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Brass gets pretty hot when you cut it. I would worry more about a hot blade getting the 10th or 40th or whatever case hot enough to cook the primer.... But I'm sort of squeamish that way. 
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"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: Brass gets pretty hot when you cut it. I would worry more about a hot blade getting the 10th or 40th or whatever case hot enough to cook the primer.... But I'm sort of squeamish that way. The HF blade doesn't get hot - it's barely warm after cutting a case, and it's not like you're cycling cases through it automatically. Even with the jig you have a certain amount of dwell time (2-3 second with the blade spinning) between cases that the blade looses all heat. I just finished up a batch of about 10K pieces of M200 to 300BLK conversion for a customer. In that lot, I tried to catch live blanks, but after the first 3 or 4, realized I wasn't going to catch the live rounds with dimpled primers, so just went with it. I did catch about 30 live rounds (the star crimp still had a decent amount of lacquer on the live ones), but chopped way more than that. Even though the M200's have only a small amount of powder (in comparison to a ball round), it's pretty obvious when the powder spills out. But at that point, what do you do? chamber each round and attempt to fire it? |
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Originally Posted By DyNo541:
Originally Posted By coug91:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Has anyone figured out a way to cut these into viable cases while still retaining the live primer?  The HF mini chop saw will leave the primers live... but you still have to form the brass (lube contamination may be an issue). Ummm, you think it's safe to cut live ammo with a power saw? I think that decision has quite a bit to do with the caliber. Some of these long range cartridges would make quite a mess if you touched them off without a chamber shroud. 
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This has been interesting reading. I'm working on a similar project:
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f10/new-223-a-10707/ |
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Originally Posted By NZ_Stalker: This has been interesting reading. I'm working on a similar project: http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f10/new-223-a-10707/ |
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Originally Posted By WI57:
Ok, this was the 5th firing, and the brass is starting to look nasty. I'm resisting the urge to wet SS tumble the brass for the sake of science. 
Here they all are, the sharpie is so I can ID the ones with problems. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022162.jpg I have 6 with splitting necks now, the 4 from before are really bad, and two new ones. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022163.jpg All the heads look fine, no leaking or warping. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022164.jpg The two with the shiny ring at their base never got any worse. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022165.jpg I have 4 remaining brass that I would consider good enough to load, but I'm shooting all 10 tomorrow to finish them off. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022166.jpg I have inspected every case with my separation tool, I'll cut them all up and see what they look like inside anyways. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022167.jpg Again, they average 1.748" after firing. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022168.jpg After sizing and trimming the cracks are barely noticeable. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022169.jpg Primer pockets look normal, dirty but normal. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022170.jpg Loaded up for their final show, now the cracked necks stand out. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022171.jpg http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022172.jpg http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022173.jpg I guess they have enough web at the base to prevent a blowout. They haven't shown any signs of failing yet. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg76/gi57/Blanks/P2022175.jpg Tomorrow I am going to try to hit the range with some accuracy loads made from blank brass. Going to try some 69gr and 77gr SMK's over varget and see what I can get for groups. I'll try to get AMUshooter10's chronograph so I can do so chrono testing. Stand by for Friday nights final testing of the original 10 and the accuracy test results. Oh, and as a disclaimer, if you try this please load at your own risk, start low and work up like any new brass. ETA- I forgot to add, I called all over trying to find anybody that knows anything about the 5.56mm M200 blank cartridge and how its made. First I called Lake City again, they guy running the phones must hate me because I was disconnected twice after asking to talk to someone in Small Arms Munitions or a technician. Then I figured I'd try Picatinny Arsenal, that was a swing and a miss. The lady I spoke with had no clue what I was asking about. She transferred me to some guy I couldn't understand who gave me a 4 digit code to talk to some Small Arms guys and those guys didn't have a clue about the blank either. Then I tried Radford Army Ammunition Plant, left two messages with a guy who will probably never call me back. As a last ditch effort I emailed TACOM Warrens and hopefully they can point me in the right direction of where to look for info about how the blank is made. Whew... You know what works better than a feeler as a case head separation inspection tool? A green laser pointer. Green because its the easiest color for the eye to see. I have been doing this for a long time. I just put 50 cases in a pistol ammo tray and run the laser pointer over each case and look inside. In .223 the case usually seperates high enough up the case neck that its easy to spot. In rimmed cartridges and belted magnums its much lower down and harder to spot but with time you will start to pick up the shadows that are formed when you get the angle of the pointer right. Well hope someone reads this and can make use of it. |
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Believe it or not, I did this back in the mid 80s, when I was big into reloading 556, and had a lot of blank ammo around from the stint in the Army. (We hated making our weapons dirty with that stuff... wonder how much is buried in Benning?)
I didn't have the benifit of the innernet way back then, I just figured I'd cut a few and try them out. They all worked, and I also had very similar results to the OP. Neck cracks after three or so reloadings. I just scrapped the casings after 3 or so loadings. Never had any other problems with shooting that stuff. It's been a long time since I reloaded 556, but this thread might just be enough for me to crack open the reloading stuff again... Thanks to the OP for such an in-depth post, and taking the time to actually DO the work, instead of believing all the nay sayers. Fortunately, back before the net, it was easier, as I had no nay sayers. :) GROG |
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Originally Posted By coug91:
That's novel. Pretty cool. You may be over annealing your parent cases, which is why the cases are buckling. How many steps are you using to expand/form the new neck/shoulder? Originally Posted By coug91:
Originally Posted By NZ_Stalker:
This has been interesting reading. I'm working on a similar project: http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f10/new-223-a-10707/ Got the annealing sorted out now. Running through a 223Rem die and then 270WSM, back in the 223 with the spacer under the die, this forms a slight shoulder to get the headspace about right. Fire Forming the rest from there. Working well so far and just doing the load development now. |
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Originally Posted By coug91:
The M200's also make nice 300BLK brass... and if you want to be able to readily identify your supersonic from your subsonic, the knurling works for that. [email=mailto:http://www.flickr.com/photos/92572368@N08/8896879150/]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2852/8896879150_8cdd08ac3d_c.jpg[/email] DHK_2462 by Coug91, on Flickr must let us know how they shoot... |
1Andy2: it's just a question of if we decide to stop throwing coal in the furnace and lean on the brakes or if we're going to blow the boiler up getting to Full Retard'sville.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
This thread is "toggled" (won't go into the archives) so no need to bump. It will be at the end of the forum when you need it. Or, the thread author can add a link to the tacked thread put up at the top of the forum for that purpose. Makes it easier to hunt up. |
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Originally Posted By BURN: must let us know how they shoot... Originally Posted By BURN: Originally Posted By coug91: The M200's also make nice 300BLK brass... and if you want to be able to readily identify your supersonic from your subsonic, the knurling works for that. [email=mailto:http://www.flickr.com/photos/92572368@N08/8896879150/]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2852/8896879150_8cdd08ac3d_c.jpg[/email] DHK_2462 by Coug91, on Flickr must let us know how they shoot... |
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Originally Posted By boomfab:
I tried this with a 7.62 LC blank a long time ago. Didn't work too well as the 7.62 blank neck thickness was very excessive. There was a report YEARS AGO (pre internet) of a guy who had a custom barrel/chamber made to shoot 7.62x51 blanks loaded with a .17 caliber bullet. It would have been interesting to see what velocity that round produced....5,000 fps maybe? Hell, years ago I had RCBS (Huntington Die Specialties) manufacture a .380 trim die. I was using 5.56 brass for my M-11 .380 sub gun. I would cut down 5.56 brass and inside neck ream it. It would leave a nice shoulder to seat the bullet against, a charge of Bullseye Powder and I was GTG. 
Because of the shoulder, I didn't have to super crimp the bullets to prevent them being rattled back into the case under full auto fire. |
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"Take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your clothes and buy one!" Jesus Christ - Luke 22.36
NRA Endowment Member
| I may have missed it but if you're shooting in cold weather and your load is warm, I don't know that I'd want to try this in warmer weather where pressures will go up. Was this considered? Would some of those cracks happen sooner in warmer weather with the same load? |
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Originally Posted By memsu:
I'm bringing this thread back from the dead again. I just received a bag of about 500 7.62X51 M82 blanks. All LC 69 brass. Think I can convert the brass anneal it and load it up? That may depend on which version of the M82 those cases are. The long-nose cases I have from the 1980s appear to be VERY thick. I don't think they're appropriate for loading as live rounds. If they look like this, I'd cut one open and see how thick the whole case is. 
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