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Posted: 5/14/2014 4:02:36 PM EDT
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As we all know, Dillon 650s are too abrupt when rotating the case plate if using a charge which is near the top of the case. This normally affects 9mm and .223 for the common calibers. In my case, 9mm.
So, I stopped by Home Depot tonight and grabbed a multipack of springs looking for something better. There was nothing in the pack which appeared superior, but there were 3 springs which appear to be a pretty close match to the Dillon OEM spring. I started cutting the stock spring in 1/2 coil increments. After 1 full coil was cut I tested with powder. I still had spillage. I cut another 1/2 coil off and the OEM spring is toast. So, I cut 1/2 coil off the Home Depot replacement and my press is functioning normally again but the plate stop is still abrupt. I'll start cutting in 1/4 coil increments tomorrow and see what happens. Anyone have any advice? I have watched a few YouTube vids on the topic. |
| I cut 1 coil off the spring and slowed down my handle speed and the spillage problem was gone loading 9mm. Since I load 9mm for competition I am in no hurry to crank out rounds and my slow pace still allows for about 300-350 rounds an hour. Before clipping the spring the spillage was so bad the shell plate would be covered in flakes after just a few rounds. It seems the spillage comes from the abrupt stop when the detent ball locks in to the bottom of the shell plate. |
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Make sure your machine is in time. Especially take note to how the case is inserted into the shell plate and adjust the camming pin (pn# 13371). Most of the machines that I saw that the owners were complaining about having powder spilling issues did not have the pin adjusted down far enough and when the case is inserted. In this situation, the case controls the rotation and stopping of the shell plate, instead of the ring indexer. Clipping the index ball spring is almost mandatory. It does seem like it is a stronger spring than is needed. I've clipped mine, and after years they still function correctly. |
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Pro 2000's have the same "feature." Rather than cut on the spring, I went to the spring section at Ace Hardware and bought the same size spring in a lighter wire. Worked pretty well. Then I found out RCBS has a lighter spring for the asking.....so I asked....had it in three days. Worked about the same as the one I found at Ace.
Some 650 users have tried to smooth out the abrupt stop by using a roller bearing under the shell plate bolt.....not sure how successful that went....not an option with the RCBS press. I wonder what Dillon did to make the 1050 press not do that? Anyone know? Hornady smoothed out their press by 1/2 indexing (half turn down, then the other half as you raise the handle). But even so, I still hear complaints from Hornady users as well. |
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Read this for a good fix.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86570 |
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It's just my opinion, but I believe the needle thrust bearing just puts a bandaid on a improperly timed machine. |
| You're out of time without a doubt. Call Dillon and let them send you the timing pin that goes on top of the primer punch and allows you to time the indexer block properly. The indexer block should be pulling the indexer ring to its final location not the detent ball pulling the shell plate to its final position. |
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Quoted: You're out of time without a doubt. Call Dillon and let them send you the timing pin that goes on top of the primer punch and allows you to time the indexer block properly. The indexer block should be pulling the indexer ring to its final location not the detent ball pulling the shell plate to its final position. The cam pin has to be adjusted properly, if not the act of inserting the case is what is moving the plate and/or impacting the shell plate improperly causing powder spillage.
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Its not the insertion of the case that causes the problem. Its the abrupt stop of the shell plate when it reaches the next station. You can stop the plate from stopping quickly by exerting a little bit of pressure from your left hand using a finger against shell plate. However this becomes tiring after about 500 rounds, and you will get a cramp in your hand. The thrust bearing works really well, its just like using your finger when setup properly. It does take time to get the pressure just right on the bearing, but it does work. |
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Quoted: Its not the insertion of the case that causes the problem. Its the abrupt stop of the shell plate when it reaches the next station. You can stop the plate from stopping quickly by exerting a little bit of pressure from your left hand using a finger against shell plate. However this becomes tiring after about 500 rounds, and you will get a cramp in your hand. The thrust bearing works really well, its just like using your finger when setup properly. It does take time to get the pressure just right on the bearing, but it does work. On my machines the shell plate would advance abruptly, and stop abruptly when the case slide forces the shell plate to the next station. Perhaps I'm just lucky and never had the problem that the thrust bearing users have?
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Adding washers and such is a waste of time and money. Read THIS and discover that it is simply an adjustment issue. |
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Quoted:
Adding washers and such is a waste of time and money. Read THIS and discover that it is simply an adjustment issue. Thanks for posting. I'll try this tonight. |
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OK, I played with this a bit tonight. Honestly, it didn't seem to make much of a difference when watching the indexing on an empty shell plate. However, as stated in the other thread, moving too far forward does affect primer indexing. If the indexer is all the way forward, the shell plate will not align properly and move back counter-clockwise a bit when returning to the neutral position. I think I found the right position which is probably pretty damn close to how it came from the factory.
The above combined with my Home Depot spring with 1/2 coil cut off seemed OK on a VERY limited run (10 rounds). However, now my powder drop die has slipped a bit and the case is not belling enough. I'm done playing for tonight, other things to do. I'll adjust the powder die tomorrow and try for a longer run of 100-200 rounds and see what happens. My cage bearing should arrive in the AM so I'll have one more thing to try if so inclined. Or, I may just continue down the spring cutting route since I have extras and know where to find more in a hurry. |
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I loaded ~150 rounds this AM. Things appear much better. My cage bearing did not arrive yet, but when it does, I'm just going to set it off to the side for now. I think I have things tuned OK for now.
To recap... Go to Home Depot and buy this: Everbilt Spring Assortment Kit (84-Pack) Inside that pack are 3 springs which are a replacement for the Dillon OEM spring. They will be obvious. Cut 1/2 coil off of a spring and replace the OEM spring. See above for the thread on how to adjust the indexer. Remember: all the way forward WILL cause indexing issues. My sweet spot was a little bit back from this. There isn't a lot of room to play with this adjustment. Things this AM were much better than before. There was a flake or two of spillage, but much cleaner overall. I'm not sure if this is the end-all-be-all of fixes, but it is working for me now. |
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