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Posted: 2/15/2008 11:57:49 AM EDT
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So I just got my paperwork back for my first SBR. I am sorry to ask this question, but I can't seem to find a good answer. I have read hundreds of posts here and can't quite convince myself of the correct answer. I "made" my SBR in the fact that I bought a lower from a lower manufacturer with a manufacturers serial number on it. Now I will buy parts and "build" the gun myself. I am not listed as the Maker on my Form 1. I am the Owner. My lower, is an L.A.R. lower with a serial number on it. That is what is registered on the Form 1. Do I still have to engrave my personal name on the SBR lower? Everything I read seems to say you have to engrave your name, location on the SBR, but it makes no sense to me that I would have to as I did not "Make" the lower, LAR made the lower and it has a registered serial number. What do I do? Thanks in advance. |
Two options Transfer a factory registered SBR to you via Form 4 (transfer). No engraving because it will have the factory engravings on it. This is like CMMG selling the PS90 as an SBR, it has a CMMG engraving on it. They transfer them on Form 4's to civilians. Or Build a SBR, this is done with a Form 1. Even though it has engravings on it already, you are requesting to build a Title II firearm and you need to identify yourself as the manufacturer. The serial number stays the same, but now you are the manufacturer so you engrave your information on it. Edit: You engrave name and location, so if its yours personally (not an llc, corp or trust) you engrave something like John D. City, OH or J. Doe City, OH or John Doe City, OH etc etc etc. My engravings are AR & NR Trust {City} OH |
OK. So even though my lower has engravings on it including a manufacturer (not me) serial number that is on my Form 1, since I am the entity (manufacturer) that turned the lower into a SBR via the form 1, I need to engrave my name, location on it. Right? |
Correct you need to have it engraved. Do a search for Orion arms as they come highly recommended around here. |
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Thanks for the help. I'm sorry to asked this question. I have been reading posts for weeks now trying to figure it out. I guess my confusion was coming from the use of the word "manufacturer" or "maker". Since I didn't manufacturer or make the lower I couldn't figure out why I should have to engrave it since it already would have a registered serial number. But now that I look at it from the viewpoint that I personally turned it into a SBR by the Form 1, it makes more sense that I would be the "Maker" or "Manufacturer" because I am the one that MADE it into an SBR via the Form 1. Thanks again. You guys rock and are all so knowledgeable. The FAQ,s, the links to the forms, and everything else about the SBR process sure made it smooth for me. I found everything I needed to know and the help to do it right here!!! Here are a few pics for fun of my just completed first (but not last) SBR!!! Technical stuff cause I know how you guys like it: Lower: LAR 5.56 / .223 (made in West Jordan, UT / Check out the "lightning cut" on the lower. With a nice gray magpul magazine in there it looks awesome since you can see the magazine through the lower. I'd post a pic with the magazine in it, but I don't have a mag with me. Maybe later...) Upper: RRA 10.5" Knights Armament quad rail Surefire Scout weapon light EOTech 512 sight BUIS by Magtec (cheap ones from ctd.com) Foregrip (another cheapy from ctd.com but I love it. has a bike tube around it for stickiness and to keep the pressure switch right where I want it) Has ambi-safety, tactical bolt catch, tactical sling, Tapco telestock, magpul trigger guard, stock DPMS bolt springs and pins. And Yes, I am a lefty. So that explains the sling location and the light location. As a side note on the EOTech, the KA quad rail is designed for use with the Aimpoint Micro. However, I absolutely love having the EOTech a bit higher. It comes up cleaner for me. I don't like the look of the co-witness with the BUIS so having the EOTech a bit higher is not a big deal for me as I plan to rarely use the BUIS. I figure if I ever have to use the BUIS, I can have the EOTech off in a few seconds. BTW, the engraving is done now...I did it myself with a dremel inside the magazine well as others have suggested on this forum. Worked great for me. Not the prettiest job ever, but it gives my gun personality! Thanks again to everyone. http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/PaulDouglasWhite/SBR1.jpg http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/PaulDouglasWhite/SBR2.jpg http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc223/PaulDouglasWhite/SBR3.jpg |
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It's simple. Manufacturer means manufacturer of the NFA device. The company that made that AR15 lower did not make a NFA device. They made a regular Title 1 AR15 lower. You are the one that made it a NFA device (by filling out the Form 1 and attaching a short barrel or stock to it), so you are the 'maker'. |
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You want to be careful with these terms. For purposes of NFA, "Manufacturer" usually means a licensee. While the Form 1 calls you the "Applicant," it is an application to "make and register a firearm." Notice it's not to "Manufacture" a firearm which would inherently mean a licensee using a Form 2. You, the Form 1 "Applicant" are in fact the unlicensed "Maker" of the NFA firearm and hence need to engrave your info on the receiver or barrel of the SBR. Since the receiver already has a unique serial number (the one added by LAR), you do not need to engrave another one. As used on the Form 1 under 4a, the "original manufacturer" is whomever manufacturered the Title I receiver you are subsequently "making" into an NFA firearm. In this case, LAR as you mentioned. It uses the word "manufacturer" though this does not necessarily mean the entity is a licensee. If, for example, you took an 80% lower and finished the machine work yourself creating a Title I AR lower and then subsequently wanted to Form 1 it into an SBR, then 4a would be filled out with your info also as the "original manufacturer" even though you might not be a licensee. |
I'm going to piggyback off this thread (it answered the question I was about to ask, ain't search great?!  ).I am located in The Colony, TX which is a suburb of Dallas. Could I get away with engraving "Dallas, TX" on my lower, or do I have to engrave the city in which I lived at the time I sent in my Form 1? |
If I dropped a letter in the mail to your street address but with the city as Dallas, would you get it? If so you're probably good to go. |
I actually called the NFA branch and they were very helpful. I told Ernie my dilemma, and he said you should put the city that you lived in when you applied for the SBR. In my case, it has to say "the colony". FYI. |
You know what happens when you assume, right? I have not received the tax stamp, so I have not assembled shit. |
So you also ASSumed I was refering to you Im refering to the original poster who says no engarving and has posted pictures of his rifle assembled |
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Question....In the FAQ it says, "Additionally the manufacturer of any NFA weapon, including an individual making one on a Form 1 must mark the receiver of the weapon with the maker's name and city and state." My question is with the word "mark." I had a gunshop write my name and city, st on the lower, but they did it with a machine that it used to do artistic engraving. That being said, it is "marked", it is permanet, but it is not very deep. Is this going to be a problem? Can I find a local ATF and ask to show it to them? Should I just get it cut deeper? |
It needs to be at least .003" deep. 27 CFR 479.102 |
No. Alot of engraving places want you to send the approved Form 4 with the receiver when you sent it off to get engraved. How can you send the firearm to be engraved with the Form 4, before you get the Form 4 back from the ATF? Just keep it unassembled and get it engraved as soon as possible when the stamp comes in. |
Fixed it for you. 
The best time to engrave is before you send your paperwork to BATFE. That way a Title I receiver gets lost or boogered up, not a Title II receiver. |
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