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Posted: 5/14/2015 10:25:23 AM EDT
| I'm getting ready to start reloading and I'm still in the process of buying the equipment I need. I was leaning toward a sonic cleaner for the brass since it will clean the inside really good and the primer pocket. My question is that obviously you have to have the primer out for it to get cleaned. Is it safe to run a dirty case through the resizing and depriming die? I took a beginners reloading class by Hornady and didn't think about this until I got home. All info and help would be appreciated. |
Dont bother with a sonic cleaner. If you want to wet clean, go with SSTL media. Buy a Frankfort, Thumbler, STM, Harbor Freight or roll your own. You will thank us later.
Dont want to drop that much or deal with it, buy a dry tumbler, use walnut or corn cob. Good enough to get the cases clean to reload. Just dont expect perfection. |
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Safe? Yes.
What you want to do? Probably not. Dirt and grit on the case can scratch the inside of the die. Over time that will lead to sticking cases, and maybe other issues. IMO, it's better to clean the case before it hits your press, or, if you really want to de-prime before cleaning you can get a dedicated universal depriming die from Lee Precision. My pistol brass goes straight to the tumbler, primer and all. Once it's clean I put it through the press. I don't care if the primer pocket is dirty, nor am I one of those guys who cares about glossy / perfect brass for my pistol rounds, so 2-3 hours in my vibratory tumbler (dry media) is good enough for me. My rifle rounds are a different story. Right now they're getting decapped in the universal die, and then thrown into the tumbler. Once they come out I check the flash holes for trapped media, clean and de-crimp the primer pockets, and then put them through the rest of the process. The sonic cleaners are useful for a lot of stuff outside of firearms, and I'm glad I have one, but it would not be my first choice for cleaning brass. I tried it once in my Branson ultrasonic cleaner and wasn't thrilled with the results, so I went back to dry tumbling. Now that wet tumbling with stainless steel pins has come forward as the superior cleaning method, I will likely switch to that process for my rifle rounds, and will probably keep my vibratory unit set up for pistol brass and for removing lube after the rifle cases have been resized. ETA: But damn Kaldor, that's some mighty pretty brass... |
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These guys are pretty straight on it.
first off consider your planned volume of cases needing cleaning. A box of 20 cases and the ultrasonic is fine. A couple boxes ok. A few hundred and you're now getting too slow for the capacity of the machine and will have to run numerous batches. a walnut media vibe tumbler will work fine. volume and shiny bling and you may want to go to the SS pins and liquid. FWIW whether you do ultrasonic or ss pins, don't do it with the dead primers in place, you won't get the pocket clean and if you leave them they can corrode in the pockets with the captured liquid. A $20 universal decapping die like was said is what you want to use. I use the lee one myself but they all make one. Just watch your entry into the flash hole as you're not being perfectly centered by the die body as it doesn't touch. If you're off a bit you'll hit the depriming pin on the case interior bottom next to the flash hole. If you're ramming away you may bend something, besides it's just plain annoying to dead stop like that. 
like corrupter says, you don't want to lube and run dirty cases in your sizing dies due to the potential to scratch them. Those scratches will in turn forever scratch your brass. Nothing wrong that washing twice if you want. I have done split cleaning; both walnut for a quick degritting and sizing then a ss pin cleaning to get the inside and pockets clean as well as leaving your brass perfectly clean of lube. I have also done pins first, getting the brass perfectly clean, the lube and load, and then tumble loaded ammo in walnut to delube. (Tumbling loaded ammo is not a problem despite what the books say, I used to say it was bad myself but I'm a convert; ammo factories do it too for a final polish) |
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Quoted:
I have also done pins first, getting the brass perfectly clean, the lube and load, and then tumble loaded ammo in walnut to delube. (Tumbling loaded ammo is not a problem despite what the books say, I used to say it was bad myself but I'm a convert; ammo factories do it too for a final polish) Interesting. I'd always heard case lube needed to be removed from the inside of cases before loading. Some of it supposedly doesn't play well with powder. Is that just another internet myth? It doesn't matter for my pistol brass since I spray one-shot into a baggie and then add cases, keeping all of the lube on the outside. It does matter for my rifle rounds which receive a healthy dose of lube to the inside of the neck. Since I'm new to rifle reloading, I don't have enough experience one way or the other and can't call BS or truth. Sorry for the tangent... |
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Quoted:
ETA: But damn Kaldor, that's some mighty pretty brass... Thanks
A bit on wet SSTL tumbling. When I got back into reloading, I decided I didnt want to screw around with dry tumbling anymore. It was the thing I hated most when I loaded with my grandfather a long time ago. Thats why I went stainless. Some pros for wet tumbling: Cleaner cases - inside and out Never need to replace media Chamfers and deburrs cases (nice for rifle, allows you to skip a step in case prep) Keeps your press and work area cleaner Some cons: Higher start up cost Slightly more time investment (tumble & dry time) You can get around the cost bit somewhat with a Harbor Freight tumbler setup. My only concern with that tumbler is life expectancy and capacity. My buddy uses one, and its an 80% solution at best. Next the Frankfort looks decent, but I havent looked at one in person, but the construction looks a little sketchy, too much plastic. For my money, the tumblers from STM are the best bet. Both the Thumbler and the Rebel are great machines. Myself I wanted a little more volume so I did this instead. 
Triple the capacity of the Thumbler or Rebel, and built tough enough that my grand kids will be able to use it someday. Before I run anything, I decap with Lee Universal decap die and prep. Pistol gets decapped prior to tumbling. Easy mode check. Rifle gets decapped, decrimped if its range brass, gets a quick wash with hot soapy water, dry it in the oven at 200 degrees for 10 minutes, lubed with lanolin home brew lube, sized, and trimmed to length. Then it gets tumbled. I never let dirty brass touch my sizing dies. Ever. |
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+1 I too bit on wet SS tumbling and am happy I did with no regrets. Home made / fashioned one similar to Bigdawgs
The only thing my old dry vibe gets used for these days is removing sizing lube with fine corn cob media (I choose to take lube off this way so I don't have to dry again or wait before loading or worry about stray pins after sizing as my sizing die/pin has already partially "checked" them). I deprime spent ammo with LEE universal deprimer .... then into wet tumbler .... then dry and process or storage. +1 on NO to sonic, YES to wet media |
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Quoted: Thanks. Another question.....I'm looking at the Hornady die sets in 9mm. There is the regular set #546515 and a taper crimp set #546516. Which do I need?  What you want is a separate taper crimp die to add to the 3 die taper crimp set. That lets you seat and crimp in separate dies. Or you can seat and crimp in the same die and experience all the problems that that entails. Unless you understand and are good at adjusting dies, get the 4th die. Makes life easier. |
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Quoted:
Interesting. I'd always heard case lube needed to be removed from the inside of cases before loading. Some of it supposedly doesn't play well with powder. Is that just another internet myth? It doesn't matter for my pistol brass since I spray one-shot into a baggie and then add cases, keeping all of the lube on the outside. It does matter for my rifle rounds which receive a healthy dose of lube to the inside of the neck. Since I'm new to rifle reloading, I don't have enough experience one way or the other and can't call BS or truth. Sorry for the tangent... Quoted:
Quoted:
I have also done pins first, getting the brass perfectly clean, the lube and load, and then tumble loaded ammo in walnut to delube. (Tumbling loaded ammo is not a problem despite what the books say, I used to say it was bad myself but I'm a convert; ammo factories do it too for a final polish) Interesting. I'd always heard case lube needed to be removed from the inside of cases before loading. Some of it supposedly doesn't play well with powder. Is that just another internet myth? It doesn't matter for my pistol brass since I spray one-shot into a baggie and then add cases, keeping all of the lube on the outside. It does matter for my rifle rounds which receive a healthy dose of lube to the inside of the neck. Since I'm new to rifle reloading, I don't have enough experience one way or the other and can't call BS or truth. Sorry for the tangent... really shouldn't have much, a little in the neck perhaps. The bullet keeps the powder away from it, there's not enough lube (if you're not going crazy) to really foul your powder. It hasn't been a problem in my experience with lube and pad, dillon type spray lubes, sinclair lube, or Hornady One shot. |
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I new to reloading too and it was quickly obvious to me that the PITA factor goes way up each time you have to handle a piece of brass individually. However, bulk operations aren't really bad and that applies to cleaning.
I use SS media in a cheap Harbor Freight tumbler and I clean the brass first thing when I get home from the range. I shake it in a colander to remove all the media and much of the water. Then I use a salad spinner to remove most of the rest of the moisture. I spread it out in a metal plan and give it a minute or two with a heat gun to finish it off. A fine sieve and a magnet is a great way to collect the tiny SS media rods. I use a plunger type magnet which releases the media into a collection can. Then I have two paths to follow. Brass shot in my bolt action usually gets annealed and neck sized without lube and generally it's ready to inspect and measure before priming and reloading without trimming or reaming. The annealing machine is a good way to finish drying brass after it's washed. Other brass usually gets washed, annealed, lubed, full length resized, measured, trimmed and (if necessary) the primer pocket gets reamed. Then, I clean it again, but for a shorter time because this time I'm really just flushing out the brash shavings and removing the lube. I would much rather bulk wash than wipe the lube off each case individually. Since it's a bulk operation, tumbling isn't very time consuming and I do other things while it's washing. Once you get into the routine of separating the brass from the media, it's not a bad job at all. The result is that your dies see only clean and properly lubed brass and the brass gets clean, free from lube, and flushed of any brass shavings. |
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A little powder residue on the cases won't cause any sizing problems. If you recovered brass from sandy or muddy ground, then you'll want to perform an actual wash on the brass to remove the sand and dirt that will otherwise scratch up your dies.
For the most part I use a brass catcher on my AR and Mini-14 so brass never touches the ground. If it's picked up off the ground, it gets decapped with a universal de-capping die and a rinse before sizing. |
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Nehi, yes you rinse the cases after wet tumbling. How "hard" your water is may be an issue, depending on what makes it hard.
I have LOTS of calcium (lime) in my water, and it's no big deal. If you have other minerals in your water, it could be a bit more challenging. Probably not a problem though, as long as you dry the outsides of the cases before anything dries on them. For example, after rinsing, I dump the cases (separated from the steel pins) onto an old towel to get most of the water off the outsides of the cases. This speeds overall drying, but it would also prevent any lime buildup on my cases. |
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Quoted:
A little powder residue on the cases won't cause any sizing problems. If you recovered brass from sandy or muddy ground, then you'll want to perform an actual wash on the brass to remove the sand and dirt that will otherwise scratch up your dies. For the most part I use a brass catcher on my AR and Mini-14 so brass never touches the ground. If it's picked up off the ground, it gets decapped with a universal de-capping die and a rinse before sizing. I agree with most of what you're saying, but in a lot of cases, the powder residue can hide important details, such as case cracks, particularly at the mouth. It's also much easier to tell what cases I've already cleaned, and which ones haven't been touched yet. |
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Nehi,
I'm in agreement with GHP; the hard water will just dry splotchy. I suggest you simply shake them dry as best you can, then pour them on one half of a towel, fold the over half over the top and work the towel through the pile of brass. That will get the majority of the water and cut way down on the hard water marks. If you didn't have hard water I'd say just toss them in the oven at the lowest temp ie around 175, bring them up to temp and shut it off with the door cracked. My summer alternative was to towel them then put them in a box and walk out on the deck and set them on the asphalt shingled roof and let the sun finish the job. I can't do that anymore as I'm too short to reach 2 stories. Oh and my other tip I got here or another board, for those doing a loaded cartridge tumble to remove the lube, say you were loading on a progressive..... I put a couple of splash of rubbing alcohol in the walnut media which really helps strip the lube off faster. Otherwise if you have dirty worn out media you'll just make a dirt tar mess on the outside. Don't ask me how I know. 
ETA- Tip 2, cleaning cases promptly and they clean easier, just like your firearms. If you wait powder residue dries out more and gets harder to remove. |
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Quoted:
Nehi, I'm in agreement with GHP; the hard water will just dry splotchy. I suggest you simply shake them dry as best you can, then pour them on one half of a towel, fold the over half over the top and work the towel through the pile of brass. That will get the majority of the water and cut way down on the hard water marks. If you didn't have hard water I'd say just toss them in the oven at the lowest temp ie around 175, bring them up to temp and shut it off with the door cracked. My summer alternative was to towel them then put them in a box and walk out on the deck and set them on the asphalt shingled roof and let the sun finish the job. I can't do that anymore as I'm too short to reach 2 stories. Oh and my other tip I got here or another board, for those doing a loaded cartridge tumble to remove the lube, say you were loading on a progressive..... I put a couple of splash of rubbing alcohol in the walnut media which really helps strip the lube off faster. Otherwise if you have dirty worn out media you'll just make a dirt tar mess on the outside. Don't ask me how I know.
ETA- Tip 2, cleaning cases promptly and they clean easier, just like your firearms. If you wait powder residue dries out more and gets harder to remove. I had the same experience cleaning lube off with walnut media--and no rubbing alcohol. The dirt-tar mess was indescribable.  I do it diff'rent now.
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