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Posted: 10/27/2013 7:09:47 PM EDT
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I have been considering things to improve my trigger and with all the small improvements available, it occurs me to ask why no one has produced a drop in parts kit that replaces all the plastic crap with polished metal?
I would love to see a complete trigger pack parts kit made with premium parts. |
to. Although I haven't heard of any breakages yet with a polymer trigger system, it just seems kinda weird for such a crucial part of the weapon.
| I'm not as worried about durability as i am able trigger performance. We all know that AR triggers are made of metal parts that can be polished to incredible smoothness. There's absolutely nothing about the AUG platform that precludes using similar quality polished trigger. Polymer doesn't allow polishing or a clean, light trigger break |
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Quoted:
It's either Ratworxs USA or Manticore Arms that has trigger kits for AUG hammer packs, but I don't have very much knowledge about them. A few members on here have used them and say it makes a big difference on the trigger. I've been on the waiting list for over a year and now it appears they will no longer be made. That's why i'm hoping someone can put something drop in ready together. |
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You should be concerned not only about PERFORMANCE, but also RELIABILITY.
Even though the factory trigger pack is heavy, it works, always, and never wears out. Somebody reported here that he purchased couple of the very expensive mods and they were jamming, unreliable, they were going back. So which would you prefer? A totally reliable military grade trigger, or a fancy metal one with improved trigger pack that occasionally jams rendering your firearm unusable? Sure, if somebody comes up with a great trigger pack and it is just as reliable as Steyr factory pack, and does not wear out the host plastic pack, I will buy it, but AUG has been out for many many years, and I have yet to see such an aftermarket pack. 
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Quoted:
You should be concerned not only about PERFORMANCE, but also RELIABILITY. Even though the factory trigger pack is heavy, it works, always, and never wears out. Somebody reported here that he purchased couple of the very expensive mods and they were jamming, unreliable, they were going back. So which would you prefer? A totally reliable military grade trigger, or a fancy metal one with improved trigger pack that occasionally jams rendering your firearm unusable? Sure, if somebody comes up with a great trigger pack and it is just as reliable as Steyr factory pack, and does not wear out the host plastic pack, I will buy it, but AUG has been out for many many years, and I have yet to see such an aftermarket pack. I suppose that seemed like it was implied to me, but i realize now that it wasn't. I wouldn't buy something that decreased my weapon's reliability. My rifle has NEVER failed in any way and i won't tolerate it doing so. I would expect that anyone making what i'm describing would put in the work to make sure it was absolutely reliable. I'd expect the price to be similar to premium AR triggers, but that's just a guess |
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This thread is a little confusing to me as the AUG/MSAR has a trigger assembly and a "hammer pack" but no "trigger pack". Half the time I am not sure which one people are talking about. I have one of the 2020 hammer packs. Even though they are no longer made it was the single most important upgrade you could make. The internals of the pack are made with many AR parts like the hammer, disconnector, and springs. It can be tuned for different trigger pull weights by changing out springs. Mine has been 100% reliable and I suspect the only reason it was discontinued was because it cost way more to make then they were charging. Although the trigger is plastic changing it out to a metal one would do little to improve performance. The trigger is just a delivery pad and just like the 1911 the real culprit is the bow in the case of the 1911 and the connecting rod in the case od the AUG. The rod is also metal but rides in a plastic stock housing. You could improve trigger pull by making the connecting rod ride on bearing surfaces within the stock but that would require a stock re-design. 2020 makes a precision aluminum sear that can be used to replace the stock plastic sear which will greatly improve trigger pull and function but short of replacing the entire pack with metal machined parts (which 2020 has already done) there isn't much more you can do.
MadDog |
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I'm going to let some folks build up a round count on their 2020 sears and if it doesn't eat any of its polymer counterparts then I'm in.
After handling my MSAR E4 for a week I actually don't like the idea of having an AR or lighter trigger pull on it anyway. The trigger isn't tightly confined like on an AR, and I could see lots of brushing and other unintentional contact with it if one actually used it in combat. |
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mcapek:
Have you seen the 2020 hammer pack? I have one. They are pretty elaborate and have to start with stock AUG shells, (who knows if Steyr would even sell the shells in large enough quantities) use AR15 hammer and disconector and springs but then all of the other parts are machined of steel and had to be designed from scratch. The other steel parts are nothing like and don't even resemble original parts. With all the R&D and prototype production they would have to sell thousands of them to turn a profit. I would be surprised if there were reasons other then profitability that caused them to stop production. |
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Quoted:
The hammerpack that I put the 2020 sear into was a brand new, never even factory fired hammerpack. I did that on purpose so that I can compare it in the future for wear. I've been keeping track of rd count... Nothing unusual to report. Cool thanks, how many rounds are you up to? |
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No, I have not seen it. Heard about it, considered buying it, but it was long backordered. And if I understand it correctly, it is no longer made/available for purchase.
If it is a good as you claim, I would think Steyr USA might be interested in buying the patent for their own production, for civilian sales, of course unless the price is too high and this is not a commercially viable product. |
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Quoted:
I have been considering things to improve my trigger and with all the small improvements available, it occurs me to ask why no one has produced a drop in parts kit that replaces all the plastic crap with polished metal? I would love to see a complete trigger pack parts kit made with premium parts. I would be highly dubious of a US-made AUG hammer pack billed as "premium". The factory hammer pack in all it's varieties has 30 years of real-world experience behind it and it's still made of plastic. It works and it's durable. Nothing new and aftermarket will compete with that meaningfully. Why change? |
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Quoted:
I would be highly dubious of a US-made AUG hammer pack billed as "premium". The factory hammer pack in all it's varieties has 30 years of real-world experience behind it and it's still made of plastic. It works and it's durable. Nothing new and aftermarket will compete with that meaningfully. Why change? Quoted:
Quoted:
I have been considering things to improve my trigger and with all the small improvements available, it occurs me to ask why no one has produced a drop in parts kit that replaces all the plastic crap with polished metal? I would love to see a complete trigger pack parts kit made with premium parts. I would be highly dubious of a US-made AUG hammer pack billed as "premium". The factory hammer pack in all it's varieties has 30 years of real-world experience behind it and it's still made of plastic. It works and it's durable. Nothing new and aftermarket will compete with that meaningfully. Why change? Why change? I believe your argument above is the exact same one made by a caveman who threw stones as a weapon, right up until the other guy threw a spear at him. 
By rights of what you are saying, there should never be any changes to something once it gets old simply because it is proven(?) There are always better ways to solve a problem, that is called "innovation." I would agree that simply making the whole trigger pack out of all metal isn't necessarily an ideal solution, but there are many ways to make a better trigger on the AUG that a simple, cost effective, and don't decrease reliability. No one should fool themselves- the reason the AUG trigger pack is polymer is because it is cheap to manufacture en mass, it meets the lifespan and reliability requirements with that material, and it is lightweight. It isn't meant to be the best trigger in the world, only the trigger that is necessary to meet the Austrian requirements for adoption back in 1977. You CAN get a better trigger in the AUG, there is no doubt about that, and there are a half dozen solutions out there to do just that. |
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Sven:
I agree with you 100%. I was one of the lucky ones to get the complete 2020 hammer packs when they were first available. My only regret was not getting two (2) when I had the chance, but swapping between hosts is a breeze so I am not bent out of shape. I have often wondered why there are not offered any more. Judging by the quality of workmanship and the materials used I figured they would have to sell thousands of them just to recoop their investment and start to turn a profit which I didn't see happening with the relatively small number of AUG/MSAR owners willing to shell out that kind of money. Do you know if the reason they are not made any more was purely economic, or something else? MadDog 
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I just got my Steyr Aug A-3 on a Gunbroker auction from Ratworx and had them install the 2020 sear mod not the whole trigger pack . I must say the $100.00 2020 sear mod was worth every penny . I have shot many other stock Augs , and this is a vast improvement . Steyr should have made it this way from the get go .
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As you can see from these pictures the 2020 Drop In Hammer Pack is a work of art. Even though the hammer, sear, & disconnector are all stock AR15 parts and probably can be purchased at a low cost in bulk, they are of better quality then many stock AR triggers and the sear surfaces are stoned quite well producing a smooth as glass break. The dark spot you can see on the hammer sear surface is not a blemish, it's Slide Glide grease. The inner shell is machined and anodized aluminum with no dimensions common to either the AR or AUG. They are a completely new design. The outer shell is a standard AUG OEM part. My guess as to why these are not made any more is that 1) the outer shells cannot be readily acquired and 2) with the low number of people willing to shell out the $$$ for one, 2020 Precision could not turn a profit on them. Another words, they are too expensive, but that is relative as some of us spend that much for precision drop in trigger modules for AR15's.
MadDog 
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Quoted:
As you can see from these pictures the 2020 Drop In Hammer Pack is a work of art. Agreed! You can see from my previous results it's also the only AUG trigger mod that I've found to objectively improve the trigger pull weight by a substantial amount: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/407907_AUG_trigger_weights__stock__Tamer__HTM___.html Richard |
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Sure, its a "work of art", but does it always work, just like the factory Steyr plastic trigger pack? 100%, no excuses, no glitches, no minor technical design issues, no unexpected material failures, no reasons to send it back to the company to fix some "no resetting" problem, ever? Does it work perfectly in the real world, at all temperatures? Have you put 30,000 or 50,000 rounds through yours yet?
If designer(s) of the 2020 trigger pack accomplished that, I congratulate them on a great design and encourage them to license or sell the design to somebody who can implement it on a large scale. I would gladly pay $200 or $300 for such a "no excuses" proven design, that offers a significantly improved trigger to the factory one. But there are way too many tinkerers out there selling half baked and poorly tested products, and usually you find out there are some problems with their design. |
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Quoted:
Sure, its a "work of art", but does it always work, just like the factory Steyr plastic trigger pack? 100%, no excuses, no glitches, no minor technical design issues, no unexpected material failures, no reasons to send it back to the company to fix some "no resetting" problem, ever? Does it work perfectly in the real world, at all temperatures? Have you put 30,000 or 50,000 rounds through yours yet? If designer(s) of the 2020 trigger pack accomplished that, I congratulate them on a great design and encourage them to license or sell the design to somebody who can implement it on a large scale. I would gladly pay $200 or $300 for such a "no excuses" proven design, that offers a significantly improved trigger to the factory one. But there are way too many tinkerers out there selling half baked and poorly tested products, and usually you find out there are some problems with their design. It has worked for me 100%, no excuses! no glitches. I only have about 6,000 rounds through mine with this hammer pack so far and probably will never hit 50,000. Sounds like it is not the hammer pack for you but I love it and trust my life to it. MadDog |
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If the issue is the pack housing availability, and not cost of internal components, why wouldn't a rebuild service be worthwhile? The issue is not just trigger pack availability, it is also the cost of the components and labor. If you have never dealt with having customers send payments in manually or send parts in manually,and then do something one at a time, I can tell you right now, it is *the* most inefficient way to deal with things. The packs were assembled 100 at a time to make it as efficient as possible. |
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Quoted:
If the issue is the pack housing availability, and not cost of internal components, why wouldn't a rebuild service be worthwhile? Several of us have posted about doing this - but apparently the market doesn't like paying $100-150 for a hammer pack to just use the housing. If you have an "extra" hammer pack kicking around, try calling RatWorx and see if they have any 2020 HTM guts left over. Last one I did was full price ($230?) for the HTM with no discount given at all for providing my own donor hammer pack. Gots to pay to play. (On the plus side I have a handful of spares for my stock hammer packs.) My guess is that the manufacturing cost isn't terrible, but they've got to sell the packs around the $200-250 range to cover it and development and whatnot, and that's about the top end of what people (driven by AR market prices) are willing to pay for a high-end trigger option. There apparently weren't droves of people willing to pay another $150 atop that... either directly to RatWorx or indirectly by buying a pack from Steyr or PJS or whomever. Richard |
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