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Posted: 7/18/2017 1:02:26 PM EDT
Seen a video where a cz rep at shot show say these will be available to the public in late 2018. Iam just curious if the 7.62x39 version will have a last round bolt hold open?
Edit to add: cz website is calling the 7.62 version the 807 and the description says it has a bolt catch with bolt release lever. |
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I learned my lesson on proprietary 7.62X39 mags long ago. Nothing beats real AK-47 mags for excellent feeding and magazine insertion speed. I have a Bren 805 and love that it takes AR mags, but proprietary 7.62X39 mags aren't my thing.
I have a Sig556R Gen 2 that takes AK mags and it is awesome. CZ should have modified the magazine well to take AK mags and it would have been ten times better. |
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Yeah, but gen you inherit the support nightmare of every variation of the AK mag and how it interfaces with your weapon. The 556R in the original generation would wear out the lower due to the steel mags being harder than the aluminum lower where they locked up. Or how the PTR-32 works with 7/10 mags due to manufacturing variances.
Don't get me wrong, I have both rifles and enjoy different non-AK 7.62x39 platforms, but from CZ's point of view, they're selling a high quality, premium product, and they aren't going to want their reputation tarnished by the lowest bidder unloading some rusty cache of broke AK mags. It was the right decision on their part. Moreover, it locks the design into the rock-n-lock layout. With the high curvature of the AK mag, this limits use of forward grips or other accessories on the bottom rail. You end up with stuff like the Romanian reverse forward grip to mitigate it, and that's a terrible grip. 
The only place that argument makes much sense is in the US where there is widespread availability of AK mags. Nation-state militaries don't care as much about that. For what it is worth Steyr is using their own homegrown mag for the 7.62x39 prototype AUG, and I again think it is the right choice. |
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I learned my lesson on proprietary 7.62X39 mags long ago. Nothing beats real AK-47 mags for excellent feeding and magazine insertion speed. I have a Bren 805 and love that it takes AR mags, but proprietary 7.62X39 mags aren't my thing. I have a Sig556R Gen 2 that takes AK mags and it is awesome. CZ should have modified the magazine well to take AK mags and it would have been ten times better. |
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Late 2018 huh? So glad I bought the first gen Bren. I expect my form 1 back any day and have the ACR stock assembly ready when the stamp hits. https://youtu.be/KO8KEBEaa8Q |
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Oh shit! I was holding out for the Bren 2... Part of me is happy to hear that, the other part of me cant help but think "2018" is probably going to end up being more like 2023. |
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Yeah, but gen you inherit the support nightmare of every variation of the AK mag and how it interfaces with your weapon. The 556R in the original generation would wear out the lower due to the steel mags being harder than the aluminum lower where they locked up. Or how the PTR-32 works with 7/10 mags due to manufacturing variances. Don't get me wrong, I have both rifles and enjoy different non-AK 7.62x39 platforms, but from CZ's point of view, they're selling a high quality, premium product, and they aren't going to want their reputation tarnished by the lowest bidder unloading some rusty cache of broke AK mags. It was the right decision on their part. Moreover, it locks the design into the rock-n-lock layout. With the high curvature of the AK mag, this limits use of forward grips or other accessories on the bottom rail. You end up with stuff like the Romanian reverse forward grip to mitigate it, and that's a terrible grip.
The only place that argument makes much sense is in the US where there is widespread availability of AK mags. Nation-state militaries don't care as much about that. For what it is worth Steyr is using their own homegrown mag for the 7.62x39 prototype AUG, and I again think it is the right choice. I look forward to the 807 hitting the market, & I hope it spurs Beretta to release the Russian .30 kit for the -100. I've got a bunch of AK mags in the safe. |
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Why? It was developed in 2015. All They have to do is produce a semi auto version with 16" barrels. Quoted:
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Oh shit! I was holding out for the Bren 2... Part of me is happy to hear that, the other part of me cant help but think "2018" is probably going to end up being more like 2023. |
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Following this logic, should every non-AR 5.56 rifle go with a proprietary mag instead of taking advantage of the prolific availability of STANAG mags? Beretta makes a Russian 30 kitted version of the ARX160 for the Kazakstan military that uses AK mags. Since the BHO works off mag follower, it loses that functionality, but it works reliably. I look forward to the 807 hitting the market, & I hope it spurs Beretta to release the Russian .30 kit for the -100. I've got a bunch of AK mags in the safe. I'd like to see the ARX 7.62x39 lower to see how Beretta went about the magazine lockup. I've seen photos of the Kazak 160s with the GLX-160 mounted, and it looks downright impossible to change the magazine. Unless they did something that allows it a more generous "up and in" motion instead of the traditional "rock-n-lock". That said, I'd love to get the 7.62x39 AK-mag kit for the ARX as well. I don't mind playing the "does it fit" game at home, but I'm also not arming a national military. 
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No, you're extending my argument beyond what I was making. Specifically to the 7.62x39 AK magazine, there are more dimensional differences among manufacturers compared to the STANAG type magazine. Moreover, there's a published Draft STANAG 4179 standard that explicitly defines what the dimensions and placement of features on the magazine are. No such standard exists for the AK magazine, and I'd say the manufacturing variances in quality are more extreme than adherents to 4179 are. I'd like to see the ARX 7.62x39 lower to see how Beretta went about the magazine lockup. I've seen photos of the Kazak 160s with the GLX-160 mounted, and it looks downright impossible to change the magazine. Unless they did something that allows it a more generous "up and in" motion instead of the traditional "rock-n-lock". That said, I'd love to get the 7.62x39 AK-mag kit for the ARX as well. I don't mind playing the "does it fit" game at home, but I'm also not arming a national military. I recall the MGI AR Hydra is/was caliber convertible, & featured an adaptive mag well lower that could be configured for AK cal & mags that did not require a rocking motion, but insert & drop out straight like STANAG mags. So, yes, it's possible Beretta did similarly. |
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Well I emailed czusa about the bren 2 for civilians and what it would retail for and this was the response for those interested:
"The Bren 2 for the US civilian market is years out due to the Czech military having contract precedence from our manufacturer. From there, civilian variant production will begin and eventually include the US market. We have no information regarding specifications, ETA, production numbers, or pricing at this time. Thanks, Dereck Miller Sales Assistant" So Dereck Miller seems to have different info than the rep at shot show had. I guess we will have to just keep our fingers crossed and wait till next shot show for more info. |
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Being Czech made, you would think it would be vz58 magazine compatable. |
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Well I emailed czusa about the bren 2 for civilians and what it would retail for and this was the response for those interested: "The Bren 2 for the US civilian market is years out due to the Czech military having contract precedence from our manufacturer. From there, civilian variant production will begin and eventually include the US market. We have no information regarding specifications, ETA, production numbers, or pricing at this time. Thanks, Dereck Miller Sales Assistant" So Dereck Miller seems to have different info than the rep at shot show had. I guess we will have to just keep our fingers crossed and wait till next shot show for more info. |
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