Armory Sponsor
Posted: 1/27/2012 10:00:07 AM EDT
|
Dear HSGI,
Please stop using metal pulls on the zippers on your molle pouch products. Nobody wants to sound like Santa Claus with his reindeer when clearing a building. Thanks, C |
|
Quoted:
I have before and will again. I'm just hoping they'll improve the product. I agree. However, I've spoken to Gene on the phone before and he explained to me his reasoning behind using the metal tabs instead of 550. What I said above was his response to those who didn't like the metal tabs. |
| Basically, the metal tabs tend to pull more evenly and in line with the main zipper piece, and that most of the zipper fuck-ups he has seen were due to some type of cordage being used as a zipper pull and causing either a jam or a derailment. At least that's how I understood it... The guy knows a lot about zippers. |
|
Quoted:
Basically, the metal tabs tend to pull more evenly and in line with the main zipper piece, and that most of the zipper fuck-ups he has seen were due to some type of cordage being used as a zipper pull and causing either a jam or a derailment. At least that's how I understood it... The guy knows a lot about zippers. I have actually had the same conversation w/ gene as well. I have to agree with his response also. keep in mind im no operator, but I love molle and use my gear as often as I can. I would rather have more durable pulls and fix the problem with noise myself then have it the other way around. Also, because we are on the subject, +1 for Gene at HSGI. Keep up the great work guys. |
|
To be fair I only have 4 pouches with zippers, two DBT and two HSGI. The DBT came with nylon pull tabs on each zipper and I modified my HSGI pogey pouch by cutting the metal pulls off and replacing them with shock cord. I wear the vest they are on regulary and open and close two of the pouches (one of which is the HSGI) on a regular basis and have never had an issue. The DBT pouch is almost 3 years old and the HSGI pouch is close to a year old, maybe older.
I'm buying stuff for a second setup and went with the large HSGI radio pouch. I received it today which reminded me how noisy the things are. The intent of the thread wasn't meant to be mean, it was a lighthearted way of saying the metal pulls are innappropriate for serious work. |
|
Quoted:
To be fair I only have 4 pouches with zippers, two DBT and two HSGI. The DBT came with nylon pull tabs on each zipper and I modified my HSGI pogey pouch by cutting the metal pulls off and replacing them with shock cord. I wear the vest they are on regulary and open and close two of the pouches (one of which is the HSGI) on a regular basis and have never had an issue. The DBT pouch is almost 3 years old and the HSGI pouch is close to a year old, maybe older. I'm buying stuff for a second setup and went with the large HSGI radio pouch. I received it today which reminded me how noisy the things are. The intent of the thread wasn't meant to be mean, it was a lighthearted way of saying the metal pulls are innappropriate for serious work. I think that's the issue. The majority probably aren't worried about the noise because either they aren't using it for serious work or don't clear rooms where it can be an issue. Metal tabs can also give the product a more rugged feel/appearance. Thankfully it's a 2min job to swap it out with cord. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
To be fair I only have 4 pouches with zippers, two DBT and two HSGI. The DBT came with nylon pull tabs on each zipper and I modified my HSGI pogey pouch by cutting the metal pulls off and replacing them with shock cord. I wear the vest they are on regulary and open and close two of the pouches (one of which is the HSGI) on a regular basis and have never had an issue. The DBT pouch is almost 3 years old and the HSGI pouch is close to a year old, maybe older. I'm buying stuff for a second setup and went with the large HSGI radio pouch. I received it today which reminded me how noisy the things are. The intent of the thread wasn't meant to be mean, it was a lighthearted way of saying the metal pulls are innappropriate for serious work. I think that's the issue. The majority probably aren't worried about the noise because either they aren't using it for serious work or don't clear rooms where it can be an issue. Metal tabs can also give the product a more rugged feel/appearance. Thankfully it's a 2min job to swap it out with cord. seriously 
thats about as bad of an argument as the guys who say they wont use mag pouches with velcro because the enemy might hear them when they are reloading. and if you are really that sensitive about it, you can put elec tape on them. HSGI has been in business for a long ass time, with a majority of business done with the USMC Recon/MARSOC communities. I would think that if someone would have something to say about the zippers, it would be them. if Gene says that it is to make a more reliable pouch with those tabs, i have to believe him and i would have to believe that that conclusion has come from a lot of experience from the end user. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
To be fair I only have 4 pouches with zippers, two DBT and two HSGI. The DBT came with nylon pull tabs on each zipper and I modified my HSGI pogey pouch by cutting the metal pulls off and replacing them with shock cord. I wear the vest they are on regulary and open and close two of the pouches (one of which is the HSGI) on a regular basis and have never had an issue. The DBT pouch is almost 3 years old and the HSGI pouch is close to a year old, maybe older. I'm buying stuff for a second setup and went with the large HSGI radio pouch. I received it today which reminded me how noisy the things are. The intent of the thread wasn't meant to be mean, it was a lighthearted way of saying the metal pulls are innappropriate for serious work. I think that's the issue. The majority probably aren't worried about the noise because either they aren't using it for serious work or don't clear rooms where it can be an issue. Metal tabs can also give the product a more rugged feel/appearance. Thankfully it's a 2min job to swap it out with cord. seriously
thats about as bad of an argument as the guys who say they wont use mag pouches with velcro because the enemy might hear them when they are reloading. and if you are really that sensitive about it, you can put elec tape on them. HSGI has been in business for a long ass time, with a majority of business done with the USMC Recon/MARSOC communities. I would think that if someone would have something to say about the zippers, it would be them. if Gene says that it is to make a more reliable pouch with those tabs, i have to believe him and i would have to believe that that conclusion has come from a lot of experience from the end user. Yep... guys, a little noise from your shit isn't going to get anyone killed. You're not solid snake. |
|
A little noise is fine, but these things literally sound like sleigh bells with little movement. And a lot of noise is a problem when stealth is a consideration.
Also, numerous companies make products on contract with MIL/LE, but that doesn't mean every product they make is appropriate for the MIL/LE role. |
|
Quoted:
A little noise is fine, but these things literally sound like sleigh bells with little movement. And a lot of noise is a problem when stealth is a consideration. Also, numerous companies make products on contract with MIL/LE, but that doesn't mean every product they make is appropriate for the MIL/LE role. They sound louder to you than they really are. And as Nape said, if you're that concerned wrap them in a few pieces of tape like we used to do dog tags. This is similar to the "no velcro because I'm a DeltaPJTeam6MARSOCninjaassassin" sneaking up on people. But you're complaint has some validity to it- just use the tape. Gene also had a post a while back about how bad those pulls were that people add to thier zippers so he probably doesn't like long flimsy fabric being used whereas metal would be much better. |
|
If they are worried about the noise yet worry about the uneven pulls of using cords. You can change to an heavier zipper / over-built zipper so it won't blow out. I have never seen an #10 zipper blow out on an pouch, no matter how hard I stuff the pouch.. And it has cord pulls too..
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I like the metal pulls myself. I loop 550 through them. It keeps the reliability and makes them easier to manipulate and quiets them. DP I'll have to try this and see if it helps before cutting the metal pulls off. Apply shrink tubing to the pulls as well. Gene@HSGI |
|
Quoted:
Non issue! Reminds me of the guy who was getting all butt hurt over chalk marks on his new kit. Hardly. Its a non issue when the majority of your work is loud convoys or long distance fire fights. It is most definitely an issue when searching a building for someone that is waiting to hurt you. Anyone with any real world experience would not telegraph their position with a flashlight, so why would you with poor noise discipline??? |
|
TBH this shouldn't be an issue, leave them or cut them off, its ultimately up to you and your preferences. Not everyone has the same thoughts on whats best so as a Manufacturer leaving them on is probably the best bet since its a rather quick and simple mod to tailor it to your needs. And just because company A does it differently then company B does not mean one of them is wrong, I am unaware of an industry wide spec pertaining to how a zipper has to be.
I prefer the metal pull to remain intact, to also use the paracord and heat shrink, or am I the only one? But also I prefer locking zippers, so Gene you need to change yours to locking yo. 
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: Non issue! Reminds me of the guy who was getting all butt hurt over chalk marks on his new kit. Hardly. Its a non issue when the majority of your work is loud convoys or long distance fire fights. It is most definitely an issue when searching a building for someone that is waiting to hurt you. Anyone with any real world experience would not telegraph their position with a flashlight, so why would you with poor noise discipline??? It's a nonissue now too. We're talking about an issue that can be resolved in less than 10 minutes with simple tools and supplies that all of us should have on hand. People who want the zipper pulls get them and people who don't can easily get rid of them. Anyone with real world experience knows that in noise discipline is a concern, you make damned sure that your gear is properly silenced before you ever put it to use in an environment where it can get you killed. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Non issue! Reminds me of the guy who was getting all butt hurt over chalk marks on his new kit. Hardly. Its a non issue when the majority of your work is loud convoys or long distance fire fights. It is most definitely an issue when searching a building for someone that is waiting to hurt you. Anyone with any real world experience would not telegraph their position with a flashlight, so why would you with poor noise discipline??? It's a nonissue now too. We're talking about an issue that can be resolved in less than 10 minutes with simple tools and supplies that all of us should have on hand. People who want the zipper pulls get them and people who don't can easily get rid of them. Anyone with real world experience knows that in noise discipline is a concern, you make damned sure that your gear is properly silenced before you ever put it to use in an environment where it can get you killed. I agree. It's just my opinion that the manufacturer should try and make the best end product possible, not one that has to be modified before use. I also understand that everyone has a different requirement for these types of products and the metal pulls may be best for cost and warranty issues for HSGI. It does seem like people are getting a little upset over brand loyalty here though. None of you should take this as an attack against HSGI. It was just a suggestion. |
|
Quoted: I agree. It's just my opinion that the manufacturer should try and make the best end product possible, not one that has to be modified before use. I also understand that everyone has a different requirement for these types of products and the metal pulls may be best for cost and warranty issues for HSGI. It does seem like people are getting a little upset over brand loyalty here though. None of you should take this as an attack against HSGI. It was just a suggestion. Maybe. It seems to me like this is the best option possible, when you consider that while metal pulls are easily removed, it's pretty difficult to add one to a zipper that lacks it. I suppose they could stock both types or make one on a special order basis, but that really overcomplicates things. Sure, there's a miniscule amount of modification required, but I don't think I've ever owned a piece of gear that couldn't be made to work better with a little modification. |
|
Guys, I hear ya.
However if you have had to repair/replace as many zippers/sliders as much as I have due to non-metal tabs, perhaps....maybe you would be singing a different tune. Zippers are not an easy task to repair, nor is it cheap to replace. Have you every had a zipper re-open after you zipped it closed? If so, I would bet that the slider had 550 cord pulls on it! Mostly due to operator error, many do not observe themselves as they just grab the 550 cord and jerk on the zipper. Slider were not designed to be operated in this manner. They were designed to be grasped by the metal pull directly next to the slider itself, so it will glide in the direction of the zipper tape. Many unknowingly apply unnecessary torque on the slider, causing the plates of the slider to expand. It's the trailing edge of the slider plates that fuse the zipper's teeth to bond together. Torquing the slider causes the top and bottom plates of the slider to spread apart, therefore not allowing the slider to thoroughly compress the zipper's teeth together. When this happens, people call upon someone to fix, repair or replace. This cost you $$$. I rather not have to see you spend your $$$ on repairs, therefore we help you out by making it less possible for you to break. Many whom come into the shop for repairs, I make them fix it themselves. Then they learn the destructiveness that they have caused. Rather than taking their $$, I teach them how to make repairs which is easy to do and really useful when they are out in the field. I can make a fortune repairing, however in most cases it only takes me less than a minute to fix. If you need to apply 550 cord to a slider, discipline yourself to grasp it up close as possible. Don't put a mile of 550 cord on it and just jerk. Use it as a locating device, more so than a lazy way to destroy your gear. Gene @ HSGI |
|
Quoted:
... It's just my opinion that the manufacturer should try and make the best end product possible, ..... The problem is, HSGI has two options: 1. Put a metal pull on. Pro is the zipper is reliable. Nobody starts a thread, "HSGI your zippers suck and I lost my shit." Con is, people complain about noise. 2. Put a silent pull of some sort on. Pro is the zipper is quiet. Con is that people complaint about your shitty zippers. So if the options are noisy zipper or shitty zipper, which one is the best end product possible? |
Armory Sponsor