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Posted: 4/2/2016 9:41:12 PM EDT
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I need help guys, I have a Ares Armor Combat pack that I use for an assault pack. But my issue is it shags over to much. I need to get some type of insert to make it sturdy. I was thinking of something like cardboard but I needed something waterproof as well. What does the hive say? |
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I have been looking at these as a slip in to a bag I already have.
https://www.pelicanstrategic.com/ Haven't pulled the trigger on one yet but it is a ARFmember owned company. |
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I used to work for an industrial supplier that dealt with a lot of plastics, and an currently working for a company that does a lot of work with composites, here's what I'd consider.
If you're looking to make a flat-plane insert, look into getting a 1/8 (.125) sheet of Lexan which can be had on Amazon for a fairly low price, it can also be trimmed easily with a band saw. http://www.amazon.com/Lexan-Sheet-Polycarbonate-Thick-Nominal/dp/B00520AR9C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459651951&sr=8-1&keywords=Clear+Polycarbonate+Sheet Or high density PVC foam, which can cut with a utility knife, is shapeable/sandable with 80 grit or less sandpaper, is fairly stiff, lightweight and can be bent after being heating (thermosetting) If you accidentally break it this stuff responds really well to a glue gun and bonds well. The downside is it tends to form a toxic gas when set on fire. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/divinycellfoam.php Or you could hand lay fiberglass over a core of your choosing, even cardboard or just a couple layers of glass impregnated with resin. Google Hand Lay Up, it's actually a fairly easy process. Resin and fiberglass can be found at your local auto parts stores. Right now I'm trying to modify one of the Tactical Tailor ALICE pack frames, which has a bar that pushes part of the pack away from the body, but causes the rest of the pack to sag inward near the bottom of the frame. Hope this helps. |
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I have a Kifaru Urban Zippy and I was in the same predicament as the OP. At first, I tried the USMC ILBE
plastic frame sheet panel insert. This was ok, at best. It did provide some pack support. However, it did not completely do the job to my satisfaction. About a year later, I was looking at the Kifaru site and lo and behold, a frame made for the pack. The best part is that it was only $20: https://store.kifaru.net/omni-frame-sheet-p186.aspx I don't know if this will work on the aforementioned pack, but, if the dimensions are similar, I don't see why not. |
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Quoted:
I have been looking at these as a slip in to a bag I already have. https://www.pelicanstrategic.com/ Haven't pulled the trigger on one yet but it is a ARFmember owned company. You should get one. They are awesome. As in the owner 
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Quoted:
I need help guys, I have a Ares Armor Combat pack that I use for an assault pack. But my issue is it shags over to much. I need to get some type of insert to make it sturdy. I was thinking of something like cardboard but I needed something waterproof as well. What does the hive say? Tagged for interest, I'm in the same boat with the same pack. The Pelican strategic piece linked to will not fit in the hydration pocket which is approximately 15"x8". The Kifaru piece might work, the dimensions are just about spot on, but shipping costs seem a little askew. A secondary issue I've struggled with is how to affix said frame sheet to the pack without sacrificing the hydration bladder attachment point. |
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Quoted:
Tagged for interest, I'm in the same boat with the same pack. The Pelican strategic piece linked to will not fit in the hydration pocket which is approximately 15"x8". The Kifaru piece might work, the dimensions are just about spot on, but shipping costs seem a little askew. A secondary issue I've struggled with is how to affix said frame sheet to the pack without sacrificing the hydration bladder attachment point. Quoted:
Quoted:
I need help guys, I have a Ares Armor Combat pack that I use for an assault pack. But my issue is it shags over to much. I need to get some type of insert to make it sturdy. I was thinking of something like cardboard but I needed something waterproof as well. What does the hive say? Tagged for interest, I'm in the same boat with the same pack. The Pelican strategic piece linked to will not fit in the hydration pocket which is approximately 15"x8". The Kifaru piece might work, the dimensions are just about spot on, but shipping costs seem a little askew. A secondary issue I've struggled with is how to affix said frame sheet to the pack without sacrificing the hydration bladder attachment point. Pelican Strategic website says it can do custom sizes you just need to ask him. |
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You can probably find something at home cheapo or slows to slide in and stiffen it up:
plastic sheet If I can't find something at the home improvement store I hit up the office supply store next. |
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Quoted:
I used to work for an industrial supplier that dealt with a lot of plastics, and an currently working for a company that does a lot of work with composites, here's what I'd consider. If you're looking to make a flat-plane insert, look into getting a 1/8 (.125) sheet of Lexan which can be had on Amazon for a fairly low price, it can also be trimmed easily with a band saw. http://www.amazon.com/Lexan-Sheet-Polycarbonate-Thick-Nominal/dp/B00520AR9C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459651951&sr=8-1&keywords=Clear+Polycarbonate+Sheet Or high density PVC foam, which can cut with a utility knife, is shapeable/sandable with 80 grit or less sandpaper, is fairly stiff, lightweight and can be bent after being heating (thermosetting) If you accidentally break it this stuff responds really well to a glue gun and bonds well. The downside is it tends to form a toxic gas when set on fire. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/divinycellfoam.php Or you could hand lay fiberglass over a core of your choosing, even cardboard or just a couple layers of glass impregnated with resin. Google Hand Lay Up, it's actually a fairly easy process. Resin and fiberglass can be found at your local auto parts stores. Right now I'm trying to modify one of the Tactical Tailor ALICE pack frames, which has a bar that pushes part of the pack away from the body, but causes the rest of the pack to sag inward near the bottom of the frame. Hope this helps. I never would have thought about doing a hand lay up, and I've been doing it off and on for 50 years |
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I need help guys, I have a Ares Armor Combat pack that I use for an assault pack. But my issue is it shags over to much. I need to get some type of insert to make it sturdy. I was thinking of something like cardboard but I needed something waterproof as well. What does the hive say? Your particular pack, being fairly tall and narrow, does not seem amenable to retrofitting aftermarket sheet frames offered by various vendors, such as ATS, SpecOPS, and SKD. I'd contact the Mfr and see if such was an option. If so, then buy it, as doing so will save a lot of hassle. If not, and since your pack has a bladder compartment, then buy some 1/16" thick HDPE sheet from Amazon or Graingers and make your own. Being a tallish pack, you might go the next thickness up, but 1/8" might be too stiff, but I could easily be wrong.. YMMV, and it is pretty cheap to experiment. The 1/16" HDPE is easy enough to cut with aviation snips, but I dunno about cutting the 1/8" stuff. You'll slip it into the bladder sleeve in your pack. Just make very sure to round off all the corners, and sand all the edges of the plastic sheet so it does not abrade the pack fabric. Everything smooth to the touch. The MOLLE/PALS panels mentioned above seemed interesting at first thought. On consideration, unless they are secured onto the body of the pack, they are worthless, IMHO, as a pouch-mounting platform, since they will move about within the pack. But that is advanced tinkering, and you want your pack stiffened a bit. I've made a LOT of HDPE frame sheets for a LOT of different packs. Every time the pack--and I--have benefitted from doing so. I really have to do a tutorial on this. |
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I had the same problem with the USGI 3 day assault pack even with the plastic sheet left in it.
So what I'm working on is mounting it up to the gen IV rucksack frame which will allow me to carry more gear on the outside and give the pack support that I'm looking for without breaking the back or sagging. |
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I had the same problem with the USGI 3 day assault pack even with the plastic sheet left in it. So what I'm working on is mounting it up to the gen IV rucksack frame which will allow me to carry more gear on the outside and give the pack support that I'm looking for without breaking the back or sagging. IMHO what you want is a different pack. At some point retrofitting packs is not viable. |
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IMHO what you want is a different pack. At some point retrofitting packs is not viable. Quoted:
Quoted:
I had the same problem with the USGI 3 day assault pack even with the plastic sheet left in it. So what I'm working on is mounting it up to the gen IV rucksack frame which will allow me to carry more gear on the outside and give the pack support that I'm looking for without breaking the back or sagging. IMHO what you want is a different pack. At some point retrofitting packs is not viable. Explain what you mean by "At some point retrofitting packs is not viable." maybe I'm missing something here. |
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I think I would start with 0.060" HDPE sheet, 9.5"wide x 17.5"tall, with approx 1.5" corner radii to match the Ares Ruck. Then I would sew nylon webbing onto the HDPE sheet, angled from the bottom corners to where the top shoulder straps are, excess webbing folds over with velcro or 24L brass snaps, to allow you to insert 1" x 0.125" 6061 T-6 custom bent to your back alu staves. Then maybe run 1" binding tape around the edge to prevent the HDPE from rubbing thru the nylon pack. Inserted in the flat, pack cloth pocket against the backwall and that should improve it best you can without a major redesign deviating from what it was originally designed for. |
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Explain what you mean by "At some point retrofitting packs is not viable." maybe I'm missing something here. Quoted:
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Quoted:
I had the same problem with the USGI 3 day assault pack even with the plastic sheet left in it. So what I'm working on is mounting it up to the gen IV rucksack frame which will allow me to carry more gear on the outside and give the pack support that I'm looking for without breaking the back or sagging. IMHO what you want is a different pack. At some point retrofitting packs is not viable. Explain what you mean by "At some point retrofitting packs is not viable." maybe I'm missing something here. If the pack does not have a very thin compartment originally intended for a frame sheet, or, almost as good, a pocket for a water bladder situated on the ventral side of the pack, then the frame sheet has nothing with which to hold it in place except the contents of the pack, a poor substitute for a proper pocket. The frame sheet will be greatly reduced in effectiveness without being held in place. If it's just flopping around, it's not doing its intended job nearly as effectively as if it was captured in a proper pocket. One can fabricate means to hold the frame sheet in place, so that it can do its job, but at some point that becomes problematic, and either an external frame or another pack altogether would be a better choice, IMHO. |
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Quoted:
If the pack does not have a very thin compartment originally intended for a frame sheet, or, almost as good, a pocket for a water bladder situated on the ventral side of the pack, then the frame sheet has nothing with which to hold it in place except the contents of the pack, a poor substitute for a proper pocket. The frame sheet will be greatly reduced in effectiveness without being held in place. If it's just flopping around, it's not doing its intended job nearly as effectively as if it was captured in a proper pocket. One can fabricate means to hold the frame sheet in place, so that it can do its job, but at some point that becomes problematic, and either an external frame or another pack altogether would be a better choice, IMHO. Quoted:
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I had the same problem with the USGI 3 day assault pack even with the plastic sheet left in it. So what I'm working on is mounting it up to the gen IV rucksack frame which will allow me to carry more gear on the outside and give the pack support that I'm looking for without breaking the back or sagging. IMHO what you want is a different pack. At some point retrofitting packs is not viable. Explain what you mean by "At some point retrofitting packs is not viable." maybe I'm missing something here. If the pack does not have a very thin compartment originally intended for a frame sheet, or, almost as good, a pocket for a water bladder situated on the ventral side of the pack, then the frame sheet has nothing with which to hold it in place except the contents of the pack, a poor substitute for a proper pocket. The frame sheet will be greatly reduced in effectiveness without being held in place. If it's just flopping around, it's not doing its intended job nearly as effectively as if it was captured in a proper pocket. One can fabricate means to hold the frame sheet in place, so that it can do its job, but at some point that becomes problematic, and either an external frame or another pack altogether would be a better choice, IMHO. Maybe that's why I have 5 packs now and don't use any of them 
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