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Posted: 2/19/2011 7:35:10 AM EDT
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I'm in the market to pick up a CZ 22.lr.
I was originally looking at the ($470) CZ 452 FS, but when I went to my local dealer to get some prices, He could get me the ($290) 513 Basic for much cheaper, or even the ($375) 452 Ultra Lux for much cheaper. My questions are, what is the main difference between the 513, and the 452 series. Or Should I look at the 455 Lux which supposedly replaced the 452 Lux. |
| Get anyhing in the 452 line. I have a 452 trainer (lux model with beech stock) and an ultralux (long barrel version). They are awesome especially with iron sights. The 452FS is a beautiful rifle, i'd get one of those sometime if they are still available when I can buy one again, but you can't go wrong with any of the 452 line. I have been hearing less than wonderful criticism about the 455 series, but I haven't handled on, so that's as far as my opinion goes, but I do love the triggers on my 452's. Wish I would've been into bolt 22lr when they were much cheaper and more prevalent. Good luck! |
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Get a 452 while you can, as they are being / will be replaced with the 455 eventually. You may still be able to find a 452 Lux out there.
The 513 is the 'basic', no adjustable trigger, beech stock instead of walnut. Ultra Lux is the long barrel also beech stock, but the adjustable trigger. If I was right-handed I'd probably pick up the Full-Stock, or a regular Lux for shooting with irons, or an American to scope. If you luck out, you wind up with a nice walnut stock (just got a 452 Lux Lefty yesterday - it shoots 1/2 MOA at 50 yards). Be aware, not every model is walnut, and you pay more for that stock. 
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Quoted:
1/2 MOA at 50 yards? is this half inch or are you saying you have rifles that shoot half minute at one range and then something else at another range? I think of half minute as half minute at any range. I really do mean 1/2 MOA at 50 yards - with a .22 so that's about a quarter inch center to center. Looks like a nice little cloverleaf. Any range is a big world for .22 LR - I'd guess the rifle would likely open up past 50 yards, especially at the outdoor ranges I shoot at and the reasonably priced ammo I shoot. I've never even picked up a box of Eley Tenex, nor have I weighed or measured rim thickness of what I do shoot. I'd expect my RRA NM rifle to stay sub MOA out to 600 yards, as that's the course of fire for the rifle. Just because I can shoot little groups with a .22 at 50 yards doesn't hold true for 100 or 200 out of the same rifle. At some point it's no longer the capability of the rifle, but the ballistics of the cartridge that will dictate accuracy. |
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1/2 MOA at 50 yards? is this half inch or are you saying you have rifles that shoot half minute at one range and then something else at another range? I think of half minute as half minute at any range. I really do mean 1/2 MOA at 50 yards - with a .22 so that's about a quarter inch center to center. Looks like a nice little cloverleaf. Any range is a big world for .22 LR - I'd guess the rifle would likely open up past 50 yards, especially at the outdoor ranges I shoot at and the reasonably priced ammo I shoot. I've never even picked up a box of Eley Tenex, nor have I weighed or measured rim thickness of what I do shoot. I'd expect my RRA NM rifle to stay sub MOA out to 600 yards, as that's the course of fire for the rifle. Just because I can shoot little groups with a .22 at 50 yards doesn't hold true for 100 or 200 out of the same rifle. At some point it's no longer the capability of the rifle, but the ballistics of the cartridge that will dictate accuracy. I think with the .22 there are a list of things that can affect the POI at longer ranges, like wind, "spin drift" if it exists, LOL, Maybe also if a round was understabilized, like maybe SSS 60 grain through a 16 twist barrel. I believe that if you are shooting 40 grain sub sonics, and you get say 2 MOA on a regular basis (I know that's not ubershooting) then you will probably get 2 MOA at 200 yards. I shoot out to 400 yards with .22. At that range I hope to hit a very large steel plate. |
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FYI the 513 has vastly inferior iron sights compared to the 452. I looked at getting on and passed on it because of the sights.
I might go for an Ultra Lux but they are obscenely long... could still be a fun rifle though. I wouldn't want to hunt with it. The FS is a classic- they are simply gorgeous and handy rifles. They are discontinued by the way... so if you want one you need to buy it NOW. |
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Quoted:
FYI the 513 has vastly inferior iron sights compared to the 452. I looked at getting on and passed on it because of the sights. I might go for an Ultra Lux but they are obscenely long... could still be a fun rifle though. I wouldn't want to hunt with it. The FS is a classic- they are simply gorgeous and handy rifles. They are discontinued by the way... so if you want one you need to buy it NOW. Damnit. I'm trying to save money!! Don't tell me the rifle I really want is discontinued and I need to buy it now. 
Looks like I'm in the market for a CZ 452 FS or a CZ 452 Lux......or both. |
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Try before you buy.
I recently tried a 452 mannlicher at the range, and realized that I don't really like the "hogback" European style stock (on the Lux,Ultra Lux,basic,military training rifle,etc) for a scoped rifle, or the long trigger pull. I'm an American- I like my stocks straight like on the American, Varmint,or Style CZs or with a Weatherby Monte Carlo type comb. That said, the darn 452 Mannlicher shot into less than an inch for 5 shots at 50yds, with a cheap Bushnell scope and bulk pack ammo and that long trigger pull.
The 455 is the way to go if you even think you want a .22 magnum or .17 HMR,due to the interchangeable barrel. Personally I'd got 455 American. It has dual action screws, a straight stock built for scope use,and the new switch barrel system. The jury is still out on whether or not the 455 will be as accurate as the 452 series. That's the big thing that is slowing 455 sales I think. As a result,there are some deals to be had from wholesalers like Whittakers in KY. If you're fine with the enormous 29" barrel (which is very quiet,BTW), the Ultra Lux 452 is a great rifle for an iron sight shooter. The basic I might pass on IMHO, due to the trigger... I'm not 100% certain they can be upgraded like the other 452 triggers. Good luck! |
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Really need a couple of CZ 452s.
The iron sight ones (mine is a trainer, my lefty son's is a Lux) have among the sights available. The tangent rear is graduated in 25M increments from 25-200M. Once the favored 40gr HV ammo is dialed with the elevation-adjustment front sight, it works just like it's supposed to. Prone 200yd 8" plates(held a little low due to yd/M change, like I can the tell the difference with MY eyes) I can hit the plates. Set for the 100M, silhouette pistol rams topple with ease. I like the hog's back. |
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The 513 line is their base, no frills line. Personally I would step up to a 452 or 455. The 452's are all winners, which one to get depends on your tastes and what you plan to do with it?
A lot of people are skeptical about the 455 line, mainly because the 452 is a proven winner and people hate change, especially when the "old" one is so well loved. That said, I think the 455 will eventually be every bit as popular and respected as the 452 line. I have a 452 American and Scout which I love but I like every single change they made to the 455 American. Standard 11mm rail, standard 2 action screws, better machining on the receivers, a toned down blueing, a better profile for the barrel and the quick change barrel feature are all winners in my book. The only change to the 455 line so far that I don't like is they changed the rear sight used on the Lux to a cheaper version. If I was going to buy a Lux today, I would look for a 452 model. Now here's the best part, because most people are so hesitant about the new 455 models, most people are still trying to buy up all the 452's while they still can. Because of that the 455's have not been selling as well as CZ hoped. Because of that, prices on the 455's have been coming down in an attempt to lure more people into buying one. Right now Whittakers Guns is selling brand new 455 American's for $299.99!!! That's a smoking deal and if I had $300 right now, I would be jumping all over that! Here's the link... http://www.whittakerguns.com/ It's listed right there on the home page. |
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I just bought a 452 Trainer from a friend PCS'ing to England: I haven't shot it yet, but am very impressed with the rifle's construction.
Having just sold my Savage .17 HMR, I am looking to buy a 455 American in .17 HMR; I really need some input before I buy. Seems the consensus is that there are improvements in the newer design, but haven's seen an accuracy comparison. B_S EDIT: I just received the 455 in .17 HMR. This was the purchase from Bud's that got my CC hacked and fraudulently charged. The 452/455 CZ rings are really nice; I don't think I have ever seen such heavy rings on a rimfire! I haven't fired it yet, but hope to shortly. B_S |
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Quoted:
Get a 452 while you can, as they are being / will be replaced with the 455 eventually. You may still be able to find a 452 Lux out there. If you luck out, you wind up with a nice walnut stock (just got a 452 Lux Lefty yesterday - it shoots 1/2 MOA at 50 yards). Be aware, not every model is walnut, and you pay more for that stock. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_tf7c6aGz8Sw/TWB5ZxdFrHI/AAAAAAAAIZo/8Wnoj4iX6vY/s288/IMG_7973.JPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_tf7c6aGz8Sw/TWB5cScLzeI/AAAAAAAAIZ0/FVrmCYT-KeI/s288/IMG_7974.JPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_tf7c6aGz8Sw/TWB5cbmThiI/AAAAAAAAIZ8/_RAiZJjPtI0/s288/IMG_7975.JPG The wood is good! 452V 
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