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Posted: 10/26/2004 9:53:39 AM EDT
| How does the Bobcat Weapons compare to H&K? Are the two, parts compatible? |
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File Number: -0974266-8 Corp. Name: TOP NOTCH ACCESSORIES, INC Domestic Address 2155 S PORTER ST GILBERT, AZ 85296 Statutory Agent Information Agent Name: DOROTHY BAILEY Agent Mailing/Physical Address: 2155 S PORTER ST GILBERT, AZ 85296 Agent Status: APPOINTED 01/02/2001 Agent Last Updated: 11/14/2002 Officer and Director Information Name: DOROTHY BAILEY Title: PRESIDENT/CEO Address: 2155 S PORTER ST GILBERT, AZ 85296 Date Assigned: 01/02/2001 Last Updated: 01/06/2004 Additional Corporate Information Corporation Type: BUSINESS Incorporation Date: 01/02/2001 Corporate Life Period: PERPETUAL Domicile: ARIZONA County: MARICOPA Approval Date: 01/02/2001 Original Publish Date: 03/19/2001 |
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File Number: -0968064-0 Corp. Name: SPECIAL WEAPONS, INC., A CLOSE CORPORATION Domestic Address 4613 E IVY ST #102 MESA, AZ 85205 Statutory Agent Information Agent Name: TODD R BAILEY Agent Mailing/Physical Address: 6926 E UPPER TRL CIR MESA, AZ 85207 Agent Status: APPOINTED 05/10/2002 Agent Last Updated: 06/21/2002 Officer and Director Information Name: TODD BAILEY Title: PRESIDENT/CEO Address: 6926 E UPPER TRL CIR MESA, AZ 85207 Date Assigned: 11/14/2000 Last Updated: 06/02/2003 Additional Corporate Information Corporation Type: CLOSE CORPORATION Incorporation Date: 11/14/2000 Corporate Life Period: PERPETUAL Domicile: ARIZONA County: MARICOPA Approval Date: 11/14/2000 Original Publish Date: 12/04/2000 |
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File Number: -1073307-4 Corp. Name: BOBCAT WEAPONS INC. Domestic Address PO BOX 210107 MESA, AZ 85277 Statutory Agent Information Agent Name: ANDREW C BONAS Agent Mailing Address: 3064 E MALLORY ST MESA, AZ 85013 Agent Physical Address: 4613 E. IVY ST. SUITE #102 MESA, AZ 85205 Agent Status: APPOINTED 08/27/2003 Agent Last Updated: 06/04/2004 Officer and Director Information Name: ANDREW G BONAS Title: PRESIDENT/CEO Address: 3064 E. MALLORY ST. MESA, AZ 85213 Date Assigned: 04/14/2003 Last Updated: 06/04/2004 Name: LOOISE D BONAS Title: SECRETARY Address: 3064 E. MALLORY ST. MESA, AZ 85213 Date Assigned: 04/14/2003 Last Updated: 06/04/2004 Additional Corporate Information Corporation Type: BUSINESS Incorporation Date: 04/14/2003 Corporate Life Period: PERPETUAL Domicile: ARIZONA County: MARICOPA Approval Date: 04/14/2003 Original Publish Date: 08/26/2003 |
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Interesting information on TOP NOTCH Inc. The document provided only shows one last name which is shared by two seperate companies/parties. This is not proof that these two companies share business control or ownership. Bobcat Inc. is not listed in this document or afiliation with Special Weapons, or Top Notch per document provided. These companies may sell, share, or provide each other with parts and technology but remain seperate identities and ownership. |
Hearsay, not "hersay" although I don't think you can inflate either. Are you seriously claiming that Todd Bailey's not involved in Bobcat, or are you just saying that the internut joiks can't prove that? What knowledge do you have about the ownership of Bobcat? |
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My point is that these companies may or not share business intrests in building H&K clones but are maintained by seperate controling factors which include better quality control, business attitude toward the consumer, and ownership. To tag Andy Bonas (Bobcat) as a hidden SW company with different clothing is little to much belive. Just because these guys both live in Arizona and build simular products the new guy is going to get screwed by SW reputation. Just to much slander Bs. I bet the ATF and IRS couild solve this matter in a heart beat with tax & manufacturing licence info, Haaaa.... |
yeah, and you know it is illegal for the irs to make public private tax information, right? And the atf doesn't care one way or the other, so again, what was your point? |
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Show me the written documentation proof that Todd Baily maintains control of Bobcat. All i have seen is business profile of TOP NOTCH, SPECIAL WEAPONS, and BOBCAT INC. that provide basic information on company base information. No proof here...... I hear a lot of endless chatter and steam blowing on so called relationships but have not seen any actual tangible evidence of Todd Baily invovlment in BW outside of being parts supplier. |
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Dear Lord up in Heaven, Please make this shit stop, every six months we go through this. Everybody knows that SW, Top-Notch, Bobcat have a thin wall between the three of them. The real question is why have two companies? Well, this is my take on that when you have a not so good name, ie SW, with some people. Creating a new company with a different name is like a get out of jail free card. Even put the company under someone elses name but keep doing the same "quality" job. Kinda like Hesse/Vulcan situation. Now that fools most people. However, not us old hens here. A little history, when Bobcat first started the addresses were exactly the same as SW. Hope this helps tbailey Site Admin
No shock here: Registrant: bobcat weapons inc. 4613 east ivy st. suite 102 mesa, AZ 85205 US Domain name: BOBCATWEAPONS.COM Administrative Contact: bonas, andrew [email protected] 4613 east ivy st. suite 102 mesa, AZ 85205 US 480-343-2285 Fax: 000-000-0000 Technical Contact: Manager, Domain [email protected] 2800 28th Street Suite 205 Santa Monica, California 90405 US 888 511 4678 Fax: 310-314-1610 Registration Service Provider: iPowerWeb, [email protected] 888 511 4678 310-314-1610 (fax) http://iPowerWeb.com This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords, DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions. Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC. Record last updated on 24-Sep-2003. Record expires on 24-Sep-2004. Record Created on 24-Sep-2003. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.IPOWERWEB.NET 64.70.61.130 NS1.IPOWERDNS.COM 12.129.206.202 The Data in the Tucows Registrar WHOIS database is provided to you by Tucows for information purposes only, and may be used to assist you in obtaining information about or related to a domain name's registration record. Tucows makes this information available "as is," and does not guarantee its accuracy. |
If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and swims like a duck its a duck right ? So in that line of thought the last Bobcat clone I saw broke before the first mag was empty and the owner couldnt get it running that match. Seems like a duck |
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Bobcat Weapons and Special Weapons are in the same building under to different class 2 licenses. The 2 companies are separated by a chain link fence put up inside the building. I've been in the building at least 5 times for repairs. My gun works 100% now, i put a pof full auto bolt carrier spring the whole bolt assembly. The 2 things that need to be changed on the gun to get it to work properly is extractor and ejector. The pof is hk licensed works great. I FIXED MY GUN THEY NEVER GOT IT TO WORK 100%. But i will say they were always very very nice and tried to be helpful. HK PARTS or hk licensed part are are to spec. Mine gun is a short barreled rifle with a sear pack. Buy a parts kit from P.O.F. and a recvr from them or ohio rapid fire and build it yourself use as many part from hk or licesned hk as possible by law and you will probably have a better build . 
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Ok, for all of you that pass around incorrect info like a bunch of gossiping women here is the info from & about Bobcat .Hopefully this will clear up all of the questions, if not feel free to contact Andy Bonas he is the owner of Bobcat and would be glad to talk with you .Thank You Blaine Bunting / Atlantic Firearms,llc Thank you for your interest in Bobcat Weapons products. I hope the > following information answers your question to your satisfaction. If you > would like further clarification, I will be glad to discuss it with you at > your convenience. > > Todd Bailey, the founder of Special Weapons Inc., is a long time business > acquaintance of mine. I actually hired him in at TRW to develop new airbag > technology in the mid to late 1990's. So we kept in touch on and off over > the years. I moved from TRW, in Mesa Arizona, to California to run a small > aerospace company in early 1999. In early 2003, I decided it was time to > begin my own venture. I contacted several friends that I had developed over > time to look for opportunities. When I called Todd, it just so happened > that he had decided to shut down the civilian sales side of his firearms > business because he wanted to focus his resources on the law enforcement, > military and foreign government sales. After several conversations, we > struck a deal. I would develop an independent company with its own identity > to produce and distribute firearms for the civilian market. My company > would have exclusive access to all of the Special Weapons Inc. owned > supplier tooling and parts in exchange for a license fee and the commitment > to purchase parts through Special Weapons Inc. Thus Bobcat Weapons was > founded in April 2003 as an Arizona Corporation. > > > > Therefore, Bobcat Weapons, Inc. is not owned in part or in whole by Todd > Bailey, Wendy Bailey or any relation thereof. In addition, Bobcat Weapons, > Inc. is not owned in part or in whole by any other company. You can review > the corporate filings for Bobcat Weapons, Inc. at > http://www.cc.state.az.us/corp/annrpts/index.htm. Click on "Annual Reports" > in the left side margin and then search for Bobcat Weapons. There are a few > other reports on the site if you search around a bit. > > > > > > You will notice that Bobcat Weapons and Special Weapons share the same > physical address. Bobcat Weapons occupies the back half of the same > building as Special Weapons. It made sense for Bobcat Weapons to be > co-located with Special Weapons until we learned the intricacies of > manufacturing the rifle. Bobcat Weapons is re-locating to a new facility as > of February 2005. > > > > Bobcat Weapons Inc. is an independent manufacturer of firearms. In fact we > are in discussions to produce a completely different firearm than an HK > clone. In addition, we have considered developing our own firearm or clone. > Both of these projects are completely independent of Special Weapons and > Todd Bailey. > > > > One final comment. If it were not for Special Weapons and Todd Bailey, I > would not have launched Bobcat Weapons. Todd Bailey has been very > successful with the HK clones and other firearms he has developed. No > matter what your relationship with or opinion of Special Weapons or Todd > Bailey you have to give him credit for his accomplishments. I believe the > civilian market owes Todd Bailey and other entrepreneurs alike, a debt of > gratitude for making available several unique and interesting firearms that > would not otherwise be available to the civilian market. > > > > You are more than welcome to publish this information. It is basically the > same Information that I offer when asked over the telephone. > > > If I may be of further assistance, you may reach me at the numbers listed > below. > > Best Regards, > Andy Bonas > > Bobcat Weapons Inc. > PO Box 21017 > Mesa, AZ 85277-1017 > phone: 480.832.0844 > fax: 206.350.5274 > mobile: 480.343.2285 > email: [email protected] > web site: www.bobcatweapons.com |
I don't think Todd *makes* the V93, he may be responsible for the receivers (and even then, not every step of the stamping process), but Vector actually assembles them. |
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Atlantic Firearms thanks for your responce in this post with Mr Andy's up front explanation on his business and personal relationsip with Todd Baily and the production and manufacture of the Bobcat line of HK94 updated clones. Gossiping old Ladies, now thats to rich LOL... |
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Here is a email we got from a Police officer that purchased a Bobcat BW5 FS Blaine I recently attended the HK MP5 machine-gun operator and machine-gun instructor school. One of the many things the instructor stressed was that the shooting skills we learned are perishable. He strongly suggested we keep proficient with regular practice. Working for a police department with limited resources makes practice beyond the regular training schedule difficult. So I decided to purchase the Bobcat BW-5 FS to train with in my off time. The BW-5 FS is as close to the real MP5 as you can get. The fit and finish is excellent. When I brought it to work and showed other members of the ERT they could hardly tell the difference. Except for being semi auto only, it looks the same, feels the same and shoots the same. With inexpensive 9 mm ammo I train regularly with my BW-5 and avoid the wear and tear on the issued MP5. It's worked out so well I've recommended your website and the Bobcat BW-5 FS to a few of my fellow MP5 instructor graduates. Thanks again Atlantic Firearms for the smooth transaction. Lt. E. Jankowski Batavia, NY PD |
Where is that Ray Charles "I cant see shit", or in this case "I dont want to see shit". Todd has no control over Bobcat. Right. Thats like me saying I farm a couple thousand acres for my father on his land, but he has no control over what I do. Eventhough there are two companies. Suuurrrrreee.  I'm sure that the new owner is a good person, never had any dealings with him. But if he is just taking over production from SW, how does that make the BC-5 any better or worse then the SW-5? Besides customer service, which could only get better. To many of us that have shot or who have had friends that own a SW-5/32, etc, and have had ftf and fte problems with them right out of the box and after a "break in" period, we're just saying looks like its still quacking. By many of us saying this we are not "old ladies" we are looking out for each other. Kinda like "don't purchase anything from Joeken".
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I've stayed away from this type of posts for along time, but I just want to sound off on one thing. How many of the people that talke soooooo much trash have actually OWNED a Special Weapons gun? Well, I have. I have to say, I wasn't really happy with it either. But I sold it and now I know. I DON'T go around crying about how evil and mean Special Weapons is. Fact is, even after owning one myself, I don't feel that I have enough knowledge on the rest of the his products to flame the guy. As far as customer service from SW. I was always pleased. Even though I had to contact them a couple different times, when they said they were sending something out to me, they did. That's good enough. Don't get me wrong, I think it is ALWAYS good for you guys to "enlighten" unknowing gun buyers of the possible problems of new weapons, but why not just keep the personal issues to yourself? All of this "I HATE TOAD" stuff gets a little childish. Pretty soon, some of you will be egging his house like a bunch of school kids. Just my opinoin. Side note: Here's to all the warriors overseas doing shit that we'll never hear about. |
| Wamag ,yes we are also trying to post credible info on this site and not just pass around OLD gossip .We sold Special Weapons units for several years , had a few problems and very horrible customer service .We had to discontinue our relationship with them after several episodes of poor customer service. When Bobcat first started we were skeptical and purchased with caution our first order .After selling 30 -40 units , great product, customer service and feedback from our clients, i feel we can speak with some credible authority about Bobcat & their products .Thank You Blaine Bunting ,President Atlantic Firearms,llc |
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Don't have any experience in the 9mm version of the Special Weapons gun, but I do have one of the 45 versions that uses grease gun mags(SW-45) and have not had any trouble whatsoever with the gun. Just spent the money to SBR it and it still works perfectly. Maybe I have the odd weapon that works, but I am happy with mine. Converting the grease gun mags is a pain but not real difficult.
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According to SAR magazine, Bonas is one of Toad's friends (eeeww!) and bought all the tooling and parts from Toad with an agreement to use Special Weapons as a parts source. What reeks to me: 1. The owner of Bobcat is one of Toads friends - guilt by association 2. Bobcat, for the time being, is using the same tooling and parts as Special Weapons. 3. Direct experience with the product. I have found the SW-5's to be POS in general. Some were made to work after much toil and grief whereas others still won't run. The rare exception seems to be one that runs out of the box (never did see one of those). I am not surprised - it's the very same parts that Toad was assembling!!! 4. Top Notch, Special Weapons, Bobcat Weapons, and the missed Tactical Weapons are ALL in the same location. If they are independent you would think they would stop sharing the same building unless there are parts and business being swapped, and that bodes badly. They are in the same freaking building. Yes, on paper they are separate. Where I Special Weapons and wanted to shed some of the infamy, I would create another company and put in my buddy's name. I'd put up a fence for show (why else would you need one between the company?). Oh wait, it looks like they did exactly this. Toad even did the same with his wife. What, his wife wants to compete? One business in the same product line not enough for them? I don't care who makes them, the customer feedback is atrocious despite how every now and then they actually send a unit out that they didn't manage to F-up. |
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I have the SW-5 FS and the UMP kit for the USC. I also bought their G3 Stock Set for my CA G3 Clone. I'm not an apologist for the Bailey Group of Firearms Designers and Accessory Distributors, but there is no way I could afford an HK-94 or anything close to a real UMP. I have heard horror stories about some of their builds and their service from people I trust. I, have had the good fortune to not have any problems with them or their guns. I have shot the piss out of my SW-5 FS and it keeps chugging along. When someone makes a suitable alternative to the alternative to HKs, vote with your feet. |
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I have a PTR-91...now I like it very much and it has given me the bug for a 94 copy to SBR....I have seen both the Bobcat and the SW copies and the parts from Top Notch...nice looking, and a tempting buy...if you can get a straight answer out of any of them when a part or gun will be delivered... Now I have contacted both Top Notch and Bobcat...both by e-mail and once on the phone...they are surly, short tempered, condescending, pricks. When asked serious questions about delivery times for either parts or a gun, they get rightous and defensive to the point of name calling. I don't know about anyone here....but I'm not plunking down money for parts or a gun with an open ended delivery time and when asked they give you a "I dunno". It took Top Notch 7 months to return a e-mail about a MSG-90 stock copy that they had listed on their website....hell it took so long that I forgot about it until the prick sent the e-mail bitching because I asked about the delivery time.. ORF is the only people that have been nice, helpful and answered every e-mail I sent them regarding their copy of the 94.... In short...Top Notch and Bobcat can rot.... |
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This is one of the primary reasons for all the Toad bashing. It's not just a often crappy product that got this thing rolling, it was the customer service from hell along with much, much delayed product delivery times, lies and failures in production, and people's money tied up for long periods of time. People were screaming for their product while Toad used the money to add a lot of equipment to his shop. In the end, people who even got a crappy product were thankfull that they didn't lose their money, though some probably still did (every SW 94 copy I have personally laid hands on needed work to run and some still don't). Like Hesse/Vulcan Arms, it's possible to get a working fair quality product, but that was the exception with SW. Hopefully Bobcat will break that mold and show up the naysayers with quality product which would be good for all. If the customer service remains that bad, it's going to be Toad all over again. Unfortunately, financially many people don't have much choice. Good luck to them. |
Spot on...they want people to buy their products, which people do..but I have hard time giving my money to people that treat me like crap.... |
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