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Posted: 10/29/2009 3:34:27 AM EDT
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I know this has been covered before but I can not find the post I'm thinking about.
I'm looking for a primer pocket swage press. I know just about everybody says get the Dillion Super Swager but there is another company that makes a swager much like Dillions for less money and I can not for the life of me remember who makes it. Anybody got an better memory than I do? |
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RCBS makes a tool that goes into your reloading press. Having bought one, and having replaced the rod 2x (replacement rods sent free from RCBS), I would probably recommend the Dillon at $95, in spite of RCBS' excellent customer service. It looks like you bolt it down, and use it, without the hassle of adjusting it between case brands, and replacing parts. I don't own a Dillon yet, so it may take some set-up time also, but I've not heard of anyone who didn't like it.
RCBS Tool - on sale now for $23.99 Dillon Super Swage 600 $94.95 |
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You can use the Hornady primer pocket reaming tool and RCBS makes a crimp remover meant for their prep station but you could chuck it in a drill or something Here's the large pocket one http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=123112 |
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I use the RCBS. It's kind of a pain to switch the die stems out. It would be better if you could pay a little more and get two die bodies, one for large and one for small.
It's a real pain when you haven't used it in a while and forget to put the little cup on the press when you first start decaping. 
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I've been using the Lee chamfer tool. Until I rig up a chuck of some type to hold the brass I would only recommend it for low volume loading lol I have the RCBS Swager tool, and that still doesn't take enough of the "lip" off of the crimp for me to safely seat the primers, so I end up giving the chamfer tool a spin or two after the swager tool and that does the trick. |
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I own and have used both the RCBS swager and Dillon Super 600.
The RCBS will get the job done, it's a lot slower than the Dillon. If you only need to swage a few cases 100-500 the RCBS would be okay for the price. However if you have a lot to do, 1k to 10k of brass, the the Dillon Super 600 would be the choice. I have my Dillon Super Swager 600 mounted on a 15" x 24" 3/4" plywood with two 2'x4' running length wise on each side. I then can mount that using clamps to a coffee table and swage away while watching TV. Oh, and I do use the RCBS swager head (it works as a great checking tool) to randomly check the cases after being swaged in the Dillon. |
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I've been using the Lee chamfer tool. Until I rig up a chuck of some type to hold the brass I would only recommend it for low volume loading lol I have the RCBS Swager tool, and that still doesn't take enough of the "lip" off of the crimp for me to safely seat the primers, so I end up giving the chamfer tool a spin or two after the swager tool and that does the trick. I had that problem too with .308 LC brass. I emailed RCBS, they gave me an R&D engineer to communicate with, and he had me send my swager combo back. This was his latest reply: I received the Swager Combo kit and the extra Swager Heads you sent with it. It appears that the Swager Heads were approximately .0005" - .001" undersized, as they should measure from .208"-.210". This would explain some of the problem, as SAMMI specifications for primer pockets are .2085" -.2100". I took two new Large Swager Heads off the shelf, which were within print specifications, and sampled the five cases you sent. After Swaging I used the Primer Pocket Uniformer, and seated primers. The primers were seated without a problem.
I didn't own the Military Crimp Remover. They just sent me one to try. By mistake they sent a used and dull one, so I sent it back with my swager kit. He's sending me a another free new one. This is typical of the response I get from RCBS. They bend over backwards.
I am returning your kit along with two new Large Swager Heads, the articles wrapped in the paper towel. The other Swager Heads are placed in the Ziplock Bag. Please give this a try and let me know if you continue to have problems. I also replaced the Military Crimp Remover Cutter and am returning it as well. This offers an alternative method to removing the Military Crimp; however, it works best if used on a Trim Mate Prep Center, versus doing by hand. Once again sorry for any inconvenience this has caused. I will report on any improvement when I receive it back. Anytime now. |
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WOW............an admission (from RCBS) that their product did NOT meet spec.
_____________________________________________ BTW.........a Dillon does need to be "adjusted." There have been complaints here, about over doing the "crimp removal" and ending up with loose pockets. Then, there is the issue of the smashed flash channel bur that may or may not block (or partially block) the flash channel. Some have used a flash hole uniformer tool (from the inside) to ensure that it doesn't become a problem. But note that, it'll add one more step to processing your brass. For some, they care about it. Then, for some, they don't and will ignore the bur issue. IF, you want to use the RCBS spud as a gauge, go ahead. That'll add one more step and add to the total cost of your tool investments. The Dillon swager, will work and it's good for mass production. But, know that there is some downside. _____________________________________________ But.............what do I use? I use a Lyman hand powered reamer tool. With it, I don't need a test gauge. Think about it............you insert the reamer tool, twist, and remove the case. It'll cut the crimp and while it's in there, it'll also cut (it needed) the major pocket to a uniform diameter. And, I only use it under hand power.....that's me. Well, OK.....maybe some reamer tools are different from mine......but, mine does it that way. It's the sort of mindless operation I can do while watching TV. Some have complained of hand cramps........well, I can understand if you have a medical issue. But, I just stop and take a break when I get tired. IF, you want to swage with a Dillon and watch TV........well, watch out for your fingers. For more production.......... Some have gone to a drill powered reamer or a specially built powered machine (IIRC, RCBS has one). As with all power tools........please be careful. _____________________________________________ Don't get me wrong..........both methods will work. YOU get to choose, how YOU like to do things. Aloha, Mark PS..............I have owned and used the RCBS swage...........I didn't like it. YMWV. |
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More info for your...........
Military De-Crimping Thoughts __________________________________________ Part 1 http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay/index.asp Part 2 http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay2/index.asp __________________________________________ You want to do bench rest stuff, that's up to you. Start here w/ case prep..... www.6mmbr.com/jgcaseprep.html __________________________________________ Then............. IMHO…..DON'T USE THIS STYLE OF TOOL..........
www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=364181&t=11082005 Someone once asked: Why Not? A standard chamfer/de-burr tool (like above) could be used but, your results will vary greatly. In my younger days I tried using it but, I encountered problems with getting squared cuts and sometimes over doing it. And, it does nothing for the actual diameter of the pocket (IF, there is a problem there). YMWV. Currently, I use these tools...... Large Primer Pocket Size #7777785 www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=682934 Small Primer Pocket Size #7777784 www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=643126 With, the Lyman Hand tool I've eliminated those problems. It has a safe edge on the bottom.....it won't cut the pocket deeper. The cutter will simply spin, via hand power, cutting off the crimp and it'll leave a slight chamfer to the primer pocket opening. It will also correct an "undersized pocket" and an "out of round" condition, but only to the limits of the tool's cutting edge, under hand power. And, the cutting edge can be dulled, to "adjust" the cut (IF, you wanted to do that). It's a "hand tool" and I wouldn't mount it in a drill........but, that's ME. BTW, my Speer #10 Re-loading manual has a picture of a pocket knife being used to "process" a military crimp (page 71). And, for commercial cases, IF needed, the Lyman reamer hand tool will also slightly "chamfer" the primer pocket opening that has that "sharp edge." And, while it's in there.....IF, the primer pocket is too small, it'll do it's magic for that problem, too. Then again, sometimes just changing your brand of primer can work to tighten things up a bit. Perhaps, using the wrong tool and/or other misusage of a hand de-crimp reamer, may be the reason WHY some people are so anti-reamer? You know the saying about using the right tool for the job? Well, IMHO......the right tool, is the one specially made for the job of addressing the crimp. In this case, I use a Lyman Hand military de-crimp reamer tool. Aloha, Mark |
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Also check out the CH4D primer pocket swager and priming tool. The set comes with both small and large primer tools and is easy to use. If you dont want to spring for the Dillon, I would consider this set, especially for the price. ($29.75) I bought one for .50 BMG and it's a rim ripper offer. It will rip off the rim without swaging at all. It's the only thing from CH-4D I have been dissatisfied with, however. For normal calibers I use the Dillon Super Swage 600 and love it––money WELL spent. 
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I've been using the Lee chamfer tool. Until I rig up a chuck of some type to hold the brass I would only recommend it for low volume loading lol I have the RCBS Swager tool, and that still doesn't take enough of the "lip" off of the crimp for me to safely seat the primers, so I end up giving the chamfer tool a spin or two after the swager tool and that does the trick. I had that problem too with .308 LC brass. I emailed RCBS, they gave me an R&D engineer to communicate with, and he had me send my swager combo back. This was his latest reply: I received the Swager Combo kit and the extra Swager Heads you sent with it. It appears that the Swager Heads were approximately .0005" - .001" undersized, as they should measure from .208"-.210". This would explain some of the problem, as SAMMI specifications for primer pockets are .2085" -.2100". I took two new Large Swager Heads off the shelf, which were within print specifications, and sampled the five cases you sent. After Swaging I used the Primer Pocket Uniformer, and seated primers. The primers were seated without a problem.
I didn't own the Military Crimp Remover. They just sent me one to try. By mistake they sent a used and dull one, so I sent it back with my swager kit. He's sending me a another free new one. This is typical of the response I get from RCBS. They bend over backwards.
I am returning your kit along with two new Large Swager Heads, the articles wrapped in the paper towel. The other Swager Heads are placed in the Ziplock Bag. Please give this a try and let me know if you continue to have problems. I also replaced the Military Crimp Remover Cutter and am returning it as well. This offers an alternative method to removing the Military Crimp; however, it works best if used on a Trim Mate Prep Center, versus doing by hand. Once again sorry for any inconvenience this has caused. I will report on any improvement when I receive it back. Anytime now. I must have smelled it coming. The revamped RCBS Swager kit did arrive this morning. Rather than hihack this thread I'm going to post an in depth review on how I am using this RCBS tool in its own thread. That way users of the tool, and those trying to decide on buying this tool or another, can see the pros and cons of this one, in prepping the hard L.C. 7.62x51mm once fired brass, for use in a progressive press. Trying to use a progressive, including the priming station, using "de-crimped" brass, can be painful if the progressive process is interrupted due to a partly swaged case that mangles a primer along the way. Horrors. I'm going to try for tomorrow night...if the witches and spirits leave me alone.
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I have used the RCBS swager for over 25 years, on many thousands of .223 and hundreds of 30-06. I've never had a problem with mine. For me, it works just fine. Same here. I did bend my small swager once but was replaced by RCBS at no cost to me. I don't set mine were my press cams over. I run the body in a little farther and do it by feel. Works great and no more bent rods. I don't have to setup for different brands of cases anymore. |
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I own both RCBS"s and Dillon's swagers. The Dillon is by far a superior product. The RCBS can be made to work just fine for .223 cases. Using a very light dab of resizing lube on the swager head allows the tool to exit the case much more easily. Otherwise you will be smacking the press handle to release the case..
This is a much bigger problem when swaging Lake City .308 than with 5.56mm ammo. Lube still can make a difference. Retumble to remove all traces of lubricant regardless of caliber swaged. I actually prefer a swage to a cutting tool for military primer pockets. It uses force to move more metal and work hardens it into the base of the case to securely hold the primer. |
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