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Bullet Swaging, Master thread.. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/11/2013 4:23:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fat_McNasty][Edited]
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I was asked to put together a master thread for all the swaging links in the reloading area (and other good info links), since I post most of them. So here we go! I will be updating this as time allows.
Your asking what is bullet swaging? Its the art of making bullets by squishing lead tubes into copper or brass jackets. Just like the big factories do, except your doing it one setup at a time where they are automated. Its not cheap, equipment and supplies far surpass what you can buy bullets pre made for. But with swaging you can have bullets at any time and any weight or shape. Depending on what dies you have. Right now most places are sold out, Heh I have bullets on demand.. Then there is a time investment of having to make them. A simple run you can do 250 in about 2 hrs. If you bust ass and have a kid stuffing jackets you can get it down to an hr. Mine love being paid in candy. Ok so now Im going to start listing stuff. Resources on both this site and other locations. In the 10 years ive been doing this I have quite a few links to info. Arfcom Links. Put threads here.. How to make a bullet out of a 22 LR case. I got tired of making lead wire. (core mould) 30 cal bullets out of .223 brass. Other Sites. Put info links here.. Corbins.com e-books (lots of great info there) Cast Boolits Swaging section. (lots of great reading there and a link to BTSnipers dies) |
Blah blah blah..
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Hey Fat, love your work and am happy you moved out of GD to here, your a talented man and need to be above that fray.
I know you've said that this is expensive and have given some rough prices, I have nothing for a reloading setup as of yet but like many others in this panic my mental state was shocked into this hobby. Im waiting for prices to subside before picking up equipment and materials. Seeing your work has made me think differently about how preparing for a worse case scenario should be approached. Given the price of this equipment about how many bullets need to be made before it pays for itself? I was rough guessing 10-12,000 but your in a better position than I to say. Just raw materials how much do you save a bullet vs buying bulk? Just trying to decide what direction to go. |
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Originally Posted By wildturkey09:
Hey Fat, love your work and am happy you moved out of GD to here, your a talented man and need to be above that fray. I know you've said that this is expensive and have given some rough prices, I have nothing for a reloading setup as of yet but like many others in this panic my mental state was shocked into this hobby. Im waiting for prices to subside before picking up equipment and materials. Seeing your work has made me think differently about how preparing for a worse case scenario should be approached. Given the price of this equipment about how many bullets need to be made before it pays for itself? I was rough guessing 10-12,000 but your in a better position than I to say. Just raw materials how much do you save a bullet vs buying bulk? Just trying to decide what direction to go. Well I just dropped 8k for a hydrolic press and one 5 die die set. But you can probly do it for about 2k. As for mats on the bullet, it's about 30 cents each. What you pay for when you buy custom bullets is the time spent making them. So if its for your self it's pretty cheap. So 2k buys a lot of mil pulls. A lot. But in times like right now it pays for its self. And let me add if you pop for a swaging press most of them can be used as a single stage too. |
Blah blah blah..
I like the idea of making jackets from copper strip. We go through a lot of 16 oz. hard copper gutter coil 'round here. 
I was thinking about this yesterday and then read your post in the .30 cal projectile thread. $5.25/lb. which is roughly 12"x12" could make a lot of jackets. We have ROLLS of this stuff! |
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Originally Posted By John87:
what are the current backlogs for BT? I would love to get a .22LR -> .224 set. This. I have been eyeballing a set from him, though it may not be until next year until I can get them. Until then I have been gathering lead and .22lr brass. Also, what are your thoughts on making .30cal bullets on a regular single stage press (using a BT kit on a Rock Chucker)? Is it too much for the press to handle? |
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Originally Posted By 94ranger:
Originally Posted By John87:
what are the current backlogs for BT? I would love to get a .22LR -> .224 set. This. I have been eyeballing a set from him, though it may not be until next year until I can get them. Until then I have been gathering lead and .22lr brass. Also, what are your thoughts on making .30cal bullets on a regular single stage press (using a BT kit on a Rock Chucker)? Is it too much for the press to handle? Should be able to. |
Blah blah blah..
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Originally Posted By 94ranger:
Originally Posted By John87:
what are the current backlogs for BT? I would love to get a .22LR -> .224 set. This. I have been eyeballing a set from him, though it may not be until next year until I can get them. Until then I have been gathering lead and .22lr brass. Also, what are your thoughts on making .30cal bullets on a regular single stage press (using a BT kit on a Rock Chucker)? Is it too much for the press to handle? I have a set of BT's 40 to 45 cal 2 step dies. It makes 45 cal bullets from spent 40 brass. I had him polish them out to .452 so I could use them in my 450 bushmaster, 454 Casull and 45. They will size down to .451 if I run them through a .450 sizing die but the accuracy hasn't been the best. I expect that springback is the issue. I've been meaning to try some bonded cores to see if they survive the sizing process with a little better accuracy. I cast my 165gr and 180gr cores with a Lee 40 cal 2 cavity die from range lead recovered from commercial jacketed bullets that I mined from a berm. I figured they would be the perfect match since they started their life as a FMJ or HP bullet. For the 285gr cores I drilled a 357 mold out so that they drop at 114gr. This is the largest core that will fit in an untrimmed 40 case and still make a decent bullet. If I had a point form die I could probably go a little heavier but not much. Some pics of my 200gr HP, 250gr HP and 285gr FP swaged bullets. These were all swaged on my Lee Classic Cast single stage with a longer, stronger handle added. 
The brass must be fully annealed before swaging. I use an old grill with a couple trays made from cheap wal mart brownie pans. An hour on high does the trick. 
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Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Originally Posted By wildturkey09:
Hey Fat, love your work and am happy you moved out of GD to here, your a talented man and need to be above that fray. I know you've said that this is expensive and have given some rough prices, I have nothing for a reloading setup as of yet but like many others in this panic my mental state was shocked into this hobby. Im waiting for prices to subside before picking up equipment and materials. Seeing your work has made me think differently about how preparing for a worse case scenario should be approached. Given the price of this equipment about how many bullets need to be made before it pays for itself? I was rough guessing 10-12,000 but your in a better position than I to say. Just raw materials how much do you save a bullet vs buying bulk? Just trying to decide what direction to go. Well I just dropped 8k for a hydrolic press and one 5 die die set. But you can probly do it for about 2k. As for mats on the bullet, it's about 30 cents each. What you pay for when you buy custom bullets is the time spent making them. So if its for your self it's pretty cheap. So 2k buys a lot of mil pulls. A lot. But in times like right now it pays for its self. And let me add if you pop for a swaging press most of them can be used as a single stage too. Does it really cost 30 cents each for bullet mats? That seems high. Plus the dies??? Just want to clarify. |
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Originally Posted By FL_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Originally Posted By wildturkey09:
Hey Fat, love your work and am happy you moved out of GD to here, your a talented man and need to be above that fray. I know you've said that this is expensive and have given some rough prices, I have nothing for a reloading setup as of yet but like many others in this panic my mental state was shocked into this hobby. Im waiting for prices to subside before picking up equipment and materials. Seeing your work has made me think differently about how preparing for a worse case scenario should be approached. Given the price of this equipment about how many bullets need to be made before it pays for itself? I was rough guessing 10-12,000 but your in a better position than I to say. Just raw materials how much do you save a bullet vs buying bulk? Just trying to decide what direction to go. Well I just dropped 8k for a hydrolic press and one 5 die die set. But you can probly do it for about 2k. As for mats on the bullet, it's about 30 cents each. What you pay for when you buy custom bullets is the time spent making them. So if its for your self it's pretty cheap. So 2k buys a lot of mil pulls. A lot. But in times like right now it pays for its self. And let me add if you pop for a swaging press most of them can be used as a single stage too. Does it really cost 30 cents each for bullet mats? That seems high. Plus the dies??? Just want to clarify. corbin jackets are about .22 cents each and slug of lead from wire is. about 12 cents each. so thats .34 cents each. for a 30 cal 220 gr bullet. but to do a 22 its a free 22 shell case and about .03 cents of lead. |
Blah blah blah..
Hit the corbin site and start reading!
| Here is the thread that shows the current prices from BT Sniper |
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| I would like to swage 115 gr 9 x 19mm Luger / Parabelum bullets from .355 dia out to .365 dia for use as 9 x 18mm Makarov bullets without rupturing the jacket. Does anyone make a die for doing that? |
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The original RCBS die, without post-Whelan improvements.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=315041 Gotta keep your eyes open for deals, but there is as much crap out there with swaging stuff as anywhere.. I bought this die for about 10 bucks, a 257 die for about 15, and lost the 38 auction at about 30 bucks. |
I'm leaning towards setting up to swage , would stuff like this be worth setting a side for .308, some jackets are empty but a lot have lead like in the cut jacket and then there are a bunch like the upper right that there isn't a BT on
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Ever heard of Lexington or Concord circa 1775…
Eh, never mind, more people know who won the last American Idol competition.
Eh, never mind, more people know who won the last American Idol competition.
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Originally Posted By DarkStar45: Bump  .This thread has the archive toggle set to keep it out of the archives. No need to bump. Just set a bookmark to this thread if you want to find it again. |
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Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Are all the swaging threads out of date / missing pictures? Just inherited my dad's Corbin press and trying to see if swaging is something I want to get into. My dad passed earlier this summer so he's not available to pick his brain.  I've handloaded for over 20 years so have some experience pulling a handle but this is a whole different game from what I've gathered in the little research I've done. |
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See if anything on their web site is useful to you. http://www.swage.com/ They have some tutorial material and it should help. |
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 I started into swaging last year, bought a Corbin press and dies. My press and the oak base I built to get the press the right height. Takes more force than case sizing.  Cutting cores here from lead wire.  In the pic I'm forming the lead core for 62 gr bullets made from 22LR spent brass. The strings are lead that is bled off in the core forming die so you end up with a consistent weight and diameter core. After the cores are formed, the lube is removed and they are ready to be inserted into jackets in the Core Swage die.  Wet tumbled, lubed case going into the derimming die. Does just that, takes the rim off. To the left in the tray are the derimmed cases, not turned into 22 caliber jackets. Once the lube is removed they will be ready for swaging. eta, that's all the pics I have. This is not a cheap part of the hobby, the dies are expensive. I have been waiting on a point forming die so I can finish off my bullets. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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I remember looking into this during the Obama shortages. I don't remember the total cost. My recollection is it is expensive ($5k?), there's a long lead for the parts and the finished bullets are not inexpensive, either. Can someone please refresh my memory on the cost and lead time to get up and running if starting from scratch? That would be fixed costs (dies, press, etc) and then the recurring cost to make the bullets, themselves. Assume retail prices if that's easier, even a WAG would suffice. |
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Thanks for the write-up dryflash. Watching some videos has made things pretty clear and it doesn't look too terribly difficult. I need to go look at my dad's dies again. I think all he has dies for is .204. 20 Tactical was his thing but it's not something I'm interested in or shoot. My main interest would be for 6.5 (.264) jacketed with the RBT. Looks like .264 jackets are out of stock right now and a full die set is $1,344.00 - ouch... |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I remember looking into this during the Obama shortages. I don't remember the total cost. My recollection is it is expensive ($5k?), long lead for parts and bullets are not that inexpensive, either. Can someone please refresh my memory on the cost and lead time to get up and running if starting from scratch? That would be fixed costs (dies, press, etc) and then the recurring cost to make the bullets, themselves. Assume retail prices if that's easier, even a WAG would suffice. If you're looking at it solely from a cost perspective, you're going to have to turn out a lot of bullets to break even. Quick guess would be somewhere around 10k-15k .224 bullets. I'm looking at it as a way to make a custom bullet hopefully better than I can buy off the shelf. And, it just looks fun as heck. I enjoy hand loading and would love to be able to make my own bullets. The reading I've done on the rebated boat tail has me very interested. |
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Originally Posted By hdbint: If you're looking at it solely from a cost perspective, you're going to have to turn out a lot of bullets to break even. Quick guess would be somewhere around 10k-15k .224 bullets. I'm looking at it as a way to make a custom bullet hopefully better than I can buy off the shelf. And, it just looks fun as heck. I enjoy hand loading and would love to be able to make my own bullets. The reading I've done on the rebated boat tail has me very interested. That's a considerable number of bullets to make and use just to break even. There's a learning curve, too. I was previously interested due to lack of supply. Still, one has to consider the economics before investing time and money in something, hobby or not. I might also say I have no need for bullets better than I can buy because I cannot out-shoot the bullets I have. There is no time where I fire a shot and say to myself, THAT was a flier. I did not put that shot there. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I remember looking into this during the Obama shortages. I don't remember the total cost. My recollection is it is expensive ($5k?), long lead for parts and bullets are not that inexpensive, either. Can someone please refresh my memory on the cost and lead time to get up and running if starting from scratch? That would be fixed costs (dies, press, etc) and then the recurring cost to make the bullets, themselves. Assume retail prices if that's easier, even a WAG would suffice. 30 cal will be next, about 1.5K for what I want. I have looked at swaging for 20 years and always found it expensive with long wait times. I came into some extra money and took the jump, because it's something I always wanted to do. I'm not one of those people who count how many bullets I have to make "to break even", I just wanted to swage. |
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Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: I'm not one of those people who count how many bullets I have to make "to break even", I just wanted to swage. Sounds good to me - Originally, I looked into it because that might be the only way to get bullets, at all. Back then, I was using break-even cost as a metric to gage whether I should just pay the inflated prices for bullets and wait-out the long lead time or make my own. It turned out, I would have still been vulnerable to availability of lead wire and jackets. In the end, retail supplies loosened and I dropped the idea altogether. Then, a few weeks ago, I went looking for 6mm Sierra 107's, DTAC 115's, etc but there were none to be found. So, I started thinking about this topic again. I've since found the DTACs. |
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Does this sound about right - Mega-Mite press: $1600 RBTO-4 die set: $1200 Case forming die: $300 (makes jackets from spent 22LR rimfire cases) Lead wire: $198/40 pounds ($0.09/bullet @ 110 gr/bullet) Jackets: $625/2500 ($0.25/bullet) I know this part sounds dumb but imagine scrounging all the rimfire cases left behind by people, then retrieving spent bullets from the impact areas (wheel barrow, shovel & strainer). You'd be a one-man range clean up crew. Who would miss all that trashy 22LR debris on the ground? |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Can you cast cores from scrap lead? Yes Is there a simple way to extrude lead wire? No you use a core mold, then cut them to length, I posted a pic on cutting cores. What does a lead casting set up cost? Starting casting from scratch? If you already cast, then it's the cost of the mold and the wire cutter. |
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Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Man, this thread really makes me want to spend money. Maybe after work turnaround season. I really want to get another lathe and make some of my own dies. Will probably not try to build the press tho. Will just pick one of the mature proven presses and make my dies to work with that. Mostly interested in .22 and 7mm bullets. If I was just doing .22s though, I'd probably just get the Larry Blackmon setup w/ dies and 22lr jacket maker and be done with it. |
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Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty: what he said.. I got word that Dave Corbin has passed 2 months back due to covid. Dont know if the shop is staying open or not. Ive been meaning to stop by. Ill try next week. Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty: Originally Posted By dryflash3: what he said.. I got word that Dave Corbin has passed 2 months back due to covid. Dont know if the shop is staying open or not. Ive been meaning to stop by. Ill try next week. Thats too bad. Had to make sure I had everything I needed but ended up with just some bonding agent and an extra punch (in case). Hope it stays open |
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Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty: what he said.. I got word that Dave Corbin has passed 2 months back due to covid. Dont know if the shop is staying open or not. Ive been meaning to stop by. Ill try next week.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Bullet Swaging, Master thread.. (Page 1 of 2)
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