magwell, it might take some filing on the block to get it to fit. And if you have a loose magwell, you might need to do some shimming –– it would still work, but possibly not as reliably. Edited to add pix (yeah, I know I need to clean it): 
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How hard is it to find the LRM m169 uppers? Lee Minor sold the biz a few years ago. The new owner updated the M169 design and was selling them exclusively though Anvil Arms ... but Anvil went out of biz a few months ago. I don't know who, if anyone, is handling sales now.
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How hard is it to find the LRM m169 uppers? Lee Minor sold the biz a few years ago. The new owner updated the M169 design and was selling them exclusively though Anvil Arms ... but Anvil went out of biz a few months ago. I don't know who, if anyone, is handling sales now.
I pretty much bought my M169 because of the mad ravings of Mr. K... watch out, you'll fall in love with it if you buy one. 
*Now I just can't wait to get it matched up with my inbound PAWS RR. Thanks Tony! |
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How hard is it to find the LRM m169 uppers? Lee Minor sold the biz a few years ago. The new owner updated the M169 design and was selling them exclusively though Anvil Arms ... but Anvil went out of biz a few months ago. I don't know who, if anyone, is handling sales now.
I pretty much bought my M169 because of the mad ravings of Mr. K... watch out, you'll fall in love with it if you buy one.
*Now I just can't wait to get it matched up with my inbound PAWS RR. Thanks Tony! You're welcome. I am very experienced at spending other people's money. Or so my wife tells me.
FWIW, LRM Technologies LLC is presently finalizing their updated Vidar 10/22 integral suppressor. Once that is done and production is rolling, Chuck says he will get the M169 production back up and running without any involvement from Anvil Arms. (The suppressor module on the AA M169's was manufactured and registered by LRM Tech, so there is no interruption in tech support or warranty service for the ones AA sold.) So M169s will be back, but it may be awhile ... sit tight. NFA requires patience, right? |
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