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Posted: 1/2/2014 8:37:15 AM EDT
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I just bought a Dillon 223 case gage. Some of my resized brass will fit the gage and some will be a little high. I case prep on a 650 but I took the sizer die out and put it in my single stage press and adjusted it down so that the shell holder just touches the die. I still get high brass. I am using Lee dies do other dies push the shoulder down more.
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Quoted:
Lower die in press until case gauges. Turn down die 1/16 of a turn at a time until this happens. Listen to this advice. I made the exact same post as you when I started reloading .223 on a 650. It sounds counter-intuitive, but you will likely have to turn the die down beyond the point where it contacts the shell plate. It's called "camming over" and will take more effort to get the ram to run all the way down, but it will solve your problem. |
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Quoted:
It sounds counter-intuitive, but you will likely have to turn the die down beyond the point where it contacts the shell plate. It's called "camming over" and will take more effort to get the ram to run all the way down, but it will solve your problem. can anyone explain the physics of this. It's made me scratch my head for some time. My setup guide said to raise the plate full up (closest to die), screw the sizing die down till it touches the plate, back the plate off, screw the die down another 1/4 turn. My logic says that once the die hits the plate, that's it. No further sizing is possible? |
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Quoted:
can anyone explain the physics of this. It's made me scratch my head for some time. My setup guide said to raise the plate full up (closest to die), screw the sizing die down till it touches the plate, back the plate off, screw the die down another 1/4 turn. My logic says that once the die hits the plate, that's it. No further sizing is possible? Quoted:
Quoted:
It sounds counter-intuitive, but you will likely have to turn the die down beyond the point where it contacts the shell plate. It's called "camming over" and will take more effort to get the ram to run all the way down, but it will solve your problem. can anyone explain the physics of this. It's made me scratch my head for some time. My setup guide said to raise the plate full up (closest to die), screw the sizing die down till it touches the plate, back the plate off, screw the die down another 1/4 turn. My logic says that once the die hits the plate, that's it. No further sizing is possible? The press is flexible and has slop in the hinges. Under the stresses associated with resizing, it will move a little bit. There is also some amount of 'slop" in the linkage and in the interface between the ram and the shell holder. You will not feel any of this under hand-tightening pressures (unless it's really bad) but when you resize, things move. The "camming over" is actually the press taking up all that slop and forcing the case into the die farther than it would without "camming over". I put "camming over" in quotes but it isn't really camming over in the proper sense such as when it is applied to mechanisms such as over-center hinges. |
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shell plate kit
you could give these a try if you want to get even more precise. |
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Quoted:
can anyone explain the physics of this. It's made me scratch my head for some time. My setup guide said to raise the plate full up (closest to die), screw the sizing die down till it touches the plate, back the plate off, screw the die down another 1/4 turn. My logic says that once the die hits the plate, that's it. No further sizing is possible? Quoted:
Quoted:
It sounds counter-intuitive, but you will likely have to turn the die down beyond the point where it contacts the shell plate. It's called "camming over" and will take more effort to get the ram to run all the way down, but it will solve your problem. can anyone explain the physics of this. It's made me scratch my head for some time. My setup guide said to raise the plate full up (closest to die), screw the sizing die down till it touches the plate, back the plate off, screw the die down another 1/4 turn. My logic says that once the die hits the plate, that's it. No further sizing is possible? It's important to differentiate between equipment and caliber. If using a single stage (Rock Chucker type) press, and resizing pistol brass, and you have a carbide resizing die, you MUST kiss the shellholder, then back off a bit, as you can break the carbide insert if you don't. With a progress press and rifle brass you can flex things a bit and get the job done, as that last tiny bit may be just what you need to get things within spec. 
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Quoted:
It's important to differentiate between equipment and caliber. If using a single stage (Rock Chucker type) press, and resizing pistol brass, and you have a carbide resizing die, you MUST kiss the shellholder, then back off a bit, as you can break the carbide insert if you don't. With a progress press and rifle brass you can flex things a bit and get the job done, as that last tiny bit may be just what you need to get things within spec. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It sounds counter-intuitive, but you will likely have to turn the die down beyond the point where it contacts the shell plate. It's called "camming over" and will take more effort to get the ram to run all the way down, but it will solve your problem. can anyone explain the physics of this. It's made me scratch my head for some time. My setup guide said to raise the plate full up (closest to die), screw the sizing die down till it touches the plate, back the plate off, screw the die down another 1/4 turn. My logic says that once the die hits the plate, that's it. No further sizing is possible? It's important to differentiate between equipment and caliber. If using a single stage (Rock Chucker type) press, and resizing pistol brass, and you have a carbide resizing die, you MUST kiss the shellholder, then back off a bit, as you can break the carbide insert if you don't. With a progress press and rifle brass you can flex things a bit and get the job done, as that last tiny bit may be just what you need to get things within spec. I can understand the plate flexing, not allowing the case to be sized enough, but if the plate can't flex, or does flex, none of the other stages will cause flex (push down on the plate) as much as the sizing station. Why screw the die down further after it touches the plate? The only way it could size more after touching, such as in a single stage press. is squishing the sizing die, and that isn't happening. I'll call and ask why they give this instruction, but it is not inconsistent with other directions I've read. "Screw the full length sizer in until it touches the shell holder. Then lower the ram and screw the die in 1/4 to 1/3 turn more. Raise the ram and tighten the lock ring finger tight." I understand plate flex from reloading pistol rounds on a progressive some years ago. From that experience, I would not reload anything more than light, necked case, plinking ammo on a progressive. |
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Troolslayer explained it. What don't you understand?
The fact is the shell holder is NOT toughing the shell plate. You may think it is but it is not. Sure it is without any load on it but when you size the case the load is much greater than you would believe. This force is greatest when the case shoulder contacts the die and this happens very near the end of the stroke. If you have "a feeler gage set" try it. I bet you can gage the gap. It only takes a couple thousands of and inch to make a difference some times. |
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Quoted:
That makes scene. The linkage slop did not to me. Will play with the case gauge next time I'm on the bench. Well maybe "linkage slop" is a harsh term but it is the bearing clearance if you will between the linkage pins and the bores they connect to that causes the gap. When the force is pushed all to one side of each connection the overall travel of the ram is reduced. The next time you have a case in a full length die at the top of the stroke gently work the press handle up and down with out moving the case in the die and observe the linkage pins and feel the clearance. |
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