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Posted: 7/15/2010 2:24:16 PM EDT
Hey guys. I have approx 1000 new LC .223 cases that I am prepping and am hating it. The main part I am hating is the chamfering and deburring. I have a Lee zip trim and really am not happy with it. The cases seem not to stay centered in the case holder. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone have one and not mind it? I have sore fingers.
I am willing to spend $50-$100 on another alternative. Any suggestions?? I know about the Giraud trimmer.  Would love it but can't afford it right now. Thanks.
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| I had a lee zip trim until the spring sprung, I had bought the 3 jaw chuck for it and after tearing the zip trim apart, I was able to use it by holding on to it with a case inserted and used my possum hollow trimmer along with the drill adapter, and it made for easy no frills trimming and deburring, it still takes alot of time but at least I don't have sore fingers. |
| Some people offer case prep services like HERE. All you have to do is ship it and wait. |
| Welcome to my world. I have the zip trim too and finally got frustrated with it. It works but it is a bit flimsy. I finally jerry-rigged the parts off the zip trimmer to my drill press and came up with a way to use it and save my fingers the stress of attempting to lock that zip trim shell holder down only to still have the shell slip. Next time I set it up I'll take some pictures and post 'em. |
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Quote from website. "The trimming cut is straight and smooth, no chamfer." Would still have to chamfer and deburr, so that wouldn't work. Also, I'm not trying to get out of the work. I just want it to be a little more easy. |
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Quote from website. "The trimming cut is straight and smooth, no chamfer." Would still have to chamfer and deburr, so that wouldn't work. Also, I'm not trying to get out of the work. I just want it to be a little more easy. I am guessing that they use a Dillon Trimmer like I do which doesn't need to be deburred or chamfered when loading boat tail bullets, though you may have an issue with flat base bullets. |
| For just a few more dollars than your $100.00 budget you can have RCBS trim mate. It's what I use for primer pocket uniform, chamfer, debur, deburr flash holes and brush inside case. Has five stations rotating simultaneously. Spending less than 10 seconds per case. Or you can buy tools that will chuck into your power drill. RCBS is the berries for me. Mic and trim as needed with Hornady cam lock trimmer. Now your up to $200.00 and no more cramped fingers. |
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Hey guys. I have approx 1000 new LC .223 cases that I am prepping and am hating it. The main part I am hating is the chamfering and deburring. I have a Lee zip trim and really am not happy with it. The cases seem not to stay centered in the case holder. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone have one and not mind it? I have sore fingers.
I am willing to spend $50-$100 on another alternative. Any suggestions?? I know about the Giraud trimmer. Would love it but can't afford it right now. Thanks.One of the hardest things to do in this computer age is to have patience. You will have to have a little if 100 bucks is your limit right now, but the nice thing about the Forster way, is you can do it in phases, and phase 1 isn't too shabby, especially considering what Phase 2 can do for you next Christmas!.
There are other ways to trim fast, but this is the Forster Way! Phase 1 
Forster Original Trimmer $75 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=614276 
Forster Chamfer/Deburr tool $12.50 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=364181 
Forster Chamfer/Deburr base $22 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=492986 Total $109.50 sorry 9.50 over your $100. You may have to take a day and sell some Koolaid! 
Phase 2 
Use this and an old drill to make it powered. $12.80http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=644779 
This slides over the shaft of the trimmer and tightens with a set screw. (you can also get one in .308 and .243...phase 3?) 
3-way .223 carbide cutter.$55 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=220395 (Now your Forster Original Trimmer is a Powered trimmer that trims, chamfers, and deburrs at the same time...Just like a Giraud.) Phase 2 will set you back another $80....next Christmas? Uh, you'll probably want to add another $55 cutter for .308 for your birthday...who ever said Reloading equipment expense ever stops?
I average trimming/chamfering/deburring 10 cases in sixty seconds with mine see pictures below. (you don't have to make the slightly more complicated vertical mount...I did it to save space and since raising and lowering is foot operated, it's one-handed and fast. 
Oh! And by the way, the simple little piano wire bent and mounted behind the case in the first picture, positively ejects the case into the lower bin every time! (shown in picture above.) With the Giraud...you are the ejector.
I've have modified and simplified the tool a tad to improve it since these photos were taken, and I've been working on a video...yeah, to prove the thing works! I do love the Giraud. It's a wonderful tool for those able to get one...and I would've, except that my older hands have pounded thousands of nails, run 50 jack hammers, and have done many other similarly fun tasks, and these days after using a friends Giraud, I decided it's a tool for younger folk. My fingers and hands ached after only 50 rounds. That's why I took matters into my own...hands. Excuse the pun.
I will say that I'm really enjoying case prep...finally. |
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I use the Possum Hollow trimmer with their power adapter. The Possum Hollow trimmer works like a pencil sharpener. Then I use the Hornady Chamfer and deberer with their power adapter. I chuck all of this in a $60 dollar drill press from Harbor Freight. Any ole drill will work, but I suspect it would wear a drill out rather quickly. The Drill press has a large enough motor that it can just sit and run. This is certainly not as quick as a Giraurd, but not having to to lock each case in a shell holder saves a ton of time.
The Giraurd will be my next purchase. |
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/P5010436.jpg Took me awhile to save up the money, but it's a great trimmer. Using my 2 hand method, I can trim 1k of 223 in a little more than 1/2 hour. Wow! My 10 per minute on my powered outfit, one-handed, averages to 1 every 6 seconds, or 300 in 30 minutes. Of course that includes finding a case in the in tray and orienting it in my clumsy fingers. The guy who demos the Giraud on Youtube must be as clumsy as me. The clumsy demo? You'll have to show us/explain your 2 hand method!
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/P5010436.jpg Took me awhile to save up the money, but it's a great trimmer. Using my 2 hand method, I can trim 1k of 223 in a little more than 1/2 hour. Wow! My 10 per minute on my powered outfit, one-handed, averages to 1 every 6 seconds, or 300 in 30 minutes. Of course that includes finding a case in the in tray and orienting it in my clumsy fingers. The guy who demos the Giraud on Youtube must be as clumsy as me. The clumsy demo? You'll have to show us/explain your 2 hand method!
I hold a case in each hand, as one hand is finished trimming other hand is ready to insert the next case. First hand has dropped trimmed case and picked up another, waiting for the other hand to finish trimming. I use two trays in front of trimmer full of "to be trimmed brass", a large box in a drawer for trimmed cases to drop into. The real secret is to have the tunes going, and the coffee close by.
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/P5010436.jpg Took me awhile to save up the money, but it's a great trimmer. Using my 2 hand method, I can trim 1k of 223 in a little more than 1/2 hour. Wow! My 10 per minute on my powered outfit, one-handed, averages to 1 every 6 seconds, or 300 in 30 minutes. Of course that includes finding a case in the in tray and orienting it in my clumsy fingers. The guy who demos the Giraud on Youtube must be as clumsy as me. The clumsy demo? You'll have to show us/explain your 2 hand method!
I hold a case in each hand, as one hand is finished trimming other hand is ready to insert the next case. First hand has dropped trimmed case and picked up another, waiting for the other hand to finish trimming. I use two trays in front of trimmer full of "to be trimmed brass", a large box in a drawer for trimmed cases to drop into. The real secret is to have the tunes going, and the coffee close by.
I just finished up 2K and it took me about 2 1/2 hrs which included sizing, depriming, trimming, chamfering, clean pockets and tumbling off lube, thanks Doug G !!! |
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After trimming 40 cases and looking at about 3K more, I bought a Giraud Here Spendy, why yes, yes it is; however at my age with my bad hands, I am no way in hell trimming 3K cases.
The good news: I trimmed probably 2,000 cases in something more than an hour. Now - the crimps - OMG they are nasty. Hornady power/hand held was a waste. Someone gave me a RCBS swager. I despise crimped ammo~ 
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/P5010436.jpg Took me awhile to save up the money, but it's a great trimmer. Using my 2 hand method, I can trim 1k of 223 in a little more than 1/2 hour. Wow! My 10 per minute on my powered outfit, one-handed, averages to 1 every 6 seconds, or 300 in 30 minutes. Of course that includes finding a case in the in tray and orienting it in my clumsy fingers. The guy who demos the Giraud on Youtube must be as clumsy as me. The clumsy demo? You'll have to show us/explain your 2 hand method!
I hold a case in each hand, as one hand is finished trimming other hand is ready to insert the next case. First hand has dropped trimmed case and picked up another, waiting for the other hand to finish trimming. I use two trays in front of trimmer full of "to be trimmed brass", a large box in a drawer for trimmed cases to drop into. The real secret is to have the tunes going, and the coffee close by.
Questions Questions! I noticed in the YouTube vid that the guy turns the brass bit....is he overdoing that? Too much of that would certainly eat into the time.
I'm asuming the cutter is carbide, and notice in the vid, the cutter is moving a pretty good clip. I have improved my Forster contraption, and can now set and vary the motor speed to anything I want without having to pull the trigger in the screwgun. (Simple, I just wired in a momentary switch and can preset the trigger to any position with a hose clamp.) I can speed things up alot by increasing motor speed. Which brings the next question: Won't high speed burn the carbide cutter tips. Do you know how long before Giraud cutters need to be touched-up or even replaced? Forster's cutters are carbide too, and in the Forster Youtube vid, showing their new 3-way cutter, the guy mentions that the only thing that would dull the cutter is burning at high speed....thus my question/concern about cutter speed on either product. |
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/P5010436.jpg Took me awhile to save up the money, but it's a great trimmer. Using my 2 hand method, I can trim 1k of 223 in a little more than 1/2 hour. Wow! My 10 per minute on my powered outfit, one-handed, averages to 1 every 6 seconds, or 300 in 30 minutes. Of course that includes finding a case in the in tray and orienting it in my clumsy fingers. The guy who demos the Giraud on Youtube must be as clumsy as me. The clumsy demo? You'll have to show us/explain your 2 hand method!
I hold a case in each hand, as one hand is finished trimming other hand is ready to insert the next case. First hand has dropped trimmed case and picked up another, waiting for the other hand to finish trimming. I use two trays in front of trimmer full of "to be trimmed brass", a large box in a drawer for trimmed cases to drop into. The real secret is to have the tunes going, and the coffee close by.
Questions Questions! I noticed in the YouTube vid that the guy turns the brass bit....is he overdoing that? Too much of that would certainly eat into the time.
I'm asuming the cutter is carbide, and notice in the vid, the cutter is moving a pretty good clip. I have improved my Forster contraption, and can now set and vary the motor speed to anything I want without having to pull the trigger in the screwgun. (Simple, I just wired in a momentary switch and can preset the trigger to any position with a hose clamp.) My question is this: Won't high speed burn the carbide cutter tips. Do you know how long before Giraud cutters need to be touched-up or even replaced? Forster's cutters are carbide too, and in the Forster Youtube vid, showing their new 3-way cutter, the guy mentions that the only thing that would dull the cutter is burning at high speed....thus my question/concern about cutter speed on either product. I live about 20mins from Doug's Shop and picked up my trimmer in person and was lucky enough to hang out and get a personal trimmer training session, the trimmer blade is carbide and will according to Doug last a very, very long time if you don't force the brass in and if you manage to wear down one you have 2 left as their are (3) cutters on each blade all you do is loosen and rotate to the new cutter, the twisting you do is to make up for any runout you have on the brass, all you have to do is give a quick 1/2 twist, Doug told me he had some customers that had trimmed over 10K cases on the same blade without issues, I will say that it's not the cheapest way to trim cases but is the easiest to adjust and is quality made and is made right here in the Good OL' USA, I for one will never part with mine and as far as time it cut my time in half from using my rotary trimmer and saved my hands a ton of soreness |
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One more question: How long does it take to change calibers? (the $30 for each caseholder you want to buy is reasonable enough)
The Forster 3-way comes in only 3 sizes so far, and they are $55 bucks a shot, but the $55 buys a new cutter on each one, plus the .30 cal cutter will work on any.30 cal. round...same with the .243 size, or the .22 size. That means if you buy all three sizes you have 3 cutters to share the cutting time, rather than many case holder/one cutter. On the Forster other calibers, even pistol, can be power trimmed as well, you just need a Trim Mate handy because, without a dedicated 3-way slipped over the orig. cutter, you trim only. Giraud performance is hard to meet let alone beat...and I wouldn't try if it wasn't for arthritic hands and fingers...and a love to tinker....and then there is the price.
Is the Giraud worth the price? No Question...but there are those who can't swing, or justify the one time $450 hit. I think the O.P. falls into that category right now. He might want to try out Forster's "trimmer nirvana" one inexpensive phase at a time...until he's richer. |
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http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/P5010436.jpg Took me awhile to save up the money, but it's a great trimmer. Using my 2 hand method, I can trim 1k of 223 in a little more than 1/2 hour. Wow! My 10 per minute on my powered outfit, one-handed, averages to 1 every 6 seconds, or 300 in 30 minutes. Of course that includes finding a case in the in tray and orienting it in my clumsy fingers. The guy who demos the Giraud on Youtube must be as clumsy as me. The clumsy demo? You'll have to show us/explain your 2 hand method!
I hold a case in each hand, as one hand is finished trimming other hand is ready to insert the next case. First hand has dropped trimmed case and picked up another, waiting for the other hand to finish trimming. I use two trays in front of trimmer full of "to be trimmed brass", a large box in a drawer for trimmed cases to drop into. The real secret is to have the tunes going, and the coffee close by.
Questions Questions! I noticed in the YouTube vid that the guy turns the brass bit....is he overdoing that? Too much of that would certainly eat into the time.
I'm asuming the cutter is carbide, and notice in the vid, the cutter is moving a pretty good clip. I have improved my Forster contraption, and can now set and vary the motor speed to anything I want without having to pull the trigger in the screwgun. (Simple, I just wired in a momentary switch and can preset the trigger to any position with a hose clamp.) I can speed things up alot by increasing motor speed. Which brings the next question: Won't high speed burn the carbide cutter tips. Do you know how long before Giraud cutters need to be touched-up or even replaced? Forster's cutters are carbide too, and in the Forster Youtube vid, showing their new 3-way cutter, the guy mentions that the only thing that would dull the cutter is burning at high speed....thus my question/concern about cutter speed on either product. The high speed won't burn up a carbide bit against brass. The blade is like a traingle - the blade edge you are using and 2 additional blades. I think that if I wore them out - very, very unlikely - I could spring another $30 happily. |
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After trimming 40 cases and looking at about 3K more, I bought a Giraud Here Spendy, why yes, yes it is; however at my age with my bad hands, I am no way in hell trimming 3K cases. The good news: I trimmed probably 2,000 cases in something more than an hour. Now - the crimps - OMG they are nasty. Hornady power/hand held was a waste. Someone gave me a RCBS swager. I despise crimped ammo~ think dillon case swagger |
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Get the RCBS 3 way head for any lathe that it will fit on, then chuck a cordless drill directly on the shaft of the lathe and viola! less than 5 sec per case and it is trimmed, chamfered and deburred.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j65zHxVenz8 Not my video, but a very similiar setup. |
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I must be the only one who uses the RCBS Trim Pro Manual. I use it with the Trim Pro 3-Way Cutter and it works great. Trim, chamfer, and deburr all at the same time. I used the Zip Trim for about 300 pcs of brass and couldn't take it anymore. I used to use a RCBS Trim Pro Powered. Took me about 8hrs to do 1k. Nothing wrong with the trimmer, just not great for large batches. eta, the 3 way cutter is a great tool, it's just on a slow trimmer. |
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I must be the only one who uses the RCBS Trim Pro Manual. I use it with the Trim Pro 3-Way Cutter and it works great. Trim, chamfer, and deburr all at the same time. I used the Zip Trim for about 300 pcs of brass and couldn't take it anymore. I used to use a RCBS Trim Pro Powered. Took me about 8hrs to do 1k. Nothing wrong with the trimmer, just not great for large batches. eta, the 3 way cutter is a great tool, it's just on a slow trimmer. Wow 8 hours, and you had the powered version, why did it take so long? If i push myself i can crank out 250 pcs of 223 in about 50 minutes with the three way cutter, non-powered version. I will say my shoulder is pretty soar afterwards tho! 
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I must be the only one who uses the RCBS Trim Pro Manual. I use it with the Trim Pro 3-Way Cutter and it works great. Trim, chamfer, and deburr all at the same time. I used the Zip Trim for about 300 pcs of brass and couldn't take it anymore. I used to use a RCBS Trim Pro Powered. Took me about 8hrs to do 1k. Nothing wrong with the trimmer, just not great for large batches. eta, the 3 way cutter is a great tool, it's just on a slow trimmer. Wow 8 hours, and you had the powered version, why did it take so long? If i push myself i can crank out 250 pcs of 223 in about 50 minutes with the three way cutter, non-powered version. I will say my shoulder is pretty soar afterwards tho! I might take about 2-3 hours for 1k on an RCBS hand cranked 3 way cutter head. Ibuoprofen helps. |
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