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Posted: 10/18/2015 11:54:00 PM EDT
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So does it? I'm doing case prep, the other folks on the range don't reload and were kind enough to do plenty of mag dumps, so I have pounds upon pounds of brass to work through.
I'm doing a quick cleaning, depriming, sorting by case weight, cleaning again, resorting by weight, in preparation of loading. Still need to resize for length. Cases are running ~90gr. through 100gr. Everything from Radway Green, Lake City, Turkish stuff, Tulammo brass, etc. I want to try and load some stupid accurate 5.56mm rounds, I figure consistent projo weight, consistent case weight, consistent charge weight, and even consistent primer weight will all help with that. I have 77gr. Nosler OTM slugs. These have weighed out with within .2gr round to round. I was planning on using IMR 3031, as it's the powder I have in quantity right now. Do heavier cases make a difference? Or should I just worry about consistency case to case within lots? Or does it even matter. I'm new to reloading, so I've pretty much just been cleaning, depriming, and sorting brass so far. ETA: I've got about 20lbs of 5.56mm brass, cleaned, deprimed, and sorted to within a gr. I.E. 95.0 - 95.9 gr., for example. |
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Head stamp only for me.
You can have same mfg, different runs and be .02 ~ difference, if not more. You get too anal, all you'll do is pull your hair out. If you were shooting bench rest with some $$$ toy sure. I know some of the LD shooters here weigh cases and bullet. You left out what rifle you're shooting. Forgot to ask, you weighing each bullet & primer too  Might as well go all in.
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What I think matters if you want to load for accuracy, |
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I sort my 223 cases by headstamp. I never weigh cases. Weight can indicate case capacity, but is not a reliable tool for this. Yes it is a reliable tool if done within the parameters of the same headstamp. But the rifle might not notice because it is inaccurate or the person handloading is incompetent. I would sort by headstamp at least, just to keep pressures in check because 77gr accuracy loads tend to run hot. |
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What I think matters if you want to load for accuracy, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/452494_Newbie_in_pursuit_of_accuracy.html&page=1#i4428486 Thank you, for that. It's quite helpful. |
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I sort my 223 cases by headstamp. I never weigh cases. Weight can indicate case capacity, but is not a reliable tool for this. Interesting. I didn't know this, weighing every case, I've gotten pretty good at pegging headstamp based on case weight. LC tends to be 91 - 93 gr. FC 92 - 95 gr. RORG 94 - 96 gr. GFL 97 - 99 gr. |
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Head stamp only for me. You can have same mfg, different runs and be .02 ~ difference, if not more. You get too anal, all you'll do is pull your hair out. If you were shooting bench rest with some $$$ toy sure. I know some of the LD shooters here weigh cases and bullet. You left out what rifle you're shooting. Forgot to ask, you weighing each bullet & primer too Might as well go all in.
Couple different uppers. All AR based. PSA 20" upper, KAC non-free float rail. Leupold 1.25-4x20 VXR, on a LaRue SPR1.5 mount hobby built 14.5" upper, CHF DD pencil profile barrel, DD free-float rail. Perm attached Blackout FH and T-1. 10.5", mini EO Tech, Magpul furniture. Lower is a Spike's with generic parts kit. Looking to upgrade to a Gieselle. Vltor A5 buffer and tube. |
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Yes it is a reliable tool if done within the parameters of the same headstamp. But the rifle might not notice because it is inaccurate or the person handloading is incompetent. I would sort by headstamp at least, just to keep pressures in check because 77gr accuracy loads tend to run hot. Quoted:
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I sort my 223 cases by headstamp. I never weigh cases. Weight can indicate case capacity, but is not a reliable tool for this. Yes it is a reliable tool if done within the parameters of the same headstamp. But the rifle might not notice because it is inaccurate or the person handloading is incompetent. I would sort by headstamp at least, just to keep pressures in check because 77gr accuracy loads tend to run hot. Yeah, I noticed 77 gr. loadings tended to be compressed with IMR 3031. |
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Some of the reasons to sort to headstamps, Brass alloy the same. Predicable springback is a plus. Some alloys are stronger than others. Brass thickness in necks can vary. As you've noticed, weight which relates to case capacity is closer. Web thickness will be more uniform. Best is same headstamp, fired the same amount of times. |
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Head stamp only for me. You can have same mfg, different runs and be .02 ~ difference, if not more. You get too anal, all you'll do is pull your hair out. If you were shooting bench rest with some $$$ toy sure. I know some of the LD shooters here weigh cases and bullet. You left out what rifle you're shooting. Forgot to ask, you weighing each bullet & primer too [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_clown.gif[/img] Might as well go all in. Bullet, yes, primer, not so far. Is there value to it, or am I just wasting my time? |
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Some of the reasons to sort to headstamps, Brass alloy the same. Predicable springback is a plus. Some alloys are stronger than others. Brass thickness in necks can vary. As you've noticed, weight which relates to case capacity is closer. Web thickness will be more uniform. Best is same headstamp, fired the same amount of times. So, would you say that, as an example, once-fired Radway Green brass, all of the same production year, with projos within .1gr or less, same case weight within .1gr. or less, powder charge as tight as possible, should be a fairly accurate (ETA: Or at least consistent) round using IMR 3031 and 77gr. Noslers? How do you keep track of this? |
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So, would you say that, as an example, once-fired Radway Green brass, all of the same production year, with projos within .1gr or less, same case weight within .1gr. or less, powder charge as tight as possible, should be a fairly accurate (ETA: Or at least consistent) round using IMR 3031 and 77gr. Noslers? Quoted:
Quoted:
Some of the reasons to sort to headstamps, Brass alloy the same. Predicable springback is a plus. Some alloys are stronger than others. Brass thickness in necks can vary. As you've noticed, weight which relates to case capacity is closer. Web thickness will be more uniform. Best is same headstamp, fired the same amount of times. So, would you say that, as an example, once-fired Radway Green brass, all of the same production year, with projos within .1gr or less, same case weight within .1gr. or less, powder charge as tight as possible, should be a fairly accurate (ETA: Or at least consistent) round using IMR 3031 and 77gr. Noslers? Having consistent components will help produce consistent ammo.....so by sorting your components, you have reduced some of the variables in your pursuit of accuracy. IMHO, it will make finding a reload your rifle likes easier..... just bear in mind, your rifles barrel may or may not like IMR 3031 and 77gr... you are still ahead of the curve with sorted components... but you might need to try different powders and / primers. I suggest you try Remington 7 1/2 primers as your goto small rifle primer. |
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If you are going to weight match your brass do it AFTER it is totally prepped.
Only weight match brass with the same head stamps. If doing military brass I would even narrow it down to same year. I think doing it this way is probably the most beneficial way. As already mentioned the point of doing it is to attempt to match cases with the same internal capacity. Brass to weight of typical rifle powder ratio is 8 to 1. Weight matching may not be perfect for capacity matching but if you fallow the criteria I posted it surely can't hurt and if you have a digital scale it's pretty easy to do. Motor |
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Having consistent components will help produce consistent ammo.....so by sorting your components, you have reduced some of the variables in your pursuit of accuracy. IMHO, it will make finding a reload your rifle likes easier..... just bear in mind, your rifles barrel may or may not like IMR 3031 and 77gr... you are still ahead of the curve with sorted components... but you might need to try different powders and / primers. I suggest you try Remington 7 1/2 primers as your goto small rifle primer. Quoted:
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Some of the reasons to sort to headstamps, Brass alloy the same. Predicable springback is a plus. Some alloys are stronger than others. Brass thickness in necks can vary. As you've noticed, weight which relates to case capacity is closer. Web thickness will be more uniform. Best is same headstamp, fired the same amount of times. So, would you say that, as an example, once-fired Radway Green brass, all of the same production year, with projos within .1gr or less, same case weight within .1gr. or less, powder charge as tight as possible, should be a fairly accurate (ETA: Or at least consistent) round using IMR 3031 and 77gr. Noslers? Having consistent components will help produce consistent ammo.....so by sorting your components, you have reduced some of the variables in your pursuit of accuracy. IMHO, it will make finding a reload your rifle likes easier..... just bear in mind, your rifles barrel may or may not like IMR 3031 and 77gr... you are still ahead of the curve with sorted components... but you might need to try different powders and / primers. I suggest you try Remington 7 1/2 primers as your goto small rifle primer. Good to know, thank you. |
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If you are going to weight match your brass do it AFTER it is totally prepped. Only weight match brass with the same head stamps. If doing military brass I would even narrow it down to same year. I think doing it this way is probably the most beneficial way. As already mentioned the point of doing it is to attempt to match cases with the same internal capacity. Brass to weight of typical rifle powder ratio is 8 to 1. Weight matching may not be perfect for capacity matching but if you fallow the criteria I posted it surely can't hurt and if you have a digital scale it's pretty easy to do. Motor Yeah, I have a couple digital scales, plus my grandfather's balance scale. One's built into my powder trickler. I usually throw the check weight on every 20 or so rounds just to make sure I'm still accurate. Thank you for the info. |
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Waste of time to weigh primers. Use a match primer and be done with it. Buy match bullets and skip weighing. Sort cases by headstamp, skip weighing all together and learn to shoot 1 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yds first. Once you can do that, then it's time to move on to match case prep. Try a different powder also, something that measures better. Re-15( extruded), IMR-8208 XBR (short cut extruded), CFE-223 (ball), Tac, (ball). |
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Why only your .308? I'm curious. Quoted:
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I sort my .308 cases by weight - but that's all. Why only your .308? I'm curious. .308 brass has the widest variation between manufacturer's, and a lot of surplus brass (7.62x51mm) is on the market which weighs as much as 25 grains more than Winchester .308. Mixing these in with hot loads will wreck your day. Military 7.62x51mm from Lake City or IMI (Israel) needs a 2.0 full grain reduction of powder to obtain maximum pressures when compared to commercial brass. |
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Quoted: For the amount of time it takes to weight match cases on a digital scale, I would never call it a waist of time. Motor That's an individual choice. Maybe I should say for my use "a waste of time". I'll spend my time on primer pocket uniforming and precise trimming instead. |
I don't bother with weighing cases, even in my precision loads - I've never found a reliable relationship between case weight and anything useful. Generally, people will say that it's a good predictor of case volume and/or muzzle velocity. I have not found that to be the case in measurements I have taken either before or after sizing, even within a given headstamp. Example:
Even still, I have never found case weight or case volume to be a reliable predictor of muzzle velocity for a given load. Example: 
I don't bother with it anymore. I spend more time tuning powder charge to give me good accuracy on target, and trigger time. Those two have had much more of a positive effect on my accuracy than case weight probably ever will. |
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That's an individual choice. Maybe I should say for my use "a waste of time". I'll spend my time on primer pocket uniforming and precise trimming instead. Quoted:
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For the amount of time it takes to weight match cases on a digital scale, I would never call it a waist of time. Motor That's an individual choice. Maybe I should say for my use "a waste of time". I'll spend my time on primer pocket uniforming and precise trimming instead. I do those things too. 
Motor |
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Quoted:. . . I spend more time tuning powder charge to give me good accuracy on target, and trigger time. Those two have had much more of a positive effect on my accuracy than case weight probably ever will. Case weight is a surrogate for case volume . . . theory being a heavier case has thicker walls. (And weighing them is a hell of a lot easier than filling them with water, weighing them twice, and waiting for them to dry.) So after expanding to fit/fill your chamber thicker case walls will make your chamber smaller and increase pressure vs a lighter case. This would be true if the cases were made of the same weight alloys. Are they? I don't know. Some folks say there's a strong correlation of the weight of different headstamps and volume, but I never found one close enough to be useful TO ME. That whole dilemma, whether true or not, led me to use only high quality brass for precision loads (223 bolt, 308, 30-06, and 6mmAR soon), and to keep them in batches, prep them the same, fire them the same, anneal them the same, etc. and eliminate the case volume worry as much as possible. So I can focus on the powder charge :) |
| I did an experiment several years ago to determine just how much effect brass weight has on .223 loads. I used WW brass (sized, trimmed and deburred, primer pockets uniformed, flash holes deburred, and neck turned) , WSR primers, charges of RL-15 or N-550 powder weighed to 0.1 gr, and 75 gr A-Max bullets. Using the lightest and heaviest cases (sorted from 1000 once-fired I had on hand), I had two lots of 10 cases with a 3 gr difference in weight. The average muzzle velocity difference was 16 fps, just a bit more than the 12 fps due to 0.1 gr of powder. I choose to sort 0.5 gr lots of .223 brass for my long range loads, but the effect will only matter at 800-1000 yards - the vertical displacement on the target from such a small velocity change is negligible at shorter distances. Unless you control all other sources of variation, the effect of brass weight is negligible. I also shoot .284, and because the brass is twice as heavy I batch in 1 gr lots. |
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I weigh .308 cases, and hunting loads in other calibers. Currently using a batch of older WW Super Speed brass (157 gr avg), near max load of CFE, 208 Amax in a 20" .308. Last outing with this combo gave 2545 fps avg. With these lighter cases. it looks llike 2600 or close will be GTG.
I would never try this load in LC or FC cases whose avg are20 gr or more. Head stamp sorting is the best overall way to insure safe, accurate loads in .223/5.56. I have some GFL that weigh over 100 grains, used for subsonic loads. |
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I don't disagree with you fellows that the difference of space required to occupy 1 or even up to 2.5gr of powder (2.5gr in .308 or 06' size casings) is going to make much difference in your overall load performance.
Like the previous post I weigh cases to weed out the extreme. I'll still use the weeded out ones for plinking though. You know another angle to this that may be beneficial to someone may be to find the cases that have the most capacity which may help in getting those last few FPS out of those heavy bullet .223/5.56 or .308 Win loads. There are more than a few slower burning rate powders that could use the extra capacity to generate more velociy while still being safe pressure wise. As a side note: I did a load work up a couple weeks ago, well actually 3, for a long range deer hunting load in my #3 varmint barreled 788 Remington, 6mm Rem. I didn't have enough same head stamp brass to make my 3rd test group so I weight matched casings from 2 different brands. When shooting the 5 shot group I purposely switched back and forth between brands. The group ended up around .9" at 100 yards. As I said just a side note nothing scientific there. 
Motor |
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How accurate is the rifle and the person behind the trigger?
My live varmint rifle is built to BR standards except weight. Panda Action, right bolt, left port, no ejector, switch barrel on .308 bolt face. Groundhogs at more than 400 yards. Measured with a range finder. BR bullets. Matched cases. All the BR tricks available. |
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Quoted:
So does it? I'm doing case prep, the other folks on the range don't reload and were kind enough to do plenty of mag dumps, so I have pounds upon pounds of brass to work through. I'm doing a quick cleaning, depriming, sorting by case weight, cleaning again, resorting by weight, in preparation of loading. Still need to resize for length. Cases are running ~90gr. through 100gr. Everything from Radway Green, Lake City, Turkish stuff, Tulammo brass, etc. I want to try and load some stupid accurate 5.56mm rounds, I figure consistent projo weight, consistent case weight, consistent charge weight, and even consistent primer weight will all help with that. I have 77gr. Nosler OTM slugs. These have weighed out with within .2gr round to round. I was planning on using IMR 3031, as it's the powder I have in quantity right now. Do heavier cases make a difference? Or should I just worry about consistency case to case within lots? Or does it even matter. I'm new to reloading, so I've pretty much just been cleaning, depriming, and sorting brass so far. ETA: I've got about 20lbs of 5.56mm brass, cleaned, deprimed, and sorted to within a gr. I.E. 95.0 - 95.9 gr., for example. What your doing makes no sense, why sort by weight twice before resizing and trimming? Sorting by weight should be the last thing you do after the case has been sized, trimmed and cleaned of what ever sizing lubricant you are using. If you are doing anything with the primer pocket then weight should be taken after this as well. |
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