I have a MOLLE 4000, I'll compare my Crossfire CF2 frame to its frame when I get the CF2.  UPS is telling me I should have it by this Thursday.  

That's a very good pack.  However, it is excessively heavy with built in jump rigging.  If you're no longer on jump status, I'd cut it out.  Also let me know how you think it fits on CF frame.  It should fit if I recall.

Just had my CF2 delivered three hours ago.   So, that was three full business days for delivery from NC to MI, not bad at all.

Came already connected to the frame. I slapped on the two sets of half loaves with the LTAS as well as the CF helmet carrier attachment I got with it.  Man, the LTAS is really nice, beats the living crap out of MOLLE when it comes to attaching the pouches it was just miles easier.   So, I'm thinking I'll need to keep some pouches set-up with various things to fit my different seasons and can just keep them off when I'm going for just a ruck for exercise and want a slightly lighter pack.  Love the internal layout, the nice internal compression strap will come in handy for tightening up against my back a slick plate carrier. I'm going to probably detatch it from the frame then reattached it and just mess with it tonight and tomorrow before taking it for a short ruck this weekend.  

I still need to do a ton of stuff in it and with it before I can give a opinion one way or another, but I'm excited about it.  Just got some new boots, GoRuck MACV2 I'm going to be breaking in over the course of the next couple of weeks.  Man, I love summer time.

Damn that sounds like a deadly combo.

Any more reviews on these? Thinking of picking up a cf3. Want to wear it with belt kit.

Any detailed pics of the LTAS system? Please and thank you.

I've got the older version.  It's BASICALLY the same pack (the cf3 is slightly upgraded, especially with the new attachment system they have, which looks cool)

It's legit.  The frame and suspension are right on, especially with belt kit.  The pack bag is well made, well thought out.  For an off the shelf pack, it's what I'm recommending to people right now for a 'tactical' pack.  (For just plain backpacking, I'm still a Hill People Gear fan).

If you want it for use with belt kit, get one.

Thanks for that information. When you wear with belt kit, do you remove the pack hip belt or wear it above the belt kit?

Neither.  The Crossfire pack has a nifty little system that lets you detach the sides of the hip belt, leaving just the very back part, the 'kidney belt' part.  The DG3 (or CF3, the DG3 is the older version I have) is squat enough that you can wear it over the top of your belt kit, resting on top of the utility pouches or buttpack / water bottle pouches.  

Also, it has a special system on it.  If you get the Diz Rig (crossfire's belt kit set) or mod your own (or get who ever is making yours if it's custom) to add the appropriate adapter, it has a  'tranny strap' setup - a mini-belt kit that attaches from the ends of the kidney pad to the front / sides of the belt kit, kinda acting as a mini-pack belt, snugging the pack in to your back, helping stabilize it during movements.  I haven't used it, I still need to mess with adding an adapter to my belt kits I make and try it.  Technically, you could probably do this with any pack setup, but it's set up especially well for it.

Yeah the whole point is to have an integrated system of packs, lids, pouches, and belt kit which is designed from the ground up to actually work together.  So any CF pack is designed to work with belt kit.  And the CF belt kit is designed to work well with any CF rucksack.  

Whether or not you choose to use a "waist" belt (really a belly band on short back rucks).  This is the same as the ALICE system (for those of you that remember), and sort of similar to FILBE or Large Molle.  Back when belt kits were more common, you saw many troops, especially Rangers, SF, Marine Recon, etc. "jump rigging" their waist pads, and patrolling like that as an SOP.  This consisted of folding the pads or harness back and duct taping behind the lumbar pad, so when rigged to your jump harness, it would not snag or flail around in the air.  Many found that when resting on the belt kit, no waist belt was really required.  

This is the reason CF rucks have detachable pads and belts is to allow you this choice without having to tape everything back.  It allows you to jump rig it, and be ready to patrol, without all the tape!

And why after years of experimentation, we came out with tranny straps (they transition from 1 1/2" to 1"), which give you the option of having some sort of waist belt, for those time when extra stability is very helpful.  

So this is like having your cake, and eating it too.  You already have a good padded waist belt for the belt kit, and a short back ruck which sits atop it.  But if you really need the extra support and stability of a ruck waist belt, then you have a way of tying everything together.  

And a word about quick release.  Obviously this is in direct opposition to being able to drop rucks in a quick reaction drill.  For long marches, I prefer a sternum strap.  If I have a really heavy load, or am really "off-camber", traveling at angles, both front and back, and side to side, then the tranny straps also come into play.  However, out in indian country, where enemy contact is possible or even likely, you want to be rigged so the ruck may be dropped quickly.  Obviously this depends on the size of the ruck and your SOP.  But suffice it to say, you don't want to have an extra sternum strap, and two tranny straps to disconnect when you're in a hurry.   So there is that.  You have to make that distinction.

For many of you, only exposed to T,T,P's from the G-WOT, where you see these guys pointed in and moving like that all the time, it might not be obvious that you can't patrol like that, all day, for days at a time.  You have to evaluate what your likelihood of contact is, during different phases of your mission, and act accordingly.  Yes, this is an estimate, yes you could be wrong.  But you have to balance practicality and common sense with danger.  You can't be on high alert, 24/7 and expect people to perform at their best.  It has to be ramped up and down, as the situation dictates.  

We used to carry "Brit style" (anyone seeing a pattern here?), meaning with rifle cradled across both forearms (see pics from the Falklands) when "yomping" long distances.  If the threat level ramped up a bit, we went to "low carry", usually with the sling looped around our necks.  We only "aimed in" when dropping to one knee on security halts, and then only if the threat level was high enough.  

Really need that Day Pack Lid to come out while the weather is awesome.  Hopefully we see it before late Fall.

I only wish we could respond that fast.  Production cycle is usually something like 6 months.  Although getting better.  We are just now submitting changes.

Diz, what would you recommend for a rain cover for the CF2?

I thought Crossfire would sell them, but they don't appear to have any on their website.

Not Hawkeye but yeah, me too!

As many of you know, Hawkeye is one of our main beta testers and hopefully he will weigh in later with his CF2 thoughts.  He was really the impetus behind this size of ruck, and using the external pouch suite, ala ALICE.  So it really becomes a Med ALICE on 'roids.

I am desperately trying to stick to one pack + a minimalist assault pack.

Kind of expensive but I guess you get 2 for 1: Eberlestock Coyote/Snow  pack covers. I just ordered one for a DG16. Check the sizing measurements though.

True, and in my climate zone the snow camo side will come in handy.  

From what I can see though they just have Coyote and Snow, do they have Multicam and Snow?

Ooh, how'd I miss this one. I like that pack

I've got a molle 2 medium ruck I've been using on overnights(carrying most of my son's stuff too).

How does this compare in size?
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I'd say very comparable to a Molle II Medium.  Maybe a smidge smaller/shorter in main compartment, but no sweat with day pack lid, and other pouch suite.  Then you could carry as much if not more.

I am suggesting to the powers that be, that we need at least a special run of pouches, in some different camo colors.  Then you could take a base RG pack and re-camo it in M-81, some sort of arid pattern, or maybe even a snow pattern.  With a day pack lid, two long, and two short pouches, you could essentially re-camo your ruck for every season.

Also to add, the suspension system is still marked "CF-3" so it wasn't really Hawkeye's fault that he initially thought it was, well, a CF-3.

Thanks

Yeah the Molle Medium is an interesting pack.  It was the first frame without a center-section "I" beam.  Perhaps they took it a bit too far, by making a "U" shape instead of a rectangle, but definitely a step in the right direction, IMHO.

Just as a Molle Large would fit nicely on a Dg16 frame, the Molle Medium would go nicely on a Dg3 frame.  I did a few mods for 10th Mtn, and some instructors up at the Vermont Mtn Warfare Center.  They said it was a nice upgrade from issue frames.  Especially in their line of work, with lots of twisting and turning.  

 

So, I used the Helmet Carrier from Crossfire to slot my Z Fold Thermarest pad into and it works perfectly for that as well as just being a dedicated carrier my Team Wendy SL Ballistic helmet (can only put in one, not both).  

What I did was just unfold the Thermarest into two three pad sections so that it was more of a square, put it on the back over the main zipper and strapped it down with the side compression straps then put the Helmet Carrier on coverng the Thermarest.   It provided a very nice low profile way to attach that darn Thermarest sleep pad that is a lot nicer than sandwiching it under the top lid (where it adds to height of the pack giving issues to looking up with a helmet on) or strapping it to the bottom (where the added material/bulk could interfere with belt kit).  At any rate, makes for a super low profile nice way to just hike around with a full Thermarest pad.  

The CF2 is so well engineered,  the trade off is that it's not a super light pack, but for me I'll take the features and the toughness of this sucker any day over the ultra light civilian packs.  The Half Loaves are excellent, and fit everything I put them in really nicely.   I'll do a full post on it after I get more time with it.  Loving the lifter straps with the loops on the end as well, great stuff.  

In July I'll be up in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and will be doing a three day trek with it.  For right now I'm just doing a lot of 5K and 10K loops around a local small lake here with it for rucking exercise.   I hope to get some MILSIM West events in with it this year as well.  By the looks of it Crossfire is becoming the standard issue for a lot of the guys at MILSIM West, very popular packs and a lot of the guys are using their DZ Rigs now as well including Cadre.  

One thing I like about Crossfire is that they really are switched on at identifying the YouTuber folks who are great resources for our 2A community. Brent0311, Prepared Pathfinder, Apha Charlie Concepts, and a young British guy I just started to follow with a channel called "Echo Mike."



If you haven't watched any of Echo Mike's videos, I highly recommend them. So far he's put out some solid info and is sort of working his way through the basics for everyone.

Looks like the YouTuber Grunt Perspective who is an active duty Marine bought a DZ Rig and just did a video on it as well. Really recommend Grunt Perspective and hopefully Crossfire and him can hook up so that he can get some pack reviews done for them.

That's a good idea.  I'm modding my helmet carrier on mine to help cinch down my Hill People Gear Tarahumara pack to be a quickly detachable 'assault' pack on my DG3.  But I'll try what you said too, and see if it works better to just strap the assault pack down under my main pack lid.  

(By 'modding' - I'm just adding a short extension to the top straps on the helmet carrier to give it just a touch more room, with a cinching tri-glide to cinch it down tight.  It's removable and allows me to throw a fully loaded assault pack under the helmet carrier)

Oh, I like that idea as well. Let me know how it feels to have the assault pack on the back of the ruck like that in terms of balance of weight.  How big of an assault pack in terms of liters are you going with?

EDITED: I'm sort of waiting on the Crossfire redesigned Daypack Lid in the hopes that it will serve as an assault pack that I can attach to my plate carrier or chest rig in a piggyback configuration that would allow for self-access.  I would love the idea of not really adding much in terms of height, not having to take up space internally, and having an assault pack that I could just detach from the main pack and go forward with to an objective. To me that's kind of the Holy Grail of integration.  Right now I know there are guys carrying assault packs empty inside their main pack and then having to load it up at the ORP before moving to the objective and I rather that process be refined down to just unclipping the assault pack and going on.  

The one unfortunate thing I've had to accept with my CF2 is that it's not big enough to have all my sustainment stuff within it and carry a plate carrier inside it as well. I'm probably going to pick-up the redesigned DG16 when that comes out to give me that extra bit of room for anything where I'd need the plate carrier and to also serve as my general winter pack, because while I love the CF2 it's just not big enough for winter, but there is no "one pack to rule them all" and like footwear and gloves you just need different types for different things, which is something I've come to accept.   Still, for three season weekend LARPs it's hard to beat the CF2.  

While I've used it on really short hikes yesterday and today were the first time I've ever carried a normal load over distance with some pretty technical terrain.

I do have the usmc filbe belt on it. Besides that it's as issued.

(Below is copied from my gd thread)

We didn't get to the trail head till 1400 which was fine. We were only camping 3 miles in.

He set the pace and I was kinda surprised how fast he was going up hill with his 10lbs pack. Mine was 50lbs since I had both pads, bags, and all our food.

Great night at the shelter. We're reading Brian's Winter which is the 3rd book in the Hatchet series.

Up at 0500 and getting water for the day. Charlie loves the mountain house freezedried blueberry granola.

We dropped our packs before the summit for a break since we had to come back that way.

The trail home was extremely slippery and we slowed way down.
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Not to shabby for a 5 year old

That's awesom 03RN, the joy you are instilling in him now will lead to a great life of outdoorsmen fun.   Not enough young people getting out there in the wood anymore, especially since hunting has sort of become less popular with the suburban crowd.   We have to instill the love of the outdoors and getting away from the screens early on so we protect our outdoor activities.

Lookin' good Devildogs.

When I was a kid, I used to get kicked out of the house with a pocket knife, a machete, and a box of matches, and a BB gun and told to 'go play outside' - which to me meant 'go make a fire or something'

This Is The Way

About as minimalistic as it can get.  

https://hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/3/ProductID/8

I originally had two utility pouches on the back of my DG3, then realized that my Tarahumara is about the same size as those two, and could dock on and off.  So I swapped out the two utility pouches for it.




Lies!  Heresy!  Don't stomp on my dream of 'the one pack' (with an assault pack attached to it)

Yeah it's funny but when you do the various .mil survival schools, a common denominator is being "kicked out" with a knife, some cord, and maybe a cliff bar.  It's amazing how many days you can survive with practically nothing.  That first time out there all by yourself is very enlightening!  We really are social creatures and that is a real shock.  

Sea story time. When they put a bunch of us Jarheads in this one class with a bunch of Squids, they dropped us off all over hell's half acre.  It was supposed to be an individual, isolated event.  But we patrolled until we found each other and organized into a group.  Just to keep the sailors from crying at night.  The instructors were livid until the head honcho said, ok they're a... P-3 crew that crashed together.  With that being settled we set up camp.  I was on the frog-gigging team.  Others were wood gatherers on so forth.  We bartered with the staff/natives for a #10 can and some cooking oil.  Everything we caught went into the pot.  For a watery if not questionable stew each night.  At least you get something in your belly.  I think they kept the number of Jarheads in each class down after that.

Good times.   And we didn't have to buy any beer when we got back.

Reminds me of a MEU SOC workup where we patrolled down out of the Kahukus in Oahu to a Buddhist monastery/farm and used their phone to order pizzas.

Our platoon sergeant was pretty pissed until he got a few slices.

Walking back up to our patrol base through the jungle carrgying pizzas was pretty pretty interesting.

Oh yeah, I was very blessed to have two large wooded areas surrounding my area and two friends that lived just houses down from me.  We practically lived in the woods most of the year and got really into playing "Army" as kids.  There were two Army Navy surplus stores near us and we had everything from ALICE gear, Jungle Boots, Woodland BDUs, and it was great because we could purchase a lot of used stuff pretty cheap with money we made mowing lawns or from choirs.   It was before the airsoft days (lucky kids today) and we would paint squirt guns black to get rid of their safety orange color.  Great times and it was my introduction to kit.   Our parents didn't care what we were up to so long as we got home when the street lights came on. Different times though.

I grew up first deep in the swamps of coastal Georgia, at the end of a 3 mile long mud road and then a half mile driveway, backed by 50,000 acres of paper mill tree farm land that had been overgrown.

Then ended up in the Appalachian mountains, out rural, with a bunch of empty land to run around on.  A few thousand acres backing mine that didn't have houses on, house on the river.

I had a couple sets of tiger stripe camo, ALICE gear, and just tennis shoes, lol.  And a BB gun.  I had the BB gun, then a .22.

I was on active duty one time out at Pendleton with 3/24.  A Huey landed a little ways away, and a buddy jumped out with a Big Mac meal and threw it my way.  Damn but that was one the best tasting burgers I ever ate after a week or so of MRE's.  That Sgt got an outstanding fit-rep.  

Ha, now that's now that's some food delivery.

Funny how when you're in the field something like McDonalds can taste like a feast.  

So I watched the video on the Crossfire DZ Rig by Prepared Pathfinder (excellent, excellent YouTube channel by the way) and he showed how the Crossfire packs can hook into the DZ Rig so that the DZ rig replaces the hip belt and takes some of the pack's load.  I'm excited to get the DZ Rig and try that out.

At one point we were at Balad Airfield in Iraq right after Baghdad fell.  Our 1st SGT had to go back to Doha or Arifjan for something and brought back a few Burger King bags.  He then proceeded to share them with a select few of his boys.  Not cool.

Florida Phase of Ranger School when you get on the 'Pogey Birds' out of Rucker

Sadly, my lift got canked and we were 'Truck-Lando Commandos' - no food for us!

When I was at 3d Racoon, we had a RIP (Recon Indoc Program, based roughly on what the Rangers were doing at the time).  When the guys were going through this shit, we would sneak out at night and take all sorts of shit to them.  

We had a coupla inquiries this week, vis-a-vis wearing rucksacks with belt kit, so I wanted to hold forth here, with some additional info.   When you combine a rucksack with a belt kit, it is a very unique way of carrying some heavy weight.  It takes some time and effort to find the right adjustments for you.  What you are trying to do is find that sweet spot, where the weight is reasonably balanced between shoulders and hips.  Then as you ruck, you might want to adjust this balance one way or the other.  One guy commented that when weighed down with a 100+ lb. load, he was having difficulty with this.  And rightly so, as when you get into these weight levels, lots of things are coming into play.  Not only weight distribution, but also core strength, mental and physical toughness, and your body's ability to soak up abuse and recover.  But to focus in on heavy weights.  I did OCS at Quantico with the old Field Transport Pack, which is that old cotton canvas pack with the shelter half rolled around the outside.  Just like the old pics you've seen of WWII and Korea.  That thing had these 1" cotton straps, with a thin piece of webbing for "padding".  It basically sat on top of your "Deuce" gear, which is Marine slang for your belt kit.  Doing a ruck march in that get up was nothing but pure pain and agony.  If you want to know what my motivation was for designing short back rucks and belt kits, there it is.  At some point, your body just starts tripping breakers and saying oh man, I don't know if I can do any more.  That's when you decide how much you really want to do this thing.  The big difference between what's available now, including at CF, and that junk we humped in the past, is delaying this point as long as possible.  At some point you will still hit this wall.   No matter what you are wearing.  But in the spirit of doing everything we can to delay this as long as possible, here are some tips to help you fine-tune the load.  

First of all, we have to establish the heights of the ruck, and the belt kit.  I would start with the ruck.  Put it on and rough adjust so that the ruck sits right above your beltline.  This entails adjusting the shoulder strap assembly height so that they fall over your shoulders, with no gaps between the pads and you, with the frame bottom just kissing the top of your trousers.   Now take off and throw on belt kit.  Adjust it so it is slightly higher than the top of your pants.  Throw ruck back on.  With the added weight, the belt kit should stretch back down to the top of the pants.  Adjust the tightness of the waist belt on the belt kit, and the shoulder straps on the ruck, until you get some kind of balance between the shoulders and the waist.  You may have to do this several times, in order to find that perfect combination of adjustments, for you.  I would also add that the military does it ass-backwards, IMHO, by putting a specified weight on you, and just punishing your ass until you can carry it.  If you have the option, you can train more scientifically by starting out with lower weights, and shorter rucks, until you can handle the task.  All these "how to pass selection" books teach just this.  It's called progressive overload training.  If you start out with say 25 lbs, and 3 miles, and progress to 65 lbs and 12 miles, over a period of say 12 weeks, your bod has a chance to adjust and improve.  Doing it the military way is more of a gut check than any real training value.  Many a veteran has ruined knees, backs, and feet by being forced to carry stupid-heavy loads.  

Next, how do we fine tune the load.  You may find at some point, that the weight around your waist is really tiring, so you want to shift more load to your shoulders.  First of all, you tighten the shoulder straps, shifting more load up top-side.  You may also tighten the upper stab straps to pull the top of the ruck in slightly thus shifting more weight up there as well.  But don't over-do this.  If you create gaps between the shoulder pads and yourself, back them off a bit.  It can also help to grab the stab strap loops and pull down slightly with the hands as you ruck.  This is a quick and easy way to shift weight on the fly, especially deep into the ruck march.  Same with the sternum strap; tightening it up helps pull more weight onto the shoulders.  I find using the sternum strap with a short back ruck is critical, helping to get the weight from the shoulder straps distributed evenly around your chest, rather than just straight down from your shoulders. You can also loosen the belt kit slightly to help out in this regard.  More weight will then settle onto the shoulder straps.  

You may also find at some point that there is too much weight upon your shoulders.   In this case we are going to try and shift more weight to the hips and give your shoulders a break.  We start by simply loosening the shoulder straps, and/or the upper stab straps (and sternum strap if used).  And tightening the belt kit.  This where the Brit style belt kit shines as opposed to USGI.  With an adjustable buckle you can cinch the belt kit down tightly, as you would any waistbelt on a (long back) rucksack.  In effect, you are trying to create a long back ruck with a short back, and a belt kit.  No, it isn't the same, but you can get close.  Tranny straps can also help, being used in effect as lower stab straps.  

But any way you slice it, rucking can be a brutal experience.  I ain't gonna lie.  Any pack or belt kit mfg that tells you different is full of shit.  You have to acclimatize to it, hardening body, mind, and soul.  We try and do our best to help you out, but in the end, it is up to you.

From the backpacking world (which has it's own various ways of shifting weight to and from shoulders), I'll say that sometimes just mixing things up (shifting weight from the shoulders to the hips and so on) helps to just break up the monotony of the experience - sure, it probably helps a little physically for your body to get a break from the weight on one or the other, but it's mostly a mental help.  You mentally feel like it's getting better, even for just a short moment, and that helps motivate you to keep going a little further.

It's all about going a little further in the end.  Most people's mind will give out before their bodies actually fail.  So even if it's just another hundred yards, or to the next bend on the trail, just keep going a little further.

This is very true.  

Also to add, after consulting with my SF buddy about extremely heavy MK 7's and belt kit, we decided that you really need the ruck waist belt here, with the belt kit loosened and lowered down, Ranger style.  The technique of using the rear pouches for a shelf breaks down at these weights.  This is what we are recommending to the 1% of our customers doing this, and wanted to pass this on here as well.   Also, take a HARD look at your packing list if you have to carry this much weight.  Is every item absolutely necessary?  Or can you actually shed some weight.  That's the question which needs to be asked.  

The sweet spot for this technique is about 35 lbs in the ruck, with about 15 lbs in the belt kit.  If you are going over this, consider alternate techniques.

Yea, I can see that with fully loaded packs that size.  

I've always thought that once you got to around 40 pounds with a ruck (in addition to your combat load), you should be looking for alternative ways of moving that primary load, just carrying your combat load and a small pack.  Something like a pulk is used for in the winter.  

It would be interesting if someone made a multi-purpose pulk / cart that is modular depending on season.  Pulk in the winter, be able to attach a set of lightweight solid rubber off-road wheels for the rest of the year, turning it into something like the WW2 airborne hand carts.  Allowing one or two people to pull the cart by hand, or attach it to an ATV / vehicle to pull.  

(yes, I understand it's not always possible to use alternative transportation - that's why packs exist in the first place.)

My goal is definitely to get that sweet spot of 35 lbs for the CF2 and no more than 15 lbs for the DZ rig together with my Citadel Defense Specter chest rig and that's going to be my three day sustainment temperate climate three season kit.  

Right now for I have a MOLLE 4000 for winter time or longer duration stuff, but I'm going to probably upgrade if CF does a redesign to their DG16 that is in line with the CF1,2. and 3 with that cool LTAS method for attaching pouches.

The CF1 has some appeal to me lately as well for just an overnight summer high heat pack.

With ANY luck at all, the new CF4 will be out for Black Friday.  Yes it will be kick-ass.

Yeah good point about the "pulks"; at some point you need to carry the rest of this shit on some kind of cart, sled, bicycle, etc.

Yup, at a certain point you're "Overlanding" instead of rucking if you want to move that much gear. That's something that I'm working on with my Jeep Rubicon and that's a whole other level of expensive #$%* to buy.  I would love to get one of those new dirt bike E-Bikes with some kind of lugage rack on it at some point too, but sadly I am not made of money.

I'm excited for the CF4, will be nice to have a winter pack that takes those nice LTAS pouches.  Love the LTAS pouches, although I do wish they had hook and loop velcro on them to put on patchs so that I could label them and make switching out or adding pouches with specific items I might decide I need a bit easier. I can envision having bins with various pouches and just grabbing and tossing them on as needed.