Armory Sponsor
Posted: 9/1/2011 6:16:55 PM EDT
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So I have a bunch of goodies coming from an auction. Talked with them today and they will only ship to my 'premises' address and not my mailing address.
Nobody is home during the day at the premises address. None of the purchases in the past have had a problem shipping to my mailing address and this has worked just fine. Googled and found a cite to an ATF newsletter page which explains on page 8 that alternate shipping addresses are okay. Emailed this to them. Any ideas on how to move these blockheads off their position on shipping? |
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I've tried a couple of times to have things shipped to another address for safety reasons and have been refused due to liability. I believe you can add other authorized addresses to your license with a letter to the ATF.
You'll have to file an update form with the ATF with a change to your shipping and license address. They'll probably issue a new license in a couple of weeks. |
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I've tried a couple of times to have things shipped to another address for safety reasons and have been refused due to liability. I believe you can add other authorized addresses to your license with a letter to the ATF. You'll have to file an update form with the ATF with a change to your shipping and license address. They'll probably issue a new license in a couple of weeks. Thanks. That was sorta what I was thinking. Since they are going to ignore the ATF regs and do what they want, I'll give them a downpayment on the items, send off for the change and then finish with their money when I can get them the new license or amended one rather. I guess the principle is what kills me, "We can only ship to the premises address because of ATF regs........Ok, here are the ATF regs and the ATF's interpretation of them which says you can........no, we still can't becasue of liability .....what liability? ...For violating the ATF regs......but you are not violating the regs, here is your proof. " Sorry, just really pissed off. Thanks again. |
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They can legally only ship to the addresses on your license. If your shipping address is on the license you are fine Yes, the address I asked them to ship to is the mailing address on my license. That matters not to them. Premises address or bust. Quoted:
Just make the shipper require a signature. UPS or USPS will try to deliver it, but since you are not there they will leave a note. Have them hold the package of pick-up.... I asked about allowing pickup at the facility. They said they would not allow that. Must be delivered to the premises and signed for........ |
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Just make the shipper require a signature. UPS or USPS will try to deliver it, but since you are not there they will leave a note. Have them hold the package of pick-up.... I asked about allowing pickup at the facility. They said they would not allow that. Must be delivered to the premises and signed for........ By "they", I guess you mean the seller not UPS? Don't tell the seller your plans, only tell them that you want the package to require a signature. UPS has to try to deliver it once. Then you just call the number on the door tag and tell them that you will swing by the hub to pick it up the next day. |
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They can legally only ship to the addresses on your license. If your shipping address is on the license you are fine That is not true. There is nothing in the law or regulation that requires shipment to an address on your FFL. However, very few, if any, suppliers will ship to any other address unless the licensee is personally known to them or a long time customer. |
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So I have a bunch of goodies coming from an auction. Talked with them today and they will only ship to my 'premises' address and not my mailing address. Nobody is home during the day at the premises address. None of the purchases in the past have had a problem shipping to my mailing address and this has worked just fine. Googled and found a cite to an ATF newsletter page which explains on page 8 that alternate shipping addresses are okay. Emailed this to them. Any ideas on how to move these blockheads off their position on shipping? I'm an 01FFL and have two addresses on my FFL.......one premises and the mailing address. I ask the shipper to only ship to my mailing address for the same reason you do....I'm a teacher and not home during the day to sign for packages. When I email my FFL I include shipping instructions as well as a link to the ATF FFL Newsletter where they explain how it is completely legal to ship to ANY address the receiving dealer uses. Some refuse to believe it, some want to stubbornly argue that ATF told them differently, some want me to give them a variance letter and a few don't bother to even read the ATF info. I don't mind the misinformed. I do mind the chickenshits like Bravo Company. They told my customer it was a federal crime to ship anywhere other than the premises..........which isn't true. Wouldn't answer my emails or return phone calls. I used to refer quite a few customers their way. Never again. To answer your question, give the blockhead seller the choice....ship to the address of your choice or keep the guns. |
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So I have a bunch of goodies coming from an auction. Talked with them today and they will only ship to my 'premises' address and not my mailing address. Nobody is home during the day at the premises address. None of the purchases in the past have had a problem shipping to my mailing address and this has worked just fine. Googled and found a cite to an ATF newsletter page which explains on page 8 that alternate shipping addresses are okay. Emailed this to them. Any ideas on how to move these blockheads off their position on shipping? I'm an 01FFL and have two addresses on my FFL.......one premises and the mailing address. I ask the shipper to only ship to my mailing address for the same reason you do....I'm a teacher and not home during the day to sign for packages. When I email my FFL I include shipping instructions as well as a link to the ATF FFL Newsletter where they explain how it is completely legal to ship to ANY address the receiving dealer uses. Some refuse to believe it, some want to stubbornly argue that ATF told them differently, some want me to give them a variance letter and a few don't bother to even read the ATF info. I don't mind the misinformed. I do mind the chickenshits like Bravo Company. They told my customer it was a federal crime to ship anywhere other than the premises..........which isn't true. Wouldn't answer my emails or return phone calls. I used to refer quite a few customers their way. Never again. To answer your question, give the blockhead seller the choice....ship to the address of your choice or keep the guns. I would, but they are auction guns. I talked to the ignorant SOB in Orange, California at LittleJohn's Auction Service and just as you experienced, first he said it was against the law for him to ship to anywhere but the premises address, then when I brought up the ATF info and cite to it, he changed and said that the local ATF told him they interpreted it that he can only ship to the premises address and their interpretation overrules anything on the ATF site. I will give the ignoramus credit for admitting that he had not viewed the information I had sent, but made it clear it did not matter. So I made a downpayment and told them I would send a check for the rest as obviously I was going to have to go through the ATF to amend my license to reflect the mailing address as both the premises and mailing address and that would take some time. Oh, he also said I could choose a local FFL to receive the guns, I asked him if he was gonna pay the couple of hundred dollars that was gonna cost me and he said no, so i said well there is your answer to that one. So i guess my next question is...what will I run into when I call the 1-800- number at the ATF? Will they be helpful, bureaucratic, unhelpful....? I am also gonna see what they say about their local ATFs overriding the printed ATF regs...... |
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So I have a bunch of goodies coming from an auction. Talked with them today and they will only ship to my 'premises' address and not my mailing address. Nobody is home during the day at the premises address. None of the purchases in the past have had a problem shipping to my mailing address and this has worked just fine. Googled and found a cite to an ATF newsletter page which explains on page 8 that alternate shipping addresses are okay. Emailed this to them. Any ideas on how to move these blockheads off their position on shipping? I'm an 01FFL and have two addresses on my FFL.......one premises and the mailing address. I ask the shipper to only ship to my mailing address for the same reason you do....I'm a teacher and not home during the day to sign for packages. When I email my FFL I include shipping instructions as well as a link to the ATF FFL Newsletter where they explain how it is completely legal to ship to ANY address the receiving dealer uses. Some refuse to believe it, some want to stubbornly argue that ATF told them differently, some want me to give them a variance letter and a few don't bother to even read the ATF info. I don't mind the misinformed. I do mind the chickenshits like Bravo Company. They told my customer it was a federal crime to ship anywhere other than the premises..........which isn't true. Wouldn't answer my emails or return phone calls. I used to refer quite a few customers their way. Never again. To answer your question, give the blockhead seller the choice....ship to the address of your choice or keep the guns. I would, but they are auction guns. I talked to the ignorant SOB in Orange, California at LittleJohn's Auction Service and just as you experienced, first he said it was against the law for him to ship to anywhere but the premises address, then when I brought up the ATF info and cite to it, he changed and said that the local ATF told him they interpreted it that he can only ship to the premises address and their interpretation overrules anything on the ATF site. I will give the ignoramus credit for admitting that he had not viewed the information I had sent, but made it clear it did not matter. So I made a downpayment and told them I would send a check for the rest as obviously I was going to have to go through the ATF to amend my license to reflect the mailing address as both the premises and mailing address and that would take some time. Oh, he also said I could choose a local FFL to receive the guns, I asked him if he was gonna pay the couple of hundred dollars that was gonna cost me and he said no, so i said well there is your answer to that one. So i guess my next question is...what will I run into when I call the 1-800- number at the ATF? Will they be helpful, bureaucratic, unhelpful....? I am also gonna see what they say about their local ATFs overriding the printed ATF regs...... Little Johns? Yeah, they just flat ignored my instructions the first time they shipped guns to me. UPS left them on my doorstep. IDIOTS. Ask for the name and phone # of their IOI (Industry Operations Investigator)......odds are VERY strong he told them no such thing. BUT.....i have had to call the ATF Western Regional Directors office because some IOI's in her region were telling dealers incorrect information......her exact words were "I'm sick of this...we've covered that several times..." ("that" being shipping to an address other than the premises). The ATF 800 number will only refer you to a local office. |
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Thank you very much for the information. Very helpful.
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So I have a bunch of goodies coming from an auction. Talked with them today and they will only ship to my 'premises' address and not my mailing address. Nobody is home during the day at the premises address. None of the purchases in the past have had a problem shipping to my mailing address and this has worked just fine. Googled and found a cite to an ATF newsletter page which explains on page 8 that alternate shipping addresses are okay. Emailed this to them. Any ideas on how to move these blockheads off their position on shipping? I'm an 01FFL and have two addresses on my FFL.......one premises and the mailing address. I ask the shipper to only ship to my mailing address for the same reason you do....I'm a teacher and not home during the day to sign for packages. When I email my FFL I include shipping instructions as well as a link to the ATF FFL Newsletter where they explain how it is completely legal to ship to ANY address the receiving dealer uses. Some refuse to believe it, some want to stubbornly argue that ATF told them differently, some want me to give them a variance letter and a few don't bother to even read the ATF info. I don't mind the misinformed. I do mind the chickenshits like Bravo Company. They told my customer it was a federal crime to ship anywhere other than the premises..........which isn't true. Wouldn't answer my emails or return phone calls. I used to refer quite a few customers their way. Never again. To answer your question, give the blockhead seller the choice....ship to the address of your choice or keep the guns. I would, but they are auction guns. I talked to the ignorant SOB in Orange, California at LittleJohn's Auction Service and just as you experienced, first he said it was against the law for him to ship to anywhere but the premises address, then when I brought up the ATF info and cite to it, he changed and said that the local ATF told him they interpreted it that he can only ship to the premises address and their interpretation overrules anything on the ATF site. I will give the ignoramus credit for admitting that he had not viewed the information I had sent, but made it clear it did not matter. So I made a downpayment and told them I would send a check for the rest as obviously I was going to have to go through the ATF to amend my license to reflect the mailing address as both the premises and mailing address and that would take some time. Oh, he also said I could choose a local FFL to receive the guns, I asked him if he was gonna pay the couple of hundred dollars that was gonna cost me and he said no, so i said well there is your answer to that one. So i guess my next question is...what will I run into when I call the 1-800- number at the ATF? Will they be helpful, bureaucratic, unhelpful....? I am also gonna see what they say about their local ATFs overriding the printed ATF regs...... Little Johns? Yeah, they just flat ignored my instructions the first time they shipped guns to me. UPS left them on my doorstep. IDIOTS. Ask for the name and phone # of their IOI (Industry Operations Investigator)......odds are VERY strong he told them no such thing. BUT.....i have had to call the ATF Western Regional Directors office because some IOI's in her region were telling dealers incorrect information......her exact words were "I'm sick of this...we've covered that several times..." ("that" being shipping to an address other than the premises). The ATF 800 number will only refer you to a local office. |
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