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Posted: 2/28/2016 8:48:25 PM EDT
| I just got into reloading. I am only set up to reload 9x19mm on a Lee turret press. I was reviewing the data that came with the Lee 9mm die set and the data from Richard Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition. They had conflicting data on the maximum charge weight of Accurate No7 with a 115gr FMJ bullet. The data sheet that came with the die set had a much higher maximum charge weight than the reloading book had. Is it normal to have conflicting data like this? |
| Sometimes you will get conflicting data depending on the exact circumstances that the data was collected under. Changing OAL, and bullet seating depth can alter your min/max charge weight and velocities, as well as the exact bullet you're using, and I think even lot-to-lot variations in powder manufacture can produce pressure results with as much as a 10% difference. IIRC, Lee's information is essentially a cut/paste from a bunch of other sources, so when they say "jacketed bullet" you're left to figure out which bullet they used. The data on their die sheet may be left over from the first edition. It's always a good idea to look at several published sources on data before working up a load, and obviously, start on the lower end and work your way up. Most powder manufacturers have data you can look at. |
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I try to use data that was developed using the specific bullet I am using first. Even then I'll cross reference with other sources to make sure that there wasn't any typos.
If I can't find data by the bullet maker I'll go to the powder manufacturer and again a few others to cross reference. You'll see these differences all the time. Another I can think of off hand is with Leverevolution. The data on the bottle is slightly different than what is in the manual. As the other replies stated the start load is most important. From there you can work up. It is important to know however where the general consensus of maximum is. Motor |
| I also use the data from the powder maker. Their web site data is normally the most consistent. I also rarely load hot max listed loads. Most of time there is no need except for my hunting loads where I want every bit of velocity for the reach if needed. For pistol loads on paper, just shoot what cycles yours and you will be fine. My uncle shoots pistol silhouette and he loads light for his revolver because all that matters is the power to dump the ram at range. |
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Quoted:
I just got into reloading. I am only set up to reload 9x19mm on a Lee turret press. I was reviewing the data that came with the Lee 9mm die set and the data from Richard Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition. They had conflicting data on the maximum charge weight of Accurate No7 with a 115gr FMJ bullet. The data sheet that came with the die set had a much higher maximum charge weight than the reloading book had. Is it normal to have conflicting data like this? I don't recommend the LEE load data, that is the one failing of an otherwise great load manual. This experience you had doubles down the importance of using several sources of load data; it will all likely be slightly different, but it gives us a range of probable maximum charge weights. The method of measurement (lead crushers or piezo gages), firearm, cases, seating depth for straight wall cartridges, and even the maximum pressure the tester elects to report, it might not be the SAMMI maximum. What was the difference in those charge weights? |
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Quoted:
I don't recommend the LEE load data, that is the one failing of an otherwise great load manual. This experience you had doubles down the importance of using several sources of load data; it will all likely be slightly different, but it gives us a range of probable maximum charge weights. The method of measurement (lead crushers or piezo gages), firearm, cases, seating depth for straight wall cartridges, and even the maximum pressure the tester elects to report, it might not be the SAMMI maximum. What was the difference in those charge weights? Quoted:
Quoted:
I just got into reloading. I am only set up to reload 9x19mm on a Lee turret press. I was reviewing the data that came with the Lee 9mm die set and the data from Richard Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition. They had conflicting data on the maximum charge weight of Accurate No7 with a 115gr FMJ bullet. The data sheet that came with the die set had a much higher maximum charge weight than the reloading book had. Is it normal to have conflicting data like this? I don't recommend the LEE load data, that is the one failing of an otherwise great load manual. This experience you had doubles down the importance of using several sources of load data; it will all likely be slightly different, but it gives us a range of probable maximum charge weights. The method of measurement (lead crushers or piezo gages), firearm, cases, seating depth for straight wall cartridges, and even the maximum pressure the tester elects to report, it might not be the SAMMI maximum. What was the difference in those charge weights? The load data in the book started at 6.4 gr and had a do not exceed limit of 7.5; whereas the Lee die set data had a start of 8.6gr and a max of 8.8 gr. This is with a 115gr FMJ bullet. I was just using the Lee dipper that came with the die set and it measured out to right around 7.0 to 7.2 grains per dip. It was a fairly light load and out of a magazine of 10 rounds from my G19 I had two malfunctions, both because the slide didn't have enough energy to come all the way back, the shots even felt light compared to factory ammo. I guess i'll step it up some. |
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Here is the load data from Accurate. See pages 8 and 9. http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web.pdf |
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It is simply what I have at the moment, this is the first time I have ever assembled my own cartridges. Quoted:
Quoted:
My Hornady Book says #7 start charge of 7.0 and max of 8.6 Any particular reason your using #7 with 115gr 9mm? It is simply what I have at the moment, this is the first time I have ever assembled my own cartridges. #7 and 115gr bullets aint going to get very many loads per bottle.. Save it 124's that you want to make go fast.. |
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Quoted:
Sometimes you will get conflicting data depending on the exact circumstances that the data was collected under. Changing OAL, and bullet seating depth can alter your min/max charge weight and velocities, as well as the exact bullet you're using, and I think even lot-to-lot variations in powder manufacture can produce pressure results with as much as a 10% difference. IIRC, Lee's information is essentially a cut/paste from a bunch of other sources, so when they say "jacketed bullet" you're left to figure out which bullet they used. The data on their die sheet may be left over from the first edition. It's always a good idea to look at several published sources on data before working up a load, and obviously, start on the lower end and work your way up. Most powder manufacturers have data you can look at. As chemcmndr said above .Always compare the over all length, that the load data is using. It will account for a lot of the difference of charge data. |
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No flames intended here. I'm just contributing a direct and relevant answer to the OP.
I never trust Lee data. Period. Its quite common to see data that does not correspond. For example, I've seen some reload manuals specify 3.0-4.0 grains of powder "XXX" for such and such cartridge, and then find another manual that specifies "3.5-4.5" of the same powder for the same cartridge (and bullet) in another. Differences are often things like cases, primers and the individual gun used for testing. Differences can also be due to one manual using actual pressure testing, while the other manual using some different method of determining pressure (Voodoo?). Lee seems to try to make a business model of being "inventive" when designing reload equipment. Some of it works. Some of it doesn't. They wrap it all in some good old fashioned creative marketing, and push it as the best thing since snake oil. Once in a while I'll putz around with a Lee Loader, the little hammer and die reload sets that come with printed load sheets for a few powder and bullet combinations. I know, from unfortunate experience, that some of that data is just wrong. I've repeatedly experienced loads, using Lee's data and equipment, that are so damned far out side normal reloading parameters its not even funny. One of their 'recommended' loads will leave a bullet wedged in the bore of a 4 inch revolver about one time in ten. Its simply not a viable load, yet Lee publishes it. Their equipment is just wrong. I've seen one of their powder measures that way WILDLY inaccurate. Combined with their "safety scale" (that also didn't work worth a damn) I'm surprised that a buddy didn't blow w=his head off before finally waking up and buying real equipment. Unless you have a VERY consistent hand and a VERY repeatable, consistent method of scooping using a lee dipper, expect some fairly significant differences charge to charge. When I see very different loads, I'll consult three or four manuals. Usually, there will be some minor differences but one manual or source will be wildly different than the other three. Discard the statistical outlier and load on. |
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surplusnut -
I didn't have time to type this process for handling seemingly disparate data up earlier. Gather as many manuals as you can afford. Nowadays the brochures published by the gunpowder distributors are available on line, but there is no substitute for bound manuals. Collect the maximum charge weights from all the sources you have, including for loads with similar identical weight bullets. Calculate the average of the maximum charge weights; this will be your starting maximum charge. Consider the range of maximum charge weights as the range of possible maximum charge weights. Calculate the starting charge weight from 90% of the weight of the average of the maximums. Pay attention to the published data, if there is a warning about reducing the charge weight, then heed the warning. In general the minimum charge weight published should be the floor, no matter whether the cartridge is a bottle neck or straight wall. Pay particular attention to H110. As the average maximum is approached you will likely find that there is still some headroom to increase the charge weight. Don't be surprised if you own a gun sometime that shows signs of high pressure at lower charge weights. |
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