Just curious if anyone has tried one of these Turkish Bullpup pumps.  It resembles a KS7, but it does seem to have some redeeming features - Aluminum upper, chrome bore.  

For $200, looks like it could be fun.

https://battlehawkarmory.com/product/escort-bulltac-12-gauge-51-18-barrel-pump-action-shotgun

Let me make sure I understand. You want a 12 ga shotshell going off next to your face in the chamber of a Turkish shotgun that cost $200… really?

Yes - Quite possibly.

Are there reports of them catastrophically failing?  While Turkey makes many turd shotguns, I don't think I have seen legit reports of a catastrophic failure -say to metallurgy or fractures, etc.  Yes they can and do break.  I get that.  Not looking for a solid SHTF gun, I have plenty of those.

Not all of them are bad, I have a few that work well.  Some might need some tinkering or improvement to be the best they can be, but I am okay with that.

I recall in the 1980s, Revolver guys would say - Don't buy a Glock - that plastic POS will blow up some day.  Don't buy Chinese AKs, they are crap steel.  Don't buy ARs they are plastic and aluminum junk.

Generally a few years back I was in an anti-Turkish gun mode as well, they have however  kind of grown on me with use.   Not all of them are good or of interest to me, and I don't like much of what I've seen, but I do like some things.

That model intrigues me as well, OP.

If it is reliable, it looks like it could be a great gun.

Your observsation about the thought process of the gun community is 100% spot on, btw.  They hate everything new until they are told to love it.

I remember when Saigas were new and cheap.  Heard the same complaints about them.

I kind of want the carry handle for a project.  

The Turks know their customer base. These kinds of guns go to the range once or twice, see 25 shells and then collect dust in the corner of a closet. They look cool like something out of the movies so even though they are almost always junk, they get sold more often then the boring Mav 88 which looks like grandpas scattergun and will last forever at the same price point.

Well I bought one, I will report back with how it works.

I don't plan on it being anything more than a range toy - It won't see hard use It looks like a candidate for light loads

A few of my Turkish shotguns see a bit of fun blasting - I have a few VR80s and my M4 clone actually has hold up pretty good

This will be my first Turkish Pump and generally not as fond of those as I am some of the semi-autos - but willing to give this a try.

I have quite a few other US made classic and military shotguns and 870s, Mossberg, as well - This isn't going to be a home defense gun -  just in the mood for something fun and different and this checks those boxes.

I don't disagree with this - It is a model they use.  A good Mossberg or Remington (or a Chinese clone of a Remington) is a more solid option.

COVID related social insecurity contributed to many first time buyers of self defense guns - many shotguns and Turkey fed the demand with whatever (often crap) they could.  Those cheap Turk shotguns sat/sit around like a fire extinguisher mostly not being used- made people feel better they had something if they needed it.  If it "looked" cool, it help sell.

Oddly I hated all  those mag fed Bullpup shotguns with weird names - still do.  For some reason, this one looked interesting.

Willing to roll the dice and play with it.

I'm curious if the magazine tube can be modified or extended. I believe it is limited to 5 rounds. There should be enough room for 7. Hopefully a simple magazine extension or plug removal is all it takes. It looks like it is based on one of there standard pump guns, so hopefully it is compatible with mag extensions.

I think would make a great range gun that could do home defense once tested.  Turkey is like China in that they can make great stuff or junk, it really depends on the price point.  You also don't know that until you run them.  Everyone bad mouths the Turkish guns, but most seem to be pretty good for the money.  Battlefield Las Vegas is using Turkish M4 Benelli clones with good results.  I realize it does depend on the manufacturer, but there are some gems out there.

Turkey is the new China when it comes to guns.  For years, we took Chinese AKs, SKS, Makarovs, 1911, Uzi, M-14, etc. for granted and nobody was really into them because they were so cheap.  People were hesitant to buy in as cheap guns meant they had to be junk.  Eventually the Chinese stuff got a good reputation right before Bill Clinton banned import of center & rimfire guns from China.  Now that you can't get them, the price has soared.  I had Chinese AK underfolders, SKS, Uzi, etc and always sold them off for the next new toy.  Now I wished I kept some of them and even bought more.  One day we'll look back at Turkish guns as the 'good old days'.

You guys are the very first ones I've ever heard a single good thing about a Chineese, likely Norinco AK, SKS, or M14. They were what they were. Nobody really liked them then, they are worthless now. You talk to guys that actually owned Norinco's, and I have yet to meet anyone that wants them back. I see no reason why we are going to look back fondly on the influx of Turkish junk. I'm not saying this particular shotgun is junk, but I have yet to see a single Turkish gun I think is worth anything.

Please send me all the worthless Norincos you want. I'd gladly pay shipping and give you $100 for your trouble.  Send me a Norinco AK or M14, and I'll double it to $200.  Send me a pre-1989 Chinese AK and I'll give you $500.  A Polytech Legend will get you $1000 out of my pocket in a split second.

I'll take the trash.  The Chinese M14 have forged receivers and chrome lined bores.  They were $250 new ($525 today with inflation).  Everyone that said the bolts were bad used a .308 Win gauge in a 7.62x51mm Nato chamber, which is just different enough to give a false reading.  The people that pushed the bad bolts narrative also offered a service to sell you a USGI bolt and fit it to the gun.  It's almost like they had a financial incentive bad mouth the Chinese guns.  You have to spend over $2K to get a M14 clone with a forged receiver and chrome lined bore.  Springfield Armory (whose parts are imported) don't offer those options at $1500.

I get that you don't like Turkish guns.  But the Tisas 1911 have a decent reputation.  Battlefield Las Vegas, who puts a huge amount of rounds through their rental guns, uses Turkish Benelli clones.  

This read makes me chuckle - I don't disagree - You are right we won't look too fondly on some of the Junky Shotguns - I have fun with their names too.  The Monastat 7 Shotgun and other weird names and Bullpup clip fed 12 gauge of the day.  Pretty ugly some of them.

Some of the Turkish guns are not bad, some are not good.

In the 80's, I completely understand why someone would buy Norinco, the same as I completely understand whys someone would buy a Stoeger or in this case Bulltac today. But to say in 40 years we are going to look back and miss whatever Turkish brand happens to be? Nah, nobody misses Norinco. What they miss is being able to buy working guns for cheap.

So I picked up the $200 Escort shotgun today and proceeded to shoot 25 rounds of Federal Low recoil 00 Buckshot and 10 rounds of Rio #4 Buck through it.

The low recoil stuff is nice to shoot, Kick is mild.  The normal loaded Rio was a bit spicier and the receiver area would hit my cheek hard, but nothing terrible.

The gun pump action functions very smoothly and had no problems shooting literally new out of the box.

The trigger is surprisingly nice.

I'm happy.

$200 hard to pass it up.

I wonder how it works with mini shells?

I want the Norinco/Hawk 982 Back (And Pardner Pumps)

They were an awesome value, especially the ghost ring sight models that sold for $150. They were built like tanks too, but this helped with felt recoil. At the time those 870 clones shit over anything freedom group put out under the Remington 870 Express label.

I went out and bought some today and tried a few later today.  It is Not good with mini shells.  Maybe 1 in 10 would feed the federal minis.

Still not disappointed.  I also tried Walmart bulk federal 7.5 shot target loads- eats it up nicely.  

I determined I can't aim the gun quickly because it is really too short and hard to get my cheek down to the sights - Maybe not a good cheek weld and slap my cheek.  I can take time and aim,  just not going to be my pheasant gun

They make a semiauto version for $25 more if you're willing to roll the die a second time.  Still probably buy one before a Black Aces.  
https://battlehawkarmory.com/product/escort-bulltac-auto-12ga-3-18-blk
I kinda want one of the semiauto .410s, just because it was annoy so many people.  

I watched some reviews on their guns after seeing these and they seem to get very mixed reviews, like most Turkish shotguns other than the high end stuff and the Panzer and MAC M4 copies.  There does seem to be a consensus on the abuse part- nobody wants to shoot a lot of rounds through a lightweight bullpup 12ga.  Side note, I did see where one or two reviewers made comments about not being able to load more than five rounds and they didn't think they could be modified to accept more but they didn't explain why that I recall.  

And please put me on the list for any unwanted Norinco 1911s, Norinco or Polytech M14s, AKS, SKSs, etc.

I'm adding you to my list of unwanted Norincos

I did sell several AKs years ago when they started to climb - Norinco are cool but when I could buy 3 other guns I want - I sold.

I still have Norinco Marked ammo (223, 308, maybe 9x18- have to look)  Sold all the Chicom X39 as people thought it was made with Chinese magic and was able to trade it for more money for regular ammo years back.

The smell of Chinese ammo brings back memories of my youth - it has a unique odor - sort of like fireworks but unique - except the 223 - it smells similar to other commercial 223.  ( Do we have wine testing equivalent for burning gun powders??)

Anyway - Looking at the Bulltac, you cannot "easily" have a magazine extension as

1.  The magazine tube is not threaded on the end to make an easy thread-on extension like we are used to.
2.  The figure 8 mag & barrel clamp is at the very end of the magazine tube therefore making it difficult to attach an extension via other means.

Perhaps a +1 extension could be fabricated to attach to a figure 8 clamp? Sticking out past the barrel - but Juice doesn't look worth the squeeze.

If these catch on like Norinco SKS's there will be a tone of Aftermarket accessories. (NOT)

This is relevant to my interest as i want a 20g bullpup and the Bulltac seems to be about the only option.

Does Kel-Tec make a 20 gauge?

Namesakes like Escort are unknowns as far as support 5-10 years out in the future for spare parts.

Looking at my shotgun, it seems well made.  Aluminum receiver Its barrel and lockup areas are chrome plated and appear well machined.  Unlike some Turk cheap shotguns I've handled, this is smooth out of the box and Lock up is solid  - The barrel is retained in the receiver by a steel nut - you need a special spanner wrench to remove it (it is included in the box) and it locks it nicely to the receiver.  Unlike some of those dirt cheap Turk pumps where the barrels seem lose even when  tightened all the way.

Frankly for the price point ($200) I am impressed - It was literally $199 shipped (they had free shipping last week at Battlehawk Armory ) + tax and transfer at my FFL.

The unknown is - What if I lose a part or need a replacement part in the future and will a relevant entity be around for support?  Maybe I should get another for spares?  I've done that before just to assure eI have spares.

At the moment, the gun appears as well made as many but only time will tell.

I am hopeful it will hold up, it looks good and appears well made.

No, Kel-Tec makes only 12g in the KS7 (12 or .410 in the KSG). I’m not aware of any other 20s

Speaking of domestic brands, The Winchester SXP are made in Turkey

Let me rephrase my question in regards to the magazine extension & capacity.  The Bulltac is listed as having a 5+1 capacity.  The Keltec KS7 has a 7+1 capacity.  Is the 5+1 for 2.75" shells or 3" shells?  The Keltec for example, is 7+1 with 2.75" shells and 6+1 with 3" shells (along with 2.75" that are loaded long like Rio, closer to 2.85").  They both have 18" barrels (18" listed for Bulltac, 18.5" for Keltec).

If 2.75" is the load they are using to defined capacity.  Is the magazine tube limited to 5 rounds with some of the tube not being used?  Or is the mag tube shorter with a 'full' capacity of 5 rounds?  I'm assuming the 'flash hider' is not permanently attached and it is an 18" barrel (maybe 18.5"), plus flash hider (19.5"-20" barrel with FH).  It looks like the magazine tube goes to the end (or close to) of the barrel.  At 18", it should have a 6+1 or 7+1 capacity vs. the listed 5+1.  I was wondering if the Bulltac had a fake section like the Turkish clones of the Benelli M4 and M2, which need extensions added to make them full capacity.  I know there is some import restrictions on certain guns, but don't want to be limited to 5+1 if I could get 7+1 in the same space.  It doesn't sound like an extension can be added easily to bring it flush with the end of the flash hider.  Or even slightly in front like the Remington factory mag extension.

I'm sad to hear it doesn't work with mini-shells, but it wasn't unexpected.  The shorter 1.75" shell is an underutilized shell length for tube fed guns.  On magazine fed shotguns (like the Saiga or Vepr), shell length doesn't really limit capacity.  On a tube fed gun, it can really make a difference and add 30% more capacity on a fairly low capacity gun.  It can really help address one of the shortcomings of tube fed shotgun, which is capacity.  It also has lower recoil, addressing another issue.  Mossberg had revamped their shotguns to address the issue (since it was pretty easy change).  Keltecs mostly can function with short shells, but it does vary gun to gun.

Back when the Federal 1994-2004 10rd magazine limit was in place, there were a few tricks to squeeze out more rounds.  On pistols, like Glocks for example, if you used a .40 mag in a 9mm gun, you could get an extra round capacity.  So you could load 11rds in a .40 cal 10rd mag.  I'm hope the Bulltac list 5+1 capacity referring to 3" shells with a true 6+1 capacity.  

Okay I Got you.  I will try to take it apart and see what is in the tube or if it is dimpled like an express 870

Okay - The gun magazine tube has a groove cut and compression point about 3.5 inches from the front of the magazine that limits the magazine follower - So its capacity appears limited by a round or two by this.  Also note:  the front "cap" of the magazine tube is merely a plastic end plug held in by compression of the end of the tube.  If you push this front plug re-ward you can only go to the groove/ring area 3.5 inches back - so it limits forward and backward movement of the front mag end-plug.

I didn't try taking more apart than the video linked in the manual shows.  When I feel more adventurous, I might take it down and get a long die grinder cutter and see if I can relieve the groove/ring area internally.

It's not as easy as an express - the groove is entirely around the magazine and I think there will be enough metal meat left if reliving the inside.

ETA pic of mag groove:

Thank you for the update.  This is exactly the info I wanted and what I was worried about.  Please let us know if you find a work around.

I was hoping it was like the Benelli clones where you could just replace the spacer with an extension.  I realize there are import restrictions that they had to keep to, but that was an uncreative way to do so and I fear will limit sales.  Shotguns are limited capacity as is, limiting 20-40% of the potential capacity kills it for me.  

I already have a Keltec KS-7 that doesn't have that issue.  I was eyeballing the semiauto 12ga. version of the Bulltac, which I'm assuming has the same issue.  I still may buy one, but I'm not in a rush anymore unless they come out with a nickel marine version.  

I reached out to escort and asked if they might be offering some non-constrained magazine tubes and they quickly and politely explained they had no plans to offer those.

Looks like I will be looking at this with some metal working friends to see how the best way to fix this might be done.

I will post results if I get anywhere.

Nonetheless - this shotgun is literally a blast to shoot and very fun even with 5 rds.  

I ordered some adhesive foam sheet like they use on the cheek pads for the KS7 - other than cheek slap, this is not too bad for recoil BUT I am not shooting any 3 inch or magnum shells in it.

How many instances of shotguns “going off” are there to cause such consternation?

How is this phobia any different from a phobia of a bolt action rifle ‘going off’ and blowing the bolt back through your head since your face is right behind it?

True - although I do think like working with radiation sources, distance (even a little) is your friend should something go horribly wrong.

I am confident the gun is safe from a basic design standpoint (12 ga is fairly low pressure cartridge) but I get the statement.

I've shot a few hundred through it and still have my face : )

This is pretty accurate. Most of the Norincos were junk with some exceptions, the knock off 870 pumps were pretty good but then you had things like their M14s with soft receivers that were junk. The same can be said about what is coming out of Turkey right now. There are a lot of junk guns flowing out of Turkey with a few exceptions like the SDS/Tisas/MAC 1911s and the MAC Benelli clones which have proven themselves to be really good for the price point. I really like my Tisas 1911s. My Raider with quality mags runs like a sewing machine and with a forged frame and slide, I am pretty confident it will outlast me.

All that said, I don’t really see a problem with the cheap guns so long as people understand what they are getting themselves into. I took the wife out to dinner last night and the movies with drinks afterwords and spent a little over $200. That was what I consider quality entertainment. Spending that much on a stupid but cool looking shotgun to blast through bulk target loads until it breaks is another form of entertainment. When it breaks you can’t really be upset because it didn’t cost much and you had your fun.

Couple of questions if you have that part still out.
What is the OAL, outside diameter, and wall thickness.
Also, could you post a pix of the other end of the magazine tube?

Do appreciate it,

I'll try to next time I take it apart.  It isn't very thick steel, and it is heavily crimped on the end - In fact the crimp is what holds the front spring plug in place.  
I am giving up on trying to open it up as it looks like it would add one more round (Juice isn't worth the squeeze)

Brownells has a shotgun magazine dent removal tool, but in order to use it, you would have to open the crimp if not removing the mag tube from the receiver and then re-crimp.  Looking at it, it is as if they used a dull/blunt pipe cutter tool and crimped in that groove to limit capacity - simple, cheap, but hard to remove.  I am not certain I could grind it away from inside with a long burr cutter BUT would Possibly NOT have enough metal on the OD at that point to keep it together.

https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-tools/shotgun-tools/magazine-tube-dent-raiser/

Yep. And people still talk shit about Tisas 1911’s

I have a Norinco AK. It’s a milled receiver and better built than most AK’s I have fired. I also have one of their M-14 clones: They were rumored to have “soft” receivers so I measured everywhere I could on it with calipers when NIB and at several points after firing it. Nothing changed and it’s a great gun. I’ll grab it for general blasting before either of my NM M1A’s. Had more than a case of SKS’s: Still have two and gave the others away as gifts. They were the but sub $100 guns ever made. Lastly, two Browning SA-22 clones. One runs like a top and the other is a little finicky when dirty. Some day I’ll polish up the internals and I suspect it’ll run fine

Previously have seen suppliers with various types, lengths, and wall thickness of tubing available. If not overly complicated, was thinking of just replacing the whole thing Khyber Pass/LA redneck style.

My recollection about the M14 clones was the receiver and barrel were fine but some of the bolts were soft. It was common to have a USGI bolt fitted.

I had heard that as well. My OEM bolt is still GTG

  Enabler!!!!  



Got one in 12GA ordered from the local toy store.

Got it home and was finally able to get to the back 40 to fire. Due to time constraints, was only able to put 20 rounds through it. Had one Failure to Eject and it is my fault that I flinched so that there wasn't a firm hold on it.

I'll start a new thread to document all so as to not hijack this one. Once that thread is up, I'll edit to put that link here.

{put thread linkage here}

For $200 it has been fun.  I had to put a adhesive pad on the receiver for a softer cheek weld.

I ordered one from PSA...will post when it arrives. May also buy the semi version if this one is decent.

Literally every gun you listed is desirable to collectors.
A Norinco 1911 is a solid gun that was used for lots of custom builds. Hell, their slides were so hard smiths would complain about it.

Turkish law makes it difficult to have ownership of anything other than shotguns; that’s why there are so many coming from Turkey.

There are good Turkish guns amongst the trash. The AR and Bullpup guns really tank the perception of quality.
The guns produced by the Beretta family are a good example.
A Stoeger Cougar is the same gun as an Italian produced one.
A Stoeger 2000 is a great copy of an early Benelli.



Does anyone have the updated Bulltac that they changed up the pins holding the action bars to the bolt?

Yes I have the one with the updated (non exposed pins).  That is what Battlehawk sold  when I bought mine earlier in this thread.

I really haven't taken it down other than one time.  I can reasonably clean it without full takedown - Seems to be fine.  

I received mine, love it so far. Going to try figure out a softer rubber recoil pad. It has a nice thick one, but it's hard as a rock.

Mine has the little plastic slide on covers for the pins that hold the forearm to the action bars...however, every time I have brought it out to shoot, one falls off. Typically find it in the case. This last time it just fell off when shooting. It was a fix, but a super shitty fix.

I like it. May need to figure out something for those pins.

Going to look and see if a Limbsaver pad for a magpul PRS lite would be somewhat correct size, I can figure a way to attach it. It is flat, like the ass end of the escort.