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Posted: 7/14/2010 3:52:46 PM EDT
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I may have a line on an AM180 at at decent price.
I don't know much about them and was wondering what you guys think about them. 39 |
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The American 180 is nearly a forum unto itself.
I can say the following: 1. The manual (it's labeled for "rifle" but it's for the SMG) is at http://www.stevespages.com/pdf/american_180_rifle.pdf. 2. Have it sent to Val Cooper of E&L. He is THE man for the American 180. There is NO substitute. Not even a close one that's cheaper. It's Val or you're wasting your money and time and risking your 180 over nothing. 3. Lubricants: Tetra lube seems to weaken and discolor the plastic mags. Don't know why. Use something else. Actually, talk with Val Cooper to find out what he recommends. Speaking of mags... 4. Mags: Mag bases will give you fits. Go with quality metal bases but be prepared to file them to function 100%. Polymer ones work but can crack. Early ones blow but later ones are great. One fellow I know told me to reverse the retaining ring. (This holds the upper and mag base together.) This does stop vertical movement. Once reversed, tighten all mag screws so the mag won't rotate. Then unscrew each screw half a turn until the mag just barely turns without binding/getting stuck. Now, let's talk about what goes into the mags..... 5. Ammunition: Wal-Mart Federal bulk packs work great. Winchester and Remington bulk packs do not, though I saw one guy going to down with Dynapoints. Many of the problems with the AM 180 come from low power and/or inconsistent ammunition. I recommend buying and keeping a few recoil springs ready. Many shooters keep one or two of different lengths (stock spring, spring with a coil missing, another with two coils missing, etc.) to swap out until their .22 of choice functions 100%. As for loading the mags... 6. Call M60Joe and see if he still makes/stocks American 180 feeders. If so, get one. You will thank me. Finally, speaking of shooting.... 7. Suppressors: While .22lr, the sheer RPM of this gun heats up cans. You need a tough as nails suppressor that's made to handle VOLUME and FULL AUTO fire. Hell, I'd call each manufacturer and explain that you need a .22 can for an American 180 SMG instead of just buying outright. Get some recommendations! This is also one of the ONLY situations that DEMANDS a user maintainable (disassembly OK) can. The ONLY exception might be a YHM Wraith .22. Maybe. Again, call 'em first. Mike |
Wow, Mike! I had no idea you knew that much about AM180's! 
About all I can add is .... ––AM180s are famous for "emptying" their mags on the ground when you make the slightest mistake. And since the mags hold 165-275 rounds each, a suddenly, accidentally dumped mag is both a major reloading project, and a total mess to clean up. Get really, really familiar with how things fit and how they work, and pay attention when you are shooting or about to shoot. ––AM180s also are famous for OOB (out-of-battery) detonations that scatter hot brass everywhere. So wear a longsleeved shirt, and watch the placement of your left arm. They are open-bolt MGs, and OOBs are largely caused by lead buildup in the chamber, so your 180 can be running along just fine until you shoot one too many rounds, the next round can't chamber, and gets set off ... hot brass shards everywhere downwards. Despite the two drawbacks I mentioned, the American 180 is by far the most reliable .22 RF machine gun. The drum mags gave it the nickname "spaghetti gun" and it is well-earned –– it just sprays and sprays forever. It is unique among MGs and a hoot to shoot, plus cheaper to dump huge volumes of rounds than any other MG. 
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Quoted:
Wow, Mike! I had no idea you knew that much about AM180's!
About all I can add is .... ––AM180s are famous for "emptying" their mags on the ground when you make the slightest mistake. And since the mags hold 165-275 rounds each, a suddenly, accidentally dumped mag is both a major reloading project, and a total mess to clean up. Get really, really familiar with how things fit and how they work, and pay attention when you are shooting or about to shoot. ––AM180s also are famous for OOB (out-of-battery) detonations that scatter hot brass everywhere. So wear a longsleeved shirt, and watch the placement of your left arm. They are open-bolt MGs, and OOBs are largely caused by lead buildup in the chamber, so your 180 can be running along just fine until you shoot one too many rounds, the next round can't chamber, and gets set off ... hot brass shards everywhere downwards. Despite the two drawbacks I mentioned, the American 180 is by far the most reliable .22 RF machine gun. The drum mags gave it the nickname "spaghetti gun" and it is well-earned –– it just sprays and sprays forever. It is unique among MGs and a hoot to shoot, plus cheaper to dump huge volumes of rounds than any other MG. I got to learn from a very long phone call with Val and from talking with other owners. That and I've probably been a gnat's ass away from buying one for a few years now. 
Yup, the AM 180 drums have a habit of becoming a flying saucer propelled by a steady stream of brass. It's always good for a laugh so long as it's not your drum that's farting out 275 rounds and going airborne! They're also definitely known for those %$#@! OOB detonations. I've seen a few leave some nasty marks on shooters' left wrists, hands, and arms. Definitely wear a long sleeve shirt or a wrist guard (ask around at bowling stores) if it's just too hot for long sleeves. This issue nearly always occurs due to the gun getting too dirty to chamber properly, so cleaning after each outing is a REQUIREMENT. You will need to keep an even closer eye on things if you're shooting suppressed. As with any .22lr MG, the AM 180 can be tempermental. You just need to know how to treat it right (and sent it to Val Cooper of E&L if it hasn't been there already–– you WILL thank yourself MANY times over for doing so). Successful AM180 owners also are ready to dedicate TIME to be familiar with its relatively unorthadox pan-fed system. I won't go as far as Tony by saying that the AM180 is THE most reliable .22 MG out there, but I will say that it's either the 180 or a Norrell 10/22 with QUALITY mags. Both guns can keep running if you treat them right, use the correct ammo, and have quality mags. ...but major points to go anything that can shoot 275 rounds for around five or seven bucks. 
Mike |
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Just remembered something else...
If you take a look on the inside left front (toward the chamber) area of the AM180 receiver, it will probably be beat on a well-used gun. This beating happens when the bolt slams home on an empty chamber after you've either expended all of your ammo OR when the very last few rounds fail to feed (not at all uncommon). The best way to avoid this is to start by filling the drum with five snap caps. That way, you'll get 270 rounds of shooting but will protect your receiver from unnecessary damage. It's a small sacrifice that'll pay off BIG in years to come. Mike |
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Mike, you are correct, Norrell's are pretty cool and reliable ... but I've never found a really high-cap 10/22 mag that was reliable.
OTOH, an AM180 with a 275-round drum that you can empty in under 14 seconds .... well .... sheesh! That's what defines a machine gun, right? Yeeeee-hah!
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Quoted:
Mike, you are correct, Norrell's are pretty cool and reliable ... but I've never found a really high-cap 10/22 mag that was reliable. OTOH, an AM180 with a 275-round drum that you can empty in under 14 seconds .... well .... sheesh! That's what defines a machine gun, right? Yeeeee-hah! Yup, the mags are a sore spot with any 10/22 conversion. I've had luck with steel lips mags and with Tactical Innovations solid aluminum mags. The 14 second dump being the very definition..? Well, I'd argue for a beltgun as the definition, but it's still pretty damn cool.
Mike |
Not to get too off topic but the Lakeside LM7/Razorback may have the AM180 beat for 22LR firepower with their 500 round belt.
I recently got a new Razorback bolt for my LM7 and the thing runs perfectly again. I fired over 800 rounds about a week ago with no malfunctions using cheap Federal and Blazer. All full auto firing doing some bursts and long strings. 300 of those rounds was with a 5.5" barrel un-suppressed. I was never able to run that short barrel before unless I had a suppressor mounted with the original LM7 bolt. This new bolt in my LM7 seems to have been the trick. I'm thinking about ordering one of those 500 round belts in a month or so. |
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amphibian, back when I bought my LM7, I also bought a complete 100-foot roll of belt material. You might want to check if they still have bulk belting material available in rolls. I did the math at the time and if I added a starter tab to it as one complete belt, it would have held about 3,500 rounds.
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