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Posted: 5/10/2013 10:29:51 AM EDT
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Hello ARFCOMers, on October 2, 2012, I started a post on M14forum.com detailing the installation of a the excellent Blackfeather RS stock from Vancouver Island, BC. Recently, I became a member of AR15.com and “H2Oman” asked me to replicate the post here as it appears you might have to be a member of M14forum tom actually see all the pictures. It took me several days to complete the build and I posted at I went, so here goes:
Oct. 2, 2012 Hello, My Blackfeather stock finally arrived!! I know, I know....PICS required. Don't worry, I will get to it soon......hopefully I will be able to get it put together and post pics within the next 24 hours or so. For those of you who are new and may not know about the Blackfeather stocks, here is a link: http://www.m14.ca/ More to come! Darn it...ran into my first problem. The connector lock on my Scout, and probably just about every other M1A around, protrudes from the side of the receiver; the Blackfeather is not machined for the connector lock if it is protruding, it must be flush with the receiver. So....do I 1) Carefully mark where it needs to be cut and try to carefully cut it with my dremel tool. 2) Try to remove the roll pin so the connector lock can be removed and then cut. or 3) Try to find a short connector lock. What do you all think? __________________ Problem solved, I went with option 1 from my previous post and VERY CAREFULLY cut it without removing it from the receiver. I took pics of that operation as well. That's it for tonight, hopefully I will get it done tomorrow. OK, here are some pics of what I did tonight. The following pic shows what I started out with, it is an SAI M1A Scout with the following mods: TacPro Cheek rest Shimmed Gas system SEI Gas Lock front sight Sadlak NM Spring Guide Tubb Op Rod Spring HRA Hammer Trigger job by Bill Springfield Stock has Grove Tec inserts on the left side for multiple sling attachments The rest of the stuff goes with the Blackfeather stock; note their very nice spring guide, I plan to install it and see how it works. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6723-1.jpg Here are some specialty tools I will be using: http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6725.jpg First problem, the connector lock on my Scout protrudes beyond the receiver and the Blackfeather is not machined for it. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6727.jpg NO PROBLEM, out comes Mr. Dremel's nice invention and I very, very carefully remove the extra metal. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6728.jpg Finished product. Notice the machining marks on the receiver, they showed up really well when I took that pic in macro; those marks are NOT from the Dremel tool. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6731.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6732.jpg Now it fits just fine. The instructions say that it is a tight fit and I would say they are right on; it is a very snug fit, they have that stock machined to very tight tolerances. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6734.jpg I'll post more pics as I build it out tomorrow. I am really loving the way this thing looks and how well it is made. I am certain the months of waiting will have been well worth it. Oct. 4, 2012 Ok, got about an hour to play with it this evening. The "tear down" of the sights, gas system, op rod, etc. went well. The op-rod guide was a bit tight but the small hammer in the first pic was the only thing I needed to get it off. It took a few taps, but it came off in about 1 minute after I started using the hammer. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6736.jpg The next step is to fit the Blackfeather Op-Rod guide (BFOG). Now this unit is designed to fit on a standard barrel op-rod boss that measures .802". Well....my boss measured .802" but the BFOG would not go on. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6740.jpg So, I started sanding the boss with the emery paper provided. I also, sanded the inside of the BFOG with some 400 grit sand paper just to smooth it up. I am going at it slowly and carefully. After about 30 minutes of sanding and fitting and it still not sliding on I picked up some 180 grit sandpaper and started using that. Ten minutes more and it will still not fit: http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6737.jpg Well, that's it for tonight. Maybe I will pick up some heavier grit stuff tomorrow and go at it again. For sure, I would rather slowly hand fit this part than have it fit too loose. You can see in the next pic of the op-rod boss about how far the BFOG fits on the boss by the shiny ring at the right side of the boss. Its going to be a nice tight fit when I finally get it. Laz...any advice as to how to fit the BFOG that is not in the instructions would be appreciated; I'm good with slow and careful if that is what it takes. I'm just not sure if it is better to sand the boss or the BFOG. Thanks. More to come. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6741.jpg Laz replies: See all those grooves in the boss? They are not usually present on a standard / unmodified barrel boss. I quote from the instruction sheet included with your BF stock: The new M14.CA adjustable op rod guide is designed with a .802” ID hole to fit around Standard US GI contour M14 barrels with an op rod guide mounting boss OD of .800”. ... However, many M14 rifles have had the original op rod guide to barrel connection tightened up by various methods such as stippling, peening, or chemical adhesives. If your barrel has such a non-standard modification, it may be necessary to thoroughly clean off any remaining adhesives, and/or to dress down any raised metal portions of the op rod guide barrel boss. Work slowly and carefully as proper fit here is important with any op rod guide, and is especially critical to extracting the full accuracy potential of the new BFORG PS: I don't know if your dad ever gave you the same lecture my dad gave me ... that "PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE". I NEVER LIKED THAT SAYING ... but in cases like this one, patience WILL .... eventually ... be rewarded by a good fit. PPS: imagine if you will fitting a brand new [$ 300 ] TRW op rod to a brand new [ $ 600 ] M14/M1A receiver ... where the op rod slot in the receiver is undersize to begin with, and the track is very rough ... with hills and valleys. Some people would just slather on the valve grinding compound, get out their BIGGEST rubber mallet, and beat the cocking handle back and forth till everything slid smoothly. And these people with end up with metal removed from BOTH the tiny op rod tab and the slot. Other, more patient people, would use a red permanent marker on the tab and in the slot to find the high/tight spots, and PATIENTLY work these high spots down with fine sandpaper on a bent stick, removing and replacing, and cleaning and re-coating with valve compound many, many times until the fit was PERFECT, AND, with a minimum of metal removed from that tiny op rod tab. Both methods will get you to a working op rod, but the patient man ends up WITH A TAB THAT WILL BE AS LARGE AS POSSIBLE AND THAT WILL LAST LONGER! Only you can say which way to go. Laz...any advice as to how to fit the BFOG that is not in the instructions would be appreciated; I'm good with slow and careful if that is what it takes. I'm just not sure if it is better to sand the boss or the BFOG. Thanks. More to come. It is likely that you need to take off about another .001" from your over sized barrel boss. You can remove material from the barrel boss, or from the inside of the ORG. Your choice ... or both! For me, if working by hand, it is usually much easier to clamp the barreled receiver or the barreel itself in a padded vise, and use the emery paper like a boot rag. Change the angle of pull regularly to ensure that all sides are worked down evenly, and that the boss ends up ROUND! AND/OR, you could chuck something up in your electric drill, and also ream out the inside of the ORG under power. Warp 1 rather than Warp 6 would be better, with many stops along the way to test the fit. AHHhhhhh ... the joys of do-it-yourself Gun Smiting on the M14. Where the end user is totally in charge of the Q & A process all by hisself. PPPS: Originally, we were hoping to sell the BF stock as "No gunsmiting required". And if we made the tolerances a lot more sloppy, trying to fit ALL of the various M14 receivers "sort of OK", we might have even been able to come close to that objective. But for those FUSSY BATARDS that won't settle for anything less than a PERFECT fit, you gotta start small, work slowly, and remember that "Patience is a virtue". TTFN LAZ 1 [;) My reply: Thanks Laz!! I have been using the "boot polish" method with sandpaper, looks like I will have to get something with a little stronger grit. I could try some brake cylinder hones in my drill for the inside of the BFOG, but this little voice in my head says that may not be the best way to do it. I would rather keep it slow and precise by hand and end up with a great fit. Thanks for not making it "no gunsmithing required" part; there are too many variables in parts out there and the fit of this part is very important. After all, who doesn't like tinkering with their M14?? This is definitely the kind of gun for a person who is not afraid to work on guns at home anyway. I'll eventually get it fit and then post some more pics. I am quite sure the time spent will be well worth it. Oct. 5 Well, I took another stab at mating the BFOG to my oprod guide boss. I took some 180, 220, 320, and 400 grit sandpaper and carefully started sanding the boss. After 30 minutes of sanding, mostly with 220 grit, I became concerned that I was sanding the boss more on the outside edge than the inside edge close to the scout mount despite my trying to keep it level. At at that point, I decided to break out my automotive brake cylinder hones and try opening up the hole in the BFOG a little. I felt that I might be able to be more precise going at it this way as apposed to sanding the boss. The following photos show the tools I used. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6753.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6752.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6748.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6749.jpg In retrospect, I should have started out doing this way. Its good to smooth up the boss with some sandpaper for sure but to take off .001 or so inches and keep the tolerances tight, the brake cylinder hones worked great. I got them from a Napa auto parts store last year. If you do the same thing to your BFOG, I would recommend marking one side of the BFOG and alternate which side you stick the hones in from as you hone and try the fit. It took about 30 minutes to hone the BFOG to where it almost fit. Just as I suspected, I had sanded the op rod guide boss a bit tapered so I cut some sandpaper narrow and sanded the side closest to the scout rail as I carefully did the final fitting. Here is how it turned out. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6755.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6747.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6743.jpg The fit is nice and tight but I can still rotate it with a little effort using a tool but not by hand; that should be good. Now I will give the gun barrel a good cleaning and remove all the copper since I have it all torn apart, then I will follow the instructions and adjust the fit of the BFOG. Hopefully I will get some time to work on it this weekend. Oct. 7 Well, here it sits with the Blackfeather Op Rod Guide (BFOG) aligned in the stock. These parts are so well machined that I could not even get a .0015" feeler gauge between the BFOG and the stock bosses on either side. I will see what happens when I shoot it. If the groups move horizontally, as it heats up, I will have to clearance the BFOG by sanding a bit on one side or the other; I suspect I will not need to do this. The fitting of the BFOG is really not very difficult, but it is an operation you do not want to rush. The slower you go the better and closer fit you end up with and that should increase the accuracy potential. Also, as you can see in this photo, the BFOG was against my scout mount when it was in the perfect aligned position. I discussed this with Lazerus and we both felt that due to the metals of these two parts having different expansion ratios, it might be best to give them some clearance. I remedied this by loosing the screws on the scout mount and gently bumping it back a little. I ended up with a .006" gap between them. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6762.jpg Before putting Loctite on the BFOG retaining screws, you have to reinstall the op rod and bolt, without the op rod guide spring, and check the alignment. Mine was perfect. I even slid the gas cylinder back on and inserted the piston to see how it aligned with the op rod. As you can see, it all aligns up very well. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6759.jpg The instructions are very detailed on how to fit these parts. I read them over before completing the fitting of the BFOG about 3 times just to make sure I understood what to do and why it was important. After doing it, I could probably fit one up in a fraction of the time it took me to do this one. The next picture is after I put Loctite on the screws and left it over night. The grip you see installed on the stock is a Bravo Company Mod 0 Gunfighter grip. Here's a linkhttp://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-G...od-0-black.htm http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6764.jpg At this point, I am about done. I just need to finish cleaning all the parts I took out of the gun, gas piston, gas cylinder, etc. and put it all back together. I will be installing a Tubb 2000 op rod spring and hammer spring as well. Who knows when I will get this thing out to the gun range; I typically shoot at Knob Creek and the bi-annual Machine Gun Shoot starts on October 12th, so it may be a while. http://www.knobcreekrange.com/events...hine-gun-shoot I'll get some completion photos when it's finished as well as the before and after weights for those interested. Of course, I will photo the first range session and results. Oct. 9 Here is the finished product. The butt stock I bought is a MFS Battle Link Utility stock with the optional cheek riser. I could probably shave half a pound or more off by using a different stock but I like the adjustable cheek riser. The gun balances right at the front edge of the mag with and without the scope. It feels really nice and I can't wait to shoot it. I will get some before and after weights posted soon. http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6786.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6787.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6785.jpg http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j457/kyhilldillie/IMG_6784.jpg Here is someone asking about the weight, keep in mind the figures below include a LOADED 20 round mag: HereQuote: looks great, if you dont mind me asking what is the buttstock weight and cost? is it polymer? It is suppose to be about 9 oz. but it feels heavier than that; I will have to remove it and weigh it separate. It is polymer, here is a link: http://www.missionfirsttactical.com/...-Utility-Stock I added the cheek riser as well. http://www.missionfirsttactical.com/...le-Cheek-Piece They are nice but not as light as an ACE. I wish I had a digital scale; I only have one of the tall balance beam scales you see in a doctors office. Weight with SAI wood stock + 20 round mag = 10.9 # The above with the Vortex Viper PST 1-4 = 12.2 # Weight with Blackfeather stock + 20 round mag = 11.2 # The above with the Vortex Viper PST 1-4 = 12.5 # Without the scope and mag it weighs 9.4 #. This compares to the 8.2 # the gun on their website weights. http://www.m14.ca/m14m1a-blackfeather-rs.html You can see it by scrolling down. My scales are not as accurate as a digital but should be close enough. Mine is configured different; my stock is definitely heavier than an ACE, I have a scout mount installed, and the AAC Blackout flash hider with the SEI GLFS probably adds some weight compared to the standard set up. All of this adds up. If I had mine configured like the one in the photo, I think the weights would be comparable for sure. A loaded mag weights almost 2 pounds and that alone adds a lot of weight. My initial thoughts are that it will be very handy, very accurate, and that the zero should not move. It should be like a bedded stock that can be tuned without the hassle of possibly messing up the bedding. I was a little surprised the final set up was about .3# heavier than the stock set up, but again the comparison is not exactly apples to apples. May 10, 2013 Although I have only had it to the range twice, I really like it. I am not sure if I will leave the Vortex 1-4 on it or go with a Zeiss 3.5x10 Rapid Z-800 that I have or spring for a Super Sniper 1-6; decisions decisions. Sometime, I plan to test different forearm tensions by adjusting the bolt setting in the oprod guide block and shooting 5 shot groups with the same ammo and different settings; that should be interesting. Also, I must order one of the new forward rails that m14.ca now has that goes with this stock; then I will have something to mount a T50 Thermal Sight to as soon as someone dies and leaves me $10,000……yeah right. Anyway, it is a great set up and I highly recommend it. If you are a member at M14forum.com here is a link to the original post with all the original comments I really could not put here: http://m14forum.com/modern-m14/122776-my-blackfeather-arrived-finished-pics-page-3-a.html |
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Quoted:
Hello ARFCOMers, on October 2, 2012, I started a post on M14forum.com detailing the installation of a the excellent Blackfeather RS stock from Vancouver Island, BC. Recently, I became a member of AR15.com and “H2Oman” asked me to replicate the post here ...  
I like how the traditional scope mount lowers the optic. The A.R.M.S. #18 is another mount that aids in lowering the optic. Is that a Battle Link Utility pistol grip? It looks comfortable... |
| It is interesting to me how we both outfitted our guns with lower powered scopes and the MFS stock with the adjustable cheek piece. I find them both to be very functional. As far as the grip goes, it is a BCM Mod 0 grip and is a little more vertical than the standard AR grip. I like the angle and find it very comfortable with this set up. I plan to get the m14.ca front rail that goes with this stock, I think it would be a great addition. |
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