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Posted: 6/14/2011 4:48:44 PM EDT
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This one might be tricky, but Im going to ask it the best way I know how. Here goes.
Ok so I've recently built my sbr and now Im thinking of getting a can. My build is as follows, DPMS A-15. Noveske 7.5 barrel 5.56mm Factory BCG Blah blah could go on for hrs thats the important part. As its not "worth" suppressing anything under 10.5 inches, Ive also been debating suppressing my full length 1911 instead. My question is this, Im just going to name off the first (and best to my knowledge(best being most decibel reduction)) suppressor that comes to mind for each host weapon. For the SBR I'll say AAC's M42000 at 32-34db reduction For the 1911 Ive been eyeballing SilencerCo's Osprey (I personally love the design) Dry/Wet): 132.5 dB/123 dB* *Tested with a HK USP Tactical with Remington UMC 230 Grain Ammunition I couldn't find base numbers on the osprey, but basically my question is this... If I'm using just cheapo Remington .223 from Walmart, and some Winchester 100round white value box FMJ 230grain .45auto Which end rig will produce a quieter report? I'm trying to decide between the two. I'm only going to suppress one and need help deciding. Factors to consider. 1.)Id have to replace my BattleComp1.0 SS hider on my ar that I love. 2.)Id have to buy a new, threaded barrel for my 1911 that will have to be smith fit and probably at least a 2 week turnaround. Possibly 3.) SilencerCo states you can use factory sights on the osprey, but Ive heard otherwise. I hate to have my factory metrolight sights be useless, or worse, have to drop another $100+ on a set of raised tritiums if anyone makes them. |
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The 45acp will suppress better than a .223 or 5.56 due to the relatively lower chamber/muzzle pressure and the 45 pill is subsonic. This. 5.56 is a horrible round to suppress. Even with the best suppressors on the market it's relatively loud, and reliable subsonic ammo is basically nonexistant. I like shooting suppressed AR's, but if a decibel rating is your #1 priority, don't even bother with suppressing a 5.56 gun. Stay with pistols or subsonic rifle rounds. |
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From my readings here (hence no real life experience) you would not have to change your sights on the 1911 if you went with the osprey. I believe that it wouldn't interfere with what you have. Someone else please correct me if I am wrong. Yes and no. It depends on the sights you have on the gun. The Osprey has the same over-bore height as a 1.25" silencer. If your 1911 sights will clear a typical 9mm can such as an AAC Evolution-9 or Gemtech Tundra then you should be ok. |
I have never had the pleasure of "trying on" a can, and I really hate to find out otherwise $1200~ish down the line. 
Btw, i own this exact gun, minus mine has a few eh, tunes...http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/custom-ii/custom-tle-rl-ii Btw p.s. Is that 1.25in bore from outer diameter to outer or from dead center to outer edge? Or total length (circumference) around the outside? |
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Quoted: I have never had the pleasure of "trying on" a can, and I really hate to find out otherwise $1200~ish down the line. Btw, i own this exact gun, minus mine has a few eh, tunes...http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/custom-ii/custom-tle-rl-ii Btw p.s. Is that 1.25in bore from outer diameter to outer or from dead center to outer edge? Or total length (circumference) around the outside? Wow they're expensive now. I bought mine a few years ago for $900 after tax. What tunes did you have done to it? I'm looking to get an Osprey for mine as well, but need a threaded barrel. |
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The 45acp will suppress better than a .223 or 5.56 due to the relatively lower chamber/muzzle pressure and the 45 pill is subsonic. This. 5.56 is a horrible round to suppress. Even with the best suppressors on the market it's relatively loud, and reliable subsonic ammo is basically nonexistant. I like shooting suppressed AR's, but if a decibel rating is your #1 priority, don't even bother with suppressing a 5.56 gun. Stay with pistols or subsonic rifle rounds. Or get the best of both worlds. Buy an integrally suppressed 9mm upper from SRT Arms (other manufacturers out there as well. I had the pleasure to shoot one at an event a few weeks ago and I can say with absolute certainty, if I had to suppress a rifle, that'd be my choice. Con: * No multiple hosts (multiple lowers with a block, I guess) * Slightly more troublesome to clean Pro: * 16" OAL means no tax stamp on your lower, just the barrel. * SBR length without needing an SBR is also useful for certain states or crossing state lines for events. * It's reeeeeally quiet. * SRT starts with RRA parts, which is a fantastic 9mm rifle to begin with. * Ammo is very, very cheap. Since you already have a SBR lower, maybe just get a pistol length 9mm upper and a 9mm can? |
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I've got an M4-2000 on an 11.5" SBR and a 45 Osprey on a TRP. Hands down the TRP is quieter than the rifle. The reasons have been discussed.
Honestly, I find myself shooting pistols more than rifles so a pistol can was a priority to me over a rifle can. An Osprey plus barrel isn't much different in cost than an M4-2000 and a mount. There will be plenty of time to get your 1911 barrel fit while you wait on the F4 to clear. Major Malfunction is supposed to have pretty good prices on the Ospreys. I would start there. Either way, let us know what you decide and post pics when the dust settles. ETA - As for sights, they will be slilghtly obscured no matter which pistol can you buy. I have tritium Novaks on my TRP and don't have any issues using them while the Osprey is mounted. I do shoot handguns with both eyes open so that certainly helps. |
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First off, thanks for everyone being so patient for a reply from me, working 6 days a week is putting its hurt on.
Secondly, thanks for so much interest in the subject, everyones time to read and/or reply is much appreciated. Third, trojan you have a great point. Does anyone make a integrally suppressed 9mm sbr upper? 
Third a.)Maybe perhaps even a integrally suppressed .45 sbr upper. Yummmmm... 
Oh and Peekay, to clear the waters, the Osprey is what I was referring to for $1200. It's about $1000ish plus $200 tax stamp. Actually, I got a sweet deal on my Kimber. The place that sold it to me had a Kimber liquidation going on starting monday (this was a friday) and the gentleman let me have the event price anyways, even after they held it for me for 2 months prior. Got it for $25 over dealer cost (to cover his handgun import fee) and ended up paying around $875 after tax. Since then Ive put a wilson extended slide stop on it, as well as a set of VZ drips operator 2's with a bone grenade laser etch in desert sand micarta. Also has VZ grip screws. Oh and Ed brown chainlink pattern backstrap/maxi-well. And a beamshot 8000s if you consider rail mount accs. part of a gun. I run Chip Mccormic power plus mags. 10 rounders rock. I even attempt to CC them sometime lol. I usually take my magwell off and just rock the standard 7 rounder though. |
| Oh complete side notes I believe you chaps could answer for me. What 1911 style pistol is that beast nasty that has a rail that is also a full length dust cover? I THINK its the Springfield trp if im not mistaken. I'm thinking MuXi can answer this for me if no one else chimes in first. |
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Oh complete side notes I believe you chaps could answer for me. What 1911 style pistol is that beast nasty that has a rail that is also a full length dust cover? I THINK its the Springfield trp if im not mistaken. I'm thinking MuXi can answer this for me if no one else chimes in first. That is the TRP Operator however there are 2 version: one with the full length dust cover (to which you are referring) and another with the standrard length dust cover. The full length dust cover usually commands a premium price so be prepared to pay if you go looking for one. I'm not sure where you're seeing an Osprey being $1,000. Check out Major Malfunctions prices and you might change your mind. |
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Third, trojan you have a great point. Does anyone make a integrally suppressed 9mm sbr upper? All the integrals I've seen (which is like a whopping three of them) have all been semi-custom jobs. The one I shot was an SRT Arms, and it was very nice. But since they're semi-custom, I'd imagine you could get them in any barrel length you want. Though I'm unsure as to why you'd want an integral SBR upper. Part of the reason to go integral is to have a SBR + can = 16" length without the second NFA stamp (plus SBRs aren't legal everywhere suppressors are). If you already have an SBR, and want to use that lower, then just get a pistol upper and use a thread-on can. Only real downside to that is that you have to use a 9mm adapter block, and you may have to switch out your hammer. If you don't care about that, then I'd go with a removable setup just so I could put it on a handgun, too, if I wanted to. The S&W M&P comes in a kit with a threaded barrel, so I'd go with that for a second host. But if you want to have a dedicated platform (and I would prefer that, personally), I'd give SRT (or another shop) a call, tell them what you want, and see what rifle model they prefer to work on. Buy that rifle, ship them the upper and then start the paperwork and the wait. I mean, it's a little more expensive, since you're in it $1000 for the base rifle, plus at least $500 for the suppressor conversion, $300 for a rail system, then the $200 stamp, plus magazines, sights/optics, anything else you bolt onto it... it's going to come out to at least $2500 by the time you're done, probably more. And sure, the thing is completely badass once it's finished, but getting there is going to be a pain. Not that you'll care once it's done, but I'm just saying. If you want a quick fix (and "quick" here is the 60-90 days for the stamp to go through), just get a screw-on can and a pistol upper since you already have a SBR lower. But with the conversion parts and everything, the cost will probably be about the same. If you go integral, you get another complete rifle. Downside is just that you can't move the can to a different host, and the custom work will take a few weeks longer. If I were doing it, I'd go integral 9mm with a Spike's BAR rail, and a simple red dot. I stole this pic off Google images from another member (looks like PCLazarus), but almost exactly like this (though I think that might be an SBR / removable): 
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I think I have a few misconceptions.
1.) I thought integrally suppressed weapons did not need form 4's, hence since I have a SBR lower, if i could find a sbr .45 integrally supressed upper id just pin in on my lower and go. 2.) From that picture I now believe you must have a dedicated lower for a 9mm (or otherwise) converted upper. I thought till now it was a drop in conversion (and by drop in I mean swap uppers and run). 3.) Whats the "premium price" for a TRP with full length dust cover? I just woke up so havn't attempted a search yet. 4.) Im thinking the Osprey is the way to go. Just out of curiosity (yes the same kind that killed the cat) what would happen if I mounted the .45 Osprey to my 7.5in sbr and shot 5.56 out of it? .22lr? I would assume the chance of a baffle strike would be less as the bullet would have more "wobble" room with the larger bore, but as it is such a difference would it suppress either round at all? 5.) Osprey price was just MSRP, im going to go check out major malfunction now. (Or at least attempt to find it with the time I have before the range. Its a sweet day to shoot today) |
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I think I have a few misconceptions. 1.) I thought integrally suppressed weapons did not need form 4's, hence since I have a SBR lower, if i could find a sbr .45 integrally supressed upper id just pin in on my lower and go.You will need a F4 for the suppressor. 2.) From that picture I now believe you must have a dedicated lower for a 9mm (or otherwise) converted upper. I thought till now it was a drop in conversion (and by drop in I mean swap uppers and run). Yes, you will need a dedicated 9mm lower. 3.) Whats the "premium price" for a TRP with full length dust cover? I just woke up so havn't attempted a search yet. I've seen them go for upwards of $1,500 where I've seen plain TRP sell for less than $1,200. 4.) Im thinking the Osprey is the way to go. Just out of curiosity (yes the same kind that killed the cat) what would happen if I mounted the .45 Osprey to my 7.5in sbr and shot 5.56 out of it? .22lr? I would assume the chance of a baffle strike would be less as the bullet would have more "wobble" room with the larger bore, but as it is such a difference would it suppress either round at all? You can shoot 5.56 out of a 45 Osprey...once. The pistol suppressor is not built to handle the pressures of a rifle cartidge. 22LR isn't recommended either due to lead buildup. 5.) Osprey price was just MSRP, im going to go check out major malfunction now. (Or at least attempt to find it with the time I have before the range. Its a sweet day to shoot today) |
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1.) Oh ok, I thought since its was integral it was technically part of the barrel and that made it slide through a gray area somewhere. My mistake.
2.) Hm, learn something new every day. 3.) $1500 huh? Ouch. Might just have to sell the Kimber. 4.) Oh its the pressures that matter, not just the inner diameter. If I used the copper plated .22lr rounds would that change that? Also as a side note, what kind of maintenance does a suppressor require? I.e. cleanings and such. Also MuXi, how difficult is cleaning on the Osprey? I do like the fact that the Neilson device on the Osprey is the registered suppressor, so if you do have a baffle strike its an easier repair process. |
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First off, thanks for everyone being so patient for a reply from me, working 6 days a week is putting its hurt on. Secondly, thanks for so much interest in the subject, everyones time to read and/or reply is much appreciated. Third, trojan you have a great point. Does anyone make a integrally suppressed 9mm sbr upper?
Third a.)Maybe perhaps even a integrally suppressed .45 sbr upper. Yummmmm...
Oh and Peekay, to clear the waters, the Osprey is what I was referring to for $1200. It's about $1000ish plus $200 tax stamp. Actually, I got a sweet deal on my Kimber. The place that sold it to me had a Kimber liquidation going on starting monday (this was a friday) and the gentleman let me have the event price anyways, even after they held it for me for 2 months prior. Got it for $25 over dealer cost (to cover his handgun import fee) and ended up paying around $875 after tax. Since then Ive put a wilson extended slide stop on it, as well as a set of VZ drips operator 2's with a bone grenade laser etch in desert sand micarta. Also has VZ grip screws. Oh and Ed brown chainlink pattern backstrap/maxi-well. And a beamshot 8000s if you consider rail mount accs. part of a gun. I run Chip Mccormic power plus mags. 10 rounders rock. I even attempt to CC them sometime lol. I usually take my magwell off and just rock the standard 7 rounder though. You should be able to find an Osprey for well under $1200. I gave under $1000 for can, tax, and tax stamp just a lil while ago! |
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2.) From that picture I now believe you must have a dedicated lower for a 9mm (or otherwise) converted upper. I thought till now it was a drop in conversion (and by drop in I mean swap uppers and run). Yes, you will need a dedicated 9mm lower. That isn't true, I run my 9mm upper on the same sbr lower as my 556. It does take a few seconds to put in the magwell adapter and I use a different buffer between the two calibers, but overall, the swap takes two mins at most. Now it would be easier if you had a dedicated lower with the magwell adapter left in it or even better, one purpose built for 9mm like the one pictured above, but it is not required. Quoted:
1.) Oh ok, I thought since its was integral it was technically part of the barrel and that made it slide through a gray area somewhere. My mistake. You do still have to pay for one form 4 with the suppressor, but if the intergral suppressed barrel is over 16", you can avoid the requirement for it to go on an SBR lower. |
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2.) From that picture I now believe you must have a dedicated lower for a 9mm (or otherwise) converted upper. I thought till now it was a drop in conversion (and by drop in I mean swap uppers and run). Yes, you will need a dedicated 9mm lower. That isn't true, I run my 9mm upper on the same sbr lower as my 556. It does take a few seconds to put in the magwell adapter and I use a different buffer between the two calibers, but overall, the swap takes two mins at most. Now it would be easier if you had a dedicated lower with the magwell adapter left in it or even better, one purpose built for 9mm like the one pictured above, but it is not required. Quoted:
1.) Oh ok, I thought since its was integral it was technically part of the barrel and that made it slide through a gray area somewhere. My mistake. You do still have to pay for one form 4 with the suppressor, but if the intergral suppressed barrel is over 16", you can avoid the requirement for it to go on an SBR lower. Fair enough about swapping minimal parts. It was something I didn't want to hassle with personally. As for ease of cleaning the Osprey and required maintenence for a centerfire can - after just under 1,000 rounds I haven't bothered to clean my Osprey. It really doesn't need more than a little oil in the booster to keep things smooth. I don't do more than that with any of my centerfire suppressors. Definitely sell the Kimber to get a TRP. It's certainly worth it, but I'm not biased or anything. 
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| Bwhahaha. If it came down to just accuracy alone, would a TRP outshoot a Kimber? I mean obviously same ammo, barrel length etc. I know this is opening a can of worms, but lets all stay civil here. If Kimber offered a full length dust covered 1911 I would have purchased it instead. |
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Bwhahaha. If it came down to just accuracy alone, would a TRP outshoot a Kimber? I mean obviously same ammo, barrel length etc. I know this is opening a can of worms, but lets all stay civil here. If Kimber offered a full length dust covered 1911 I would have purchased it instead. I don't know. I've never shot a Kimber from a benchrest which is the only way I would be able to get enough accuracy out of a pistol to make a judgement call and even then, it's a crap shoot. Most factory 5" 1911 will be plenty accurate for 99% of shooters. That's why you don't hear accuracy comparisons very often between pistols. |
| Hmm very interesting. The only accuracy comparisons I've had was with the 2 pistols I've owned and shot, which my first was a Taurus pt940, then I went from that to my Kimber, so obviously It was a pretty huge jump overall (of course I've gotten better the more experience I've gained just fine tuning my technique). |
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Hmmm, I gotta ask, how does one compare pistols then? Teach me the way...
oh and ps, if my barrel is .45 and one half from dead center of barrel to top of front sight that would be .45 +22.5=67.5=radius×2=diameter=135. So if a suppresor is 1.30 in. should just clear the sights. Does my math all check out? |
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