Warning

 

Close
Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Cancel Confirm
AR15.COM
Armory Sponsor
4/24/2015 9:54:31 AM EDT
I have several shoe box containers of prepped .223 brass I am loading for general purpose plinking bullets.

Using Lee LM for final loading: powder, cop, seat, crimp.
Hornady 55 gr fmjbt
25.0 gr TAC
2.225"+/-.005
They shoot respectably out of all of my ARs

I am plugging away pumping out the rounds when I get this one case that will not go into the shell plate. I try it in all five positions as I continue loading, but it wont fit. It gets me thinking why this case wont go so I drop it in a couple of my gun's chambers. Seems to chamber well in all of them I try, so I go to try it in the press again. Still no go.  I am scratching my head over it when I look at it closer and realize that there is no primer in the case. I have no idea where the primer went, although I guess there is the possibility of me slipping up and dropping an unprimed case in. BTW, I hand prime off press.

Then it hits me that this case was likely somehow overpressure since the case head would not fit in the shell plate.


So here is my question/comment:

How do you guys that do all steps on press(like a Dillon 1050 where you can do all the steps in one pass) catch a problem like that? Especially since you are not touching the brass "that" much.

I would have to guess that this case would not slide into a Dillon shell plate either, but with automated case feed systems, how bad would this problem jam up your press?

Since I am hand feeding the cases and bullets, it was easy to catch even though I was a bit slow on diagnosis.

4/24/2015 9:58:13 AM EDT
[#1]
First.... That's been my exact standard plinking/3-Gun load for years.  It's great.

Second... What was the headstamp?  When I was loading on a Lee turret, I found that I had the same problem with about half of the Privi 5.56 brass.  It's probably just on the large side of spec and not overpressure.  Enough pressure to effect the case head would likely have resulted in an outright failure.
4/24/2015 10:06:48 AM EDT
[#2]
I have found that my Lee shell plate is a little out of spec(go figure) on one of the shell slots. I have found that if I get a case that doesn't go in easily, I just get another case and try that first case in the next slot. It always goes in at least somewhere on the shell plate. And I have never had a problem with cases not chambering properly. When I mean this case would not go in, I mean it would not even start in. Not that it was tight or something. It just hard stopped at the moment the case hit the shell holder.

The fact that it chambered in my guns at all means that I did resize it.
4/24/2015 10:08:40 AM EDT
[#3]
I use a XL650 with case feeder for all my reloads including .223.

A jam up like you had would not cause any powder spill or other wise any major grief.

It's a two step process for me on my press and any bad case would get caught on my prep cycle.

Just pop out the offender and carry on.

Automatic prep set up does my resizing/decapping and trim.
4/24/2015 10:27:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote History
Quoted:
I use a XL650 with case feeder for all my reloads including .223.

A jam up like you had would not cause any powder spill or other wise any major grief.

It's a two step process for me on my press and any bad case would get caught on my prep cycle.

Just pop out the offender and carry on.

Automatic prep set up does my resizing/decapping and trim.
View Quote


Yeah, I am jealous. I have more time than money now though so I will have to continue doing the prep manually. I size on a RCBS RC, trim using a WFT, chamfer, wash the cases, and then prime by hand. Then it is off to the press.
When sizing, I use the RC because I have found that the Lee LM has just enough play that it is not accurate enough to size reliably to within .003-4 shoulder bump.

I have no blue, but I make do.
4/24/2015 10:30:04 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote History
Quoted:
I use a XL650 with case feeder for all my reloads including .223.

A jam up like you had would not cause any powder spill or other wise any major grief.

It's a two step process for me on my press and any bad case would get caught on my prep cycle.

Just pop out the offender and carry on.

Automatic prep set up does my resizing/decapping and trim.
View Quote



How are you lubing your cases?
4/24/2015 10:45:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote History
Quoted:



How are you lubing your cases?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I use a XL650 with case feeder for all my reloads including .223.

A jam up like you had would not cause any powder spill or other wise any major grief.

It's a two step process for me on my press and any bad case would get caught on my prep cycle.

Just pop out the offender and carry on.

Automatic prep set up does my resizing/decapping and trim.



How are you lubing your cases?


I never touch the cases.

I dump the fired cases from a tote into a cardboard box and spray them down with a moonshine version of DCL.

Shake the box a few seconds then dump the cases into the case feeder and pull away until I'm tired.
4/24/2015 11:07:05 AM EDT
[#7]
I have encountered the cases that won't go into the shell holder and each time it was a Lake City brass. You can put your calipers in the extraction groove and find that it is about .004-.006 bigger than your other brass.
4/24/2015 1:02:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote History
Quoted:
I have encountered the cases that won't go into the shell holder and each time it was a Lake City brass. You can put your calipers in the extraction groove and find that it is about .004-.006 bigger than your other brass.
View Quote


I came here to post this. Seems like every single time I have an issue with 223 brass being messed up to the point of not fitting in a shellholder, it's LC brass.
4/24/2015 1:08:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote History
Quoted:


I came here to post this. Seems like every single time I have an issue with 223 brass being messed up to the point of not fitting in a shellholder, it's LC brass.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have encountered the cases that won't go into the shell holder and each time it was a Lake City brass. You can put your calipers in the extraction groove and find that it is about .004-.006 bigger than your other brass.


I came here to post this. Seems like every single time I have an issue with 223 brass being messed up to the point of not fitting in a shellholder, it's LC brass.


I noticed that too.

Anyone know if it has anything to do with 5.56mm brass shot through a worn out FN M249 machinegun like our military uses?
4/24/2015 5:16:37 PM EDT
[#10]
The only time this has happened to me it was from a case that had too many extractor marks or too heavy of extractor marks on the case. If your loading hot the marks from the extractor can make the groove too rough to slide into the shell holder. Also, if the case has been dropped on the concrete it can be bugered up.
4/24/2015 9:24:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:


I came here to post this. Seems like every single time I have an issue with 223 brass being messed up to the point of not fitting in a shellholder, it's LC brass.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have encountered the cases that won't go into the shell holder and each time it was a Lake City brass. You can put your calipers in the extraction groove and find that it is about .004-.006 bigger than your other brass.


I came here to post this. Seems like every single time I have an issue with 223 brass being messed up to the point of not fitting in a shellholder, it's LC brass.



Do you think this is brass that was damaged somehow or was it just oversized from the get go ?

I am thinking that even with some kind of over pressure event upon fireing anything that would swell the case at the extractor groove would completely trash the case
4/24/2015 9:44:22 PM EDT
[#12]
I think that this brass didn't get cut deep enough when the ejector grove was made. It didn't appear to be deformed at all.
4/25/2015 9:21:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I have several shoe box containers of prepped .223 brass I am loading for general purpose plinking bullets.

Using Lee LM for final loading: powder, cop, seat, crimp.
Hornady 55 gr fmjbt
25.0 gr TAC
2.225"+/-.005
They shoot respectably out of all of my ARs

I am plugging away pumping out the rounds when I get this one case that will not go into the shell plate. I try it in all five positions as I continue loading, but it wont fit. It gets me thinking why this case wont go so I drop it in a couple of my gun's chambers. Seems to chamber well in all of them I try, so I go to try it in the press again. Still no go.  I am scratching my head over it when I look at it closer and realize that there is no primer in the case. I have no idea where the primer went, although I guess there is the possibility of me slipping up and dropping an unprimed case in. BTW, I hand prime off press.

Then it hits me that this case was likely somehow overpressure since the case head would not fit in the shell plate.


So here is my question/comment:

How do you guys that do all steps on press(like a Dillon 1050 where you can do all the steps in one pass) catch a problem like that? Especially since you are not touching the brass "that" much.

I would have to guess that this case would not slide into a Dillon shell plate either, but with automated case feed systems, how bad would this problem jam up your press?

Since I am hand feeding the cases and bullets, it was easy to catch even though I was a bit slow on diagnosis.

View Quote
lizard:  The case that won't fit in your shell plate was probably subjected to excessive pressure.  This caused the case head and rim to expand to the point where it won't fit, while the primer pocket has expanded and won't hold a primer.  When you encounter one of these no-go cases, just toss the brass and keep moving.  BTW, why do you seat your bullets to 2.225" OAL?  AR 5.56 magazines are sized to take OALs in the 2.255" range and seating the bullets deeper causes pressures to rise, perhaps contributing to the excessively expanded case heads. good luck - CW
4/25/2015 9:36:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Actually, with rifle cases, slightly deeper seat depths are not the same risk as the change in case volumn is not as extreme as with a short fat pistol case. The real pressure risks with rifles start when you inadvertently seat bullets too long and the round is chambered with the bullet jammed into the lands. Then you can see true and dangerous pressure spikes.

All of my 5.56 ammo is seated to a 2.22 COAL as this places a correct length case mouth well into the cannelure of a Hornady 55 FMJ-BT.
4/25/2015 9:44:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote History
Quoted:
Actually, with rifle cases, slightly deeper seat depths are not the same risk as the change in case volumn is not as extreme as with a short fat pistol case. The real pressure risks with rifles start when you inadvertently seat bullets too long and the round is chambered with the bullet jammed into the lands. Then you can see true and dangerous pressure spikes.

All of my 5.56 ammo is seated to a 2.22 COAL as this places a correct length case mouth well into the cannelure of a Hornady 55 FMJ-BT.
View Quote
 Just curious, do you crimp the case mouth into the cannelure?
4/25/2015 10:07:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote History
Quoted:


I never touch the cases.

I dump the fired cases from a tote into a cardboard box and spray them down with a moonshine version of DCL.

Shake the box a few seconds then dump the cases into the case feeder and pull away until I'm tired.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I use a XL650 with case feeder for all my reloads including .223.

A jam up like you had would not cause any powder spill or other wise any major grief.

It's a two step process for me on my press and any bad case would get caught on my prep cycle.

Just pop out the offender and carry on.

Automatic prep set up does my resizing/decapping and trim.



How are you lubing your cases?


I never touch the cases.

I dump the fired cases from a tote into a cardboard box and spray them down with a moonshine version of DCL.

Shake the box a few seconds then dump the cases into the case feeder and pull away until I'm tired.



Have any problems with lube build-up in the case feeder?
4/25/2015 10:07:41 AM EDT
[#17]
I use a lee factory crimp die and just slightly crimp at the cannelure. When I loaded on a single stage I did not do this. Now that I use a progressive it is not an extra step as I had an open station.

When I get a case that does not fit the shell plate I just toss it in the recycle bin. Since this happens to maybe one or two in a thousand cases I do not lose any sleep. Never really notice what headstamp had the problem.
4/25/2015 10:12:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Yes, my friend. Medium crimp with Lee FCD.
2.225"+/- puts the cannelure in an optimal position for crimp if you have trimmed to 1.750".

The case is in the scrap bin now, BUT:
-The case fit in the gun chamber, and
-The case fit a case gauge

Except for not fitting in the shell holder, there was no other way of knowing the case was bad. Well, except for the whole lacking a primer thing.
4/25/2015 3:07:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote History
Quoted:
 Just curious, do you crimp the case mouth into the cannelure?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, with rifle cases, slightly deeper seat depths are not the same risk as the change in case volumn is not as extreme as with a short fat pistol case. The real pressure risks with rifles start when you inadvertently seat bullets too long and the round is chambered with the bullet jammed into the lands. Then you can see true and dangerous pressure spikes.

All of my 5.56 ammo is seated to a 2.22 COAL as this places a correct length case mouth well into the cannelure of a Hornady 55 FMJ-BT.
 Just curious, do you crimp the case mouth into the cannelure?


Yes, a slight crimp.
4/25/2015 11:30:12 PM EDT
[#20]
TAC. Hornsby 55gr. Next up on my reloaded.
4/26/2015 12:07:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote History
Quoted:
Yes, my friend. Medium crimp with Lee FCD.
2.225"+/- puts the cannelure in an optimal position for crimp if you have trimmed to 1.750".

The case is in the scrap bin now, BUT:
-The case fit in the gun chamber, and
-The case fit a case gauge

Except for not fitting in the shell holder, there was no other way of knowing the case was bad. Well, except for the whole lacking a primer thing.
View Quote

The only things I can think of that could cause this is a bur on the front edge of the rim, or a REALLY oversized rim.  If it was at least once-fired, there's a good chance it's a bur anyway.
4/29/2015 12:07:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Just a note too about tossing shell casings. I take a hammer to mine and flatten the neck real fast. It is quick insurance that I will not be tempted to use it again.
Armory Sponsor