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Posted: 6/20/2013 1:39:33 PM EDT
| My dad isn't a real fan of 3-gun, but he was willing to watch a cowboy action match. He may now be considering getting involved with the sport, but I'm trying not to push the issue. What do any of you recommend for rifle, shotgun, and pistol? What load do you use for each? |
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Having shot Cowboy Action weekly for the past twelve years, I can make some suggestions on the basis of what works and what most people use -- which, not unbelievably, are the same things.
Lots of guys who start shooting CAS get .45 Long Colt's caliber guns. They shoot these for a while and give up on them for various technical reasons as well as the expense of running a brace of guns in that caliber. The overwhelming majority of CAS shooters use the .38 special round. They use .38 special whether their guns are in that caliber or .357. The .38 special runs great through the modern reproduction guns and allows the shooter to make loads that are competitive in many different situations. So, I would recommend STRONGLY that you look for guns in that caliber. Most guys who start with 45 LC end up selling their gear to buy .38s. So, the resale value on .45 caliber guns is poor and the demand is weak. OTOH, .38 caliber guns hold their value extremely well and are -- almost always -- in greater demand than the supply will satisfy. So, for a low-risk beginning point, go with 38/357 guns. Which ones? (again) The overwhelming favorite pistol for CAS is the Ruger New Vaquero. Ruger has great service and the pistols usually come from the factory ready to run. Rifles are tough. The good ones are all expensive these days and there is no entry-level offering that permits the new shooter to get in "on the cheap." That's unfortunate, and probably discourages many who might otherwise enjoy CAS. But, here again, by getting the "right" rifle in the first place, the risk is low. An Uberti Model 1873 Winchester in .38 Special caliber has a resale value that is close to (if not more than) its original price. So, spending the money on a good rifle from the start will save you lots of money in the long run and will insure that you can turn it over easily if you don't like the sport. 90% of cowboy action shooters uses an 1873 Winchester by Uberti. Most of those guys are always on the lookout for a second, or even third rifle to back up the main-match guns. There are two shotguns for the beginner to consider. The Bakail double and the Stoeger double. Both of these has proved very durable and easily slicked up. You can use one of these popular doubles for five years and sell it for what you paid for it when it's time to upgrade. For loads, stick with commercial shotshells, but, please, get 2 3/4 dram loads so you don't make the rest of us deaf while you're learning the sport. Winchester AA, Remington STS, and Federal Target loads are all 2 3/4 dram equivalent loads and work well for CAS. You can't make shotshells for the price these guys charge. So, loading shotshells is not a practical concern in CAS (unless you shoot in black powder categories). The most commonly used loads for CAS rifles and pistols are 125 grain bullets over 3.2 to 3.5 grains of Titegroup powder. Titegroup is (again) the overwhelming choice for CAS because it is not position nor temperature sensitive and goes bang the same way, every time in low intensity loadings. Guys will talk about other powders, but Titegroup is used my most of the serious shooters who need a reliable load. Hope this helps. |
| Not just for Cowboy Action. I love my 44 Magnum guns but am not really fond of factory loads. Getting to old. I do like to load a 200gr lead over Universal at about 850FPS> Its an accurate load with light recoil and tin cans bounce just like the heavy loads. My favorite is teh Ruger SA 44 Spl with a 4 5/8" barrel. Medium loads are fun and accurate and the 200gr lead makes a big hole. |
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Quoted:
The most commonly used loads for CAS rifles and pistols are 125 grain bullets over 3.2 to 3.5 grains of Titegroup powder. Titegroup is (again) the overwhelming choice for CAS because it is not position nor temperature sensitive and goes bang the same way, every time in low intensity loadings. Guys will talk about other powders, but Titegroup is used my most of the serious shooters who need a reliable load. Hope this helps. I guess no one has trouble knocking over targets with 125 gr bullets and 3.2 gr Titegroup? Are targets calibrated at matches for minimum PF, or is it random chaos? |
very nice reading thanks  Quoted:
Having shot Cowboy Action weekly for the past twelve years, I can make some suggestions on the basis of what works and what most people use -- which, not unbelievably, are the same things. Lots of guys who start shooting CAS get .45 Long Colt's caliber guns. They shoot these for a while and give up on them for various technical reasons as well as the expense of running a brace of guns in that caliber. The overwhelming majority of CAS shooters use the .38 special round. They use .38 special whether their guns are in that caliber or .357. The .38 special runs great through the modern reproduction guns and allows the shooter to make loads that are competitive in many different situations. So, I would recommend STRONGLY that you look for guns in that caliber. Most guys who start with 45 LC end up selling their gear to buy .38s. So, the resale value on .45 caliber guns is poor and the demand is weak. OTOH, .38 caliber guns hold their value extremely well and are -- almost always -- in greater demand than the supply will satisfy. So, for a low-risk beginning point, go with 38/357 guns. Which ones? (again) The overwhelming favorite pistol for CAS is the Ruger New Vaquero. Ruger has great service and the pistols usually come from the factory ready to run. Rifles are tough. The good ones are all expensive these days and there is no entry-level offering that permits the new shooter to get in "on the cheap." That's unfortunate, and probably discourages many who might otherwise enjoy CAS. But, here again, by getting the "right" rifle in the first place, the risk is low. An Uberti Model 1873 Winchester in .38 Special caliber has a resale value that is close to (if not more than) its original price. So, spending the money on a good rifle from the start will save you lots of money in the long run and will insure that you can turn it over easily if you don't like the sport. 90% of cowboy action shooters uses an 1873 Winchester by Uberti. Most of those guys are always on the lookout for a second, or even third rifle to back up the main-match guns. There are two shotguns for the beginner to consider. The Bakail double and the Stoeger double. Both of these has proved very durable and easily slicked up. You can use one of these popular doubles for five years and sell it for what you paid for it when it's time to upgrade. For loads, stick with commercial shotshells, but, please, get 2 3/4 dram loads so you don't make the rest of us deaf while you're learning the sport. Winchester AA, Remington STS, and Federal Target loads are all 2 3/4 dram equivalent loads and work well for CAS. You can't make shotshells for the price these guys charge. So, loading shotshells is not a practical concern in CAS (unless you shoot in black powder categories). The most commonly used loads for CAS rifles and pistols are 125 grain bullets over 3.2 to 3.5 grains of Titegroup powder. Titegroup is (again) the overwhelming choice for CAS because it is not position nor temperature sensitive and goes bang the same way, every time in low intensity loadings. Guys will talk about other powders, but Titegroup is used my most of the serious shooters who need a reliable load. Hope this helps. |
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The most commonly used loads for CAS rifles and pistols are 125 grain bullets over 3.2 to 3.5 grains of Titegroup powder. Titegroup is (again) the overwhelming choice for CAS because it is not position nor temperature sensitive and goes bang the same way, every time in low intensity loadings. Guys will talk about other powders, but Titegroup is used my most of the serious shooters who need a reliable load. Hope this helps. I guess no one has trouble knocking over targets with 125 gr bullets and 3.2 gr Titegroup? Are targets calibrated at matches for minimum PF, or is it random chaos? At "serious" matches, targets are calibrated to go down with .32 caliber 90 grain bullets, as that's what many women in the sport shoot. But, practically speaking, most shooter carry heavier ammunition for stages where knock-downs are taken on with the rifle or pistols. Personally, I don't find the 3.2 grain Titegroup load to be 100% reliable. I just reported that number because that is what most guys use. It hasn't worked consistently for me, as I've gotten backed-out primers occasionally with a loading that light. |
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The most commonly used loads for CAS rifles and pistols are 125 grain bullets over 3.2 to 3.5 grains of Titegroup powder. Titegroup is (again) the overwhelming choice for CAS because it is not position nor temperature sensitive and goes bang the same way, every time in low intensity loadings. Guys will talk about other powders, but Titegroup is used my most of the serious shooters who need a reliable load. Hope this helps. I guess no one has trouble knocking over targets with 125 gr bullets and 3.2 gr Titegroup? Are targets calibrated at matches for minimum PF, or is it random chaos? At "serious" matches, targets are calibrated to go down with .32 caliber 90 grain bullets, as that's what many women in the sport shoot. But, practically speaking, most shooter carry heavier ammunition for stages where knock-downs are taken on with the rifle or pistols. Personally, I don't find the 3.2 grain Titegroup load to be 100% reliable. I just reported that number because that is what most guys use. It hasn't worked consistently for me, as I've gotten backed-out primers occasionally with a loading that light. What about "TrailBoss" powder? Its brand new, having only been around for about 10 years. It is specifically designed for CAS and is designed not to be position sensitive, plus work with the REQUIRED lead only bullets? |
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The most commonly used loads for CAS rifles and pistols are 125 grain bullets over 3.2 to 3.5 grains of Titegroup powder. Titegroup is (again) the overwhelming choice for CAS because it is not position nor temperature sensitive and goes bang the same way, every time in low intensity loadings. Guys will talk about other powders, but Titegroup is used my most of the serious shooters who need a reliable load. Hope this helps. I guess no one has trouble knocking over targets with 125 gr bullets and 3.2 gr Titegroup? Are targets calibrated at matches for minimum PF, or is it random chaos? At "serious" matches, targets are calibrated to go down with .32 caliber 90 grain bullets, as that's what many women in the sport shoot. But, practically speaking, most shooter carry heavier ammunition for stages where knock-downs are taken on with the rifle or pistols. Personally, I don't find the 3.2 grain Titegroup load to be 100% reliable. I just reported that number because that is what most guys use. It hasn't worked consistently for me, as I've gotten backed-out primers occasionally with a loading that light. What about "TrailBoss" powder? Its brand new, having only been around for about 10 years. It is specifically designed for CAS and is designed not to be position sensitive, plus work with the REQUIRED lead only bullets? Guys use it. It burns well. But, it has two major drawbacks. It does not meter consistently, often forming bridges in the powder measure. It does this because each, individual "donut" is very light and prone to static charges. So, it requires a slow, methodical loading process where each charge is visually inspected. (IOW, doesn't run well in a 650). The second problem with Trail Boss is that it is very expensive compared to other choices. People who do a lot of shooting won't spend the money on it. It works well for duffers and new shooters because it is relatively safe (can't overcharge it) and it can be easily handled in "traditional" loading processes that don't use a progressive machine or mechanical powder measures. It is "not position sensitive" because it is used in high-density loadings (i.e. it practically fills the case at normal charge weights). Think of it as "pop corn" and you get the basic principle of its engineering. It offers no advantage, however, over other available powders where the serious shooter is involved. And, because of its disadvantages, people move on to better alternatives as they get more involved with the sport. (p.s. Trail Boss can solve many problems associated with low-intensity loads in large cases. I've been using it in the 45-70 and it is very consistent with respect to performance. You'll hear that guys are experimenting with it in sub-sonic loads for the .308 and 30-06. It's an interesting powder -- just not well suited to high-volume action competition.) |
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