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Posted: 7/15/2010 4:41:49 PM EDT
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Does anyone have a guide/reference as to barrel strength or what material is good, better, best ?
Thanks. |
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I guess I could have been more clear.
I was looking at 410SS barrels and 416SS barrels and was wondering what's the difference, what's better. I searched them as 410SS etc, and got alot of info and my guess is that 416 is a little better than 410. I was looking more for a cheat sheet that would list the materials pros and cons aong with a rating of good to best, etc. |
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Quoted:
I guess I could have been more clear. I was looking at 410SS barrels and 416SS barrels and was wondering what's the difference, what's better. I searched them as 410SS etc, and got alot of info and my guess is that 416 is a little better than 410. I was looking more for a cheat sheet that would list the materials pros and cons along with a rating of good to best, etc. The biggest difference I can find after a quick look is the use of 0.6% Ni in 410 substituted by 0.6%Mo in 416 alloy. I need to do some more hunting to ferret out the real advantage of one over the other. You're not going to find an objective cheat sheet about materials used for gun barrels. There are many that work, but different barrel makers trade off machinability or some other characteristic according to their own preference. Availability is a factor, too. Some alloy might look like just the ticket for gun barrels, but it's not produced in grades (quality with respect to voids, inclusions, cold shuts, and so on) or product forms that can be used for gun barrels, so an alloy that is available has to be used. There's also a little bit of a fad thing, where one person has good results with his choice, so others copy him instead of doing their own research. Both are martensitic steels, meaning they can be strengthened by heat treating. Both are magnetic. Here's something I found that might be of interest: http://www.ssina.com/download_a_file/designguidelines.pdf (This guide does not agree with the other one I looked at while ago about the nickel content of 410 alloy.) Take a look at this, too: http://www.ssina.com/shopfabrication/images/exhibit2.pdf MIL-B-11595 covers 4150 ordnance steel for small arms gun barrels. MIL-S-46047E also covers barrels for small arms gun barrels. This looks like a 4140 class alloy. Here's a link with some discussion: http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_steel.html |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess I could have been more clear. I was looking at 410SS barrels and 416SS barrels and was wondering what's the difference, what's better. I searched them as 410SS etc, and got alot of info and my guess is that 416 is a little better than 410. I was looking more for a cheat sheet that would list the materials pros and cons along with a rating of good to best, etc. The biggest difference I can find after a quick look is the use of 0.6% Ni in 410 substituted by 0.6%Mo in 416 alloy. I need to do some more hunting to ferret out the real advantage of one over the other. You're not going to find an objective cheat sheet about materials used for gun barrels. There are many that work, but different barrel makers trade off machinability or some other characteristic according to their own preference. Availability is a factor, too. Some alloy might look like just the ticket for gun barrels, but it's not produced in grades (quality with respect to voids, inclusions, cold shuts, and so on) or product forms that can be used for gun barrels, so an alloy that is available has to be used. There's also a little bit of a fad thing, where one person has good results with his choice, so others copy him instead of doing their own research. Both are martensitic steels, meaning they can be strengthened by heat treating. Both are magnetic. Here's something I found that might be of interest: http://www.ssina.com/download_a_file/designguidelines.pdf (This guide does not agree with the other one I looked at while ago about the nickel content of 410 alloy.) Take a look at this, too: http://www.ssina.com/shopfabrication/images/exhibit2.pdf MIL-B-11595 covers 4150 ordnance steel for small arms gun barrels. MIL-S-46047E also covers barrels for small arms gun barrels. This looks like a 4140 class alloy. Here's a link with some discussion: http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_steel.html AeroE, THANKS for the links. I did see that 416 was easier to machine than 410 and had a small increase in corrosion resistance. There wasn't much of a difference other than that. I was wondering why one barrel maker would use this material instead of that material. Availability makes sense along with the other reasons you listed. I thought maybe there was a quality difference that I could find and understand to make a more informed barrel purchase. Thanks again.  More reading to do.
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The real balance point, from a barrel makers view point, is useability/availibity. If you compare a months production of rifle barrels to a months production of truck axles, you can get a feeling for how important development of a "perfect" barrel steel is from the steel producer's view point........The guy's that made the drawer slides in your kitchen, most probably bought more steel last year than your favorite barrel maker. Unless you are a big time gun colector, I would guess that you own far more 10-18 than 4140 & 4150 steel.
So much for steel. AreoE pretty nuch covered that........What do you want to know about barrels?? ?Best accuracy.......?? What cal. & chamber?? ?Best longevity......??What cal & chamber?? ?Best value...?Best what????? Staimless tends to shoot in quicker than blue, and have a pretty long "sweet spot", but go straight to hell.. Blue tends to last longer than stanlisss. Longer brake in, but go quite a while. Unchromed tend to shoot beter than chomed. Chromed last a long time, at a different level. Back in the day, If I knew that you were asking "I'm shooting douglas bbl .308 ,168-190 gr sierra MK's & 2650-2700, out of a 26" bbl , for regular 200-600 Yd.hipower matches, but I think I'm starting to loose it at 600"....I'd recomend a Hart bbl, today I don't know,but would probably recomend a Kregior...Or a Shinider, or mabe an Orbemyer, or a Schider, or a Hochk, or a Chanlin.....Also I've seen quite respectoble performance from Pac-Nor(but not in the same class).........Not the Douglass or Shilen that a hunter would need. I've shot a good number of barrels to the scrap pile, and have no doubt that the barrels that I have "junked" would preform perfictly for the average fud.....For several generations! (A barrel that has "lost it" @ 1000 yds. will probably still shoot fine @ 600yds.............Ect...This is where the "accepetence standards derive from If you have questions about percission barrel makers, I will be glad to share my opinions, but this must be cal. & chamber spefiick.... Also my opinions are based on my experiance, and weighted to accuracy,or longevity............Other than that I can't help you at all. |
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