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Posted: 10/16/2010 7:27:07 AM EDT
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Ok guys I am new to the FAL and need some help.
The local fun shop has a century arms FAL for 600$ and I am really thinking about buying it. They are selling it for a customer ant it has been there for a long time. The original price was around 950 but the gun shop owner has gotten him to lower the price. Anyways I played with it yesterday and it seems to be in really good shape. it has a brand new longer barrel, approx 24" and with flash suppressor (built during the ban?). It take metric mags and comes with two of them. It seems to be very plain with black plastic foregrip and stock. I guess the owner has only shot it a handful of times and it was hitting targets with no problem. The reason he is trying to sell it is he needs some money. The gun shop owner said the gentleman he is selling it for is a very honest guy and trusts him. Sorry no pics but what do you guys think? Like I said I don't know much about them and I would appreciate all input. Thanks **UPDATE** Well I purchased it. 700$ and it came with 4 mags + some ugly mag pouches, a bunch of springs, a tapco tool of some sort and a manual. Here are some pics. I found some markings on the bolt. Sorry for the bad pics as I took them with my phone. Any help on ID'ing the parts kit used? 
EDIT EXTRA PICS Hopefully this helps... 
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Not being difficult, but you are going to have to post MUCH more info than that. The manufacturer of the upper receiver, markings or stampings the rifle may have, more specific condition than 'really nice'.
FAL's were fielded by 93 countries, many of which built them to their specifications. Many of the rifles in this country were built from kits imported from a most of the 93 countries, hence the need for more info. Pics are a HUGE help; even less-than-optimal cell phone pics are enough to point in the right direction. Century built a LOT of FAL's over the years from many different country's parts. It's not uncommon to find British, Canadian, and Brazilian parts on one rifle. Build quality varied widely, as well, so the more info you can provide the better. Some Century rifles work well out of the box, while most require tweaking of some sort to run optimally. That said, $600 for a functioning FAL is a good deal these days. More so if the previous owner replaced some of the shoddy parts that Century used on some of their builds. Usually any repairs or tweaking that has to be done is minor and inexpensive, just swapping out parts. Sometimes the repairs can be more expensive, hence the need for as much info as you can give. |
| Look on the upper to find who made it. Imbel receivers were popular, both with the "gear logo" and plain Imbel markings. There will be stampings everywhere on the rifle, from the buttplate to the barrel, that will denote which country the original kit came from. As I said earlier, Century's FAL's were usually a mish-mash of parts from different countries. I would recommend visiting the FAL Files and asking your questions there. LOTS of knowledgeable folks there.. |
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Another question.
Has anyone ever taken their furniture off and painted it? I really like the OD color for the buttstock, pistol grip and front handguards as it breaks up the color of the rifle but dont see the need to buy all new gear if I can just paint it. Krylon OD is pretty decent paint Im just not sure how well it would hold up. Any thoughts? |
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Quoted: Another question. Has anyone ever taken their furniture off and painted it? I really like the OD color for the buttstock, pistol grip and front handguards as it breaks up the color of the rifle but dont see the need to buy all new gear if I can just paint it. Krylon OD is pretty decent paint Im just not sure how well it would hold up. Any thoughts? Use Krylon FUSION paint. It is made specifically for painting plastic. You can use it either as your finish coat or as a primer for other paint. It is durable and is made in several colors. The Century butt stock and pistol grip that are on your rifle are reasonably adequate for non combat use, but the hand guards are not. When they get warm, they get soft. I would replace them with either surplus hand guards or DSA Belgian pattern hand guards if you are concerned about that 922R compliance nonsense. From the picture, it looks like it has a Green Mountain barrel. I have no personal experience with Green Mountain barrels, but I do not recall reading or hearing of any problems with them. I could be wrong though. I was wrong once back in 1976 and ever since then I have had to consider that it might happen again. The rest of the parts appear to be metric pattern. The country of origin really doesn't matter. All of the licensed manufacturers made quality products. So as long as the parts are serviceable, you will have a good rifle. The only real concern would be the upper receiver. Some Century uppers are problematic, and others are not. You won't know until you run some ammo through it. If it runs well and is properly head spaced, it will be as good as any other upper. ETA:What is that in the second picture? ETA2: Never mind. I figured out what it is. |
Closeup shots of the receiver are needed to determine who actually made the receiver. Common manufacturers are IMBEL and DCI. Both are good receivers, and the Imbel marking inside a big gear is desirable for some reason. It looks like a Century Arms kit-built StG 58, sort of. As I stated in my 1st post, it's not uncommon to find parts from several countries in one FAL. The barrel does not appear to be cut for a bipod, but that may be a good thing. The lack of muzzle threads tells me that this rifle was built during the '94 ban era. The good news is that threading the muzzle for a brake or flash suppressor is now inexpensive and legal, as long as there are enough US parts in the rifle. I like the looks of a proper muzzle device on a FAL, so naturally my personal FAL is an Israeli light-barrel ,which didn't have threads on the muzzle. Go figure...
That said, you should take this rifle to the range after having it checked out by a competent gunsmith familiar to FAL rifles. Once you determine the rifle is a good shooter the next question is how you want the rifle configured. Some people would leave that rifle alone, others would try to get the rifle as close to original condition as possible. My Izzy is a hybrid; almost all Israeli except for parts that make the rifle more comfortable, like a different rear sight that doesn't hit my glasses and subtle shaping of the rear stock for comfort. If you're not already a member at FalFiles I highly recommend joining. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people there who can assist you in any way you need. Just be sure to use the 'SEARCH' function before asking certain questions, as chances are high the answer is archived somewhere. Good luck with your rifle. John |
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Another question. Has anyone ever taken their furniture off and painted it? I really like the OD color for the buttstock, pistol grip and front handguards as it breaks up the color of the rifle but dont see the need to buy all new gear if I can just paint it. Krylon OD is pretty decent paint Im just not sure how well it would hold up. Any thoughts? Use Krylon FUSION paint. It is made specifically for painting plastic. You can use it either as your finish coat or as a primer for other paint. It is durable and is made in several colors. The Century butt stock and pistol grip that are on your rifle are reasonably adequate for non combat use, but the hand guards are not. When they get warm, they get soft. I would replace them with either surplus hand guards or DSA Belgian pattern hand guards if you are concerned about that 922R compliance nonsense. From the picture, it looks like it has a Green Mountain barrel. I have no personal experience with Green Mountain barrels, but I do not recall reading or hearing of any problems with them. I could be wrong though. I was wrong once back in 1976 and ever since then I have had to consider that it might happen again. The rest of the parts appear to be metric pattern. The country of origin really doesn't matter. All of the licensed manufacturers made quality products. So as long as the parts are serviceable, you will have a good rifle. The only real concern would be the upper receiver. Some Century uppers are problematic, and others are not. You won't know until you run some ammo through it. If it runs well and is properly head spaced, it will be as good as any other upper. ETA:What is that in the second picture? ETA2: Never mind. I figured out what it is. Thanks for the reply. I did notice that front hand guard was a little "chinsey" so I will replace it asap. I will also take it out to the range soon to see how she shoots. |
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Closeup shots of the receiver are needed to determine who actually made the receiver. Common manufacturers are IMBEL and DCI. Both are good receivers, and the Imbel marking inside a big gear is desirable for some reason. It looks like a Century Arms kit-built StG 58, sort of. As I stated in my 1st post, it's not uncommon to find parts from several countries in one FAL. The barrel does not appear to be cut for a bipod, but that may be a good thing. The lack of muzzle threads tells me that this rifle was built during the '94 ban era. The good news is that threading the muzzle for a brake or flash suppressor is now inexpensive and legal, as long as there are enough US parts in the rifle. I like the looks of a proper muzzle device on a FAL, so naturally my personal FAL is an Israeli light-barrel ,which didn't have threads on the muzzle. Go figure...
That said, you should take this rifle to the range after having it checked out by a competent gunsmith familiar to FAL rifles. Once you determine the rifle is a good shooter the next question is how you want the rifle configured. Some people would leave that rifle alone, others would try to get the rifle as close to original condition as possible. My Izzy is a hybrid; almost all Israeli except for parts that make the rifle more comfortable, like a different rear sight that doesn't hit my glasses and subtle shaping of the rear stock for comfort. If you're not already a member at FalFiles I highly recommend joining. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people there who can assist you in any way you need. Just be sure to use the 'SEARCH' function before asking certain questions, as chances are high the answer is archived somewhere. Good luck with your rifle. John Thanks for the reply, The only markings other than the ones on the bolt (that I took a picture of) were some small arabic looking markings but the picture didnt turn out. I can try and take another pic and post it if it would help. Any suggestions on what muzzle device to install to keep it as original looking as possible? I also sent my membership into fal files and I am waiting to hear back from the mods. 
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Hebrew Battle Rifle,
I don't know.... The number of Century FALs that were built during the ban that didn't have muzzle threads, maybe? I could be wrong, as I'm no authority on FALs , but nobody else stepped up ,so I offered an opinion. If you say it's a Green Mountain barrel, then it very well may be. My '67 Izzy doesn't have them either.... Take your pick on muzzle devices. Many to choose from like the standard 22mm combo device seen on many metric rifles, the long StG58 piece, to the Vortex(which isn't standard anywhere, but it's a very nice flash suppressor). A pic of mine. No muzzle device except for a n Israeli clip-on grenade launcher spigot I found at Knob Creek a few weeks ago. 
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Quoted: The second picture in this thread is of the inside of the bolt carrier. If you can, take and post pics of the top of the bolt carrier and of the bolt. The top pic indicates that the lower is either a type 1 or type 2 metric. Pics of the lower markings and the inside of the lower would also help. Quoted: Closeup shots of the receiver are needed to determine who actually made the receiver. Common manufacturers are IMBEL and DCI. Both are good receivers, and the Imbel marking inside a big gear is desirable for some reason. It looks like a Century Arms kit-built StG 58, sort of. As I stated in my 1st post, it's not uncommon to find parts from several countries in one FAL. The barrel does not appear to be cut for a bipod, but that may be a good thing. The lack of muzzle threads tells me that this rifle was built during the '94 ban era. The good news is that threading the muzzle for a brake or flash suppressor is now inexpensive and legal, as long as there are enough US parts in the rifle. I like the looks of a proper muzzle device on a FAL, so naturally my personal FAL is an Israeli light-barrel ,which didn't have threads on the muzzle. Go figure... That said, you should take this rifle to the range after having it checked out by a competent gunsmith familiar to FAL rifles. Once you determine the rifle is a good shooter the next question is how you want the rifle configured. Some people would leave that rifle alone, others would try to get the rifle as close to original condition as possible. My Izzy is a hybrid; almost all Israeli except for parts that make the rifle more comfortable, like a different rear sight that doesn't hit my glasses and subtle shaping of the rear stock for comfort. If you're not already a member at FalFiles I highly recommend joining. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people there who can assist you in any way you need. Just be sure to use the 'SEARCH' function before asking certain questions, as chances are high the answer is archived somewhere. Good luck with your rifle. John Thanks for the reply, The only markings other than the ones on the bolt (that I took a picture of) were some small arabic looking markings but the picture didnt turn out. I can try and take another pic and post it if it would help. Any suggestions on what muzzle device to install to keep it as original looking as possible? I also sent my membership into fal files and I am waiting to hear back from the mods. |
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The second picture in this thread is of the inside of the bolt carrier. If you can, take and post pics of the top of the bolt carrier and of the bolt. The top pic indicates that the lower is either a type 1 or type 2 metric. Pics of the lower markings and the inside of the lower would also help.
Quoted:
Closeup shots of the receiver are needed to determine who actually made the receiver. Common manufacturers are IMBEL and DCI. Both are good receivers, and the Imbel marking inside a big gear is desirable for some reason. It looks like a Century Arms kit-built StG 58, sort of. As I stated in my 1st post, it's not uncommon to find parts from several countries in one FAL. The barrel does not appear to be cut for a bipod, but that may be a good thing. The lack of muzzle threads tells me that this rifle was built during the '94 ban era. The good news is that threading the muzzle for a brake or flash suppressor is now inexpensive and legal, as long as there are enough US parts in the rifle. I like the looks of a proper muzzle device on a FAL, so naturally my personal FAL is an Israeli light-barrel ,which didn't have threads on the muzzle. Go figure...
That said, you should take this rifle to the range after having it checked out by a competent gunsmith familiar to FAL rifles. Once you determine the rifle is a good shooter the next question is how you want the rifle configured. Some people would leave that rifle alone, others would try to get the rifle as close to original condition as possible. My Izzy is a hybrid; almost all Israeli except for parts that make the rifle more comfortable, like a different rear sight that doesn't hit my glasses and subtle shaping of the rear stock for comfort. If you're not already a member at FalFiles I highly recommend joining. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people there who can assist you in any way you need. Just be sure to use the 'SEARCH' function before asking certain questions, as chances are high the answer is archived somewhere. Good luck with your rifle. John Thanks for the reply, The only markings other than the ones on the bolt (that I took a picture of) were some small arabic looking markings but the picture didnt turn out. I can try and take another pic and post it if it would help. Any suggestions on what muzzle device to install to keep it as original looking as possible? I also sent my membership into fal files and I am waiting to hear back from the mods. Copy that. Give me a few days and check back for pics. |
| Hard to tell from the limited angles in pictures but the lower is either a type I or II, non lightening cut. Probably South Africa too, need more pictures to confirm. Does selector have an "R" on the arm? If so it's either FN or SA and at one time had an extra notch stopping the the rotation to full auto. It was likely ground off when it spent it's time in Rhodesia. Looks like it has a cotter pin hole which is usually found on the semi only selectors from that era. |
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Hard to tell from the limited angles in pictures but the lower is either a type I or II, non lightening cut. Probably South Africa too, need more pictures to confirm. Does selector have an "R" on the arm? If so it's either FN or SA and at one time had an extra notch stopping the the rotation to full auto. It was likely ground off when it spent it's time in Rhodesia. Looks like it has a cotter pin hole which is usually found on the semi only selectors from that era. Yes there is an S, R and A on the selector. How can I tell the difference between a FN and SA lower? |
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Truth is it's OK. From a historical standpoint it's interesting but most of the parts that came out of Rhodesia were rode hard. Not to say you didn't get a good set because you may have. Do the serial #'s match on bolt and carrier, lock up tight, must depress firing pin to remove bolt or does bolt fall free on its own? If matched and tight it's worth $110 alone.
Selector: Your selector markings SRA are on the lower itself. Does the arm of the selector have an "R" also? Does the lower have an "RA" # on the side? Does lower have a M inside a U, a drill mark by lock lever hole, grind marks around serial # on lower? Does the barrel have markings? 0 on flats or 0 with a P inside? Anywhere else? Markings on the H/T/S? #'s in boxes, #'s in ovals, #'s in round topped rectangles? Markings on sight aperture? Here are some rifles to gauge against yours. The top rifle has an R selector http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298166 |
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Truth is it's OK. From a historical standpoint it's interesting but most of the parts that came out of Rhodesia were rode hard. Not to say you didn't get a good set because you may have. Do the serial #'s match on bolt and carrier, lock up tight, must depress firing pin to remove bolt or does bolt fall free on its own? If matched and tight it's worth $110 alone. Selector: Your selector markings SRA are on the lower itself. Does the arm of the selector have an "R" also? yes Does the lower have an "RA" # on the side? yes Does lower have a M inside a U possibly, looks like a small m with 2 lines next to it. lines not connected, a drill mark by lock lever hole not sure, grind marks around serial # on lower? no Does the barrel have markings? 0 on flats or 0 with a P inside? Anywhere else? no Markings on the H/T/S? #'s in boxes, #'s in ovals, #'s in round topped rectangles? not sure, didnt see any. only markings i took a pic of and posted Markings on sight aperture? just the 23456 Here are some rifles to gauge against yours. The top rifle has an R selector http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298166 I also took a closer look and the numbers do not match but the bolt is nice and tight. You have to really depress the firing pin to get it to come out. |
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Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. HTS? What do you mean by that. No marking on the aperture. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. HTS? What do you mean by that. No marking on the aperture. HTS= hammer, trigger, sear. Your rifle was made with quality parts. If the barrel is a Green Mountain barrel, it may or may not be good quality. If it is IMBEL, and isn't worn out, then it is a good quality barrel. Measure the length of the barrel. To do this, close the bolt, insert a cleaning rod into the bore until it touches the bolt, mark the rod where the muzzle ends, then measure the distance from the mark to the end of the rod. I'll bet that it is 21 inches. Count the number of grooves in the bore and let us know what that number is. |
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Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. HTS? What do you mean by that. No marking on the aperture. HTS= hammer, trigger, sear. Your rifle was made with quality parts. If the barrel is a Green Mountain barrel, it may or may not be good quality. If it is IMBEL, and isn't worn out, then it is a good quality barrel. Measure the length of the barrel. To do this, close the bolt, insert a cleaning rod into the bore until it touches the bolt, mark the rod where the muzzle ends, then measure the distance from the mark to the end of the rod. I'll bet that it is 21 inches. Count the number of grooves in the bore and let us know what that number is. Copy that I will do that tomorrow when I have access to the rifle. |
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Truth is it's OK. From a historical standpoint it's interesting but most of the parts that came out of Rhodesia were rode hard. Not to say you didn't get a good set because you may have. Do the serial #'s match on bolt and carrier, lock up tight, must depress firing pin to remove bolt or does bolt fall free on its own? If matched and tight it's worth $110 alone. Selector: Your selector markings SRA are on the lower itself. Does the arm of the selector have an "R" also? Does the lower have an "RA" # on the side? Does lower have a M inside a U, a drill mark by lock lever hole, grind marks around serial # on lower? Does the barrel have markings? 0 on flats or 0 with a P inside? Anywhere else? Markings on the H/T/S? #'s in boxes, #'s in ovals, #'s in round topped rectangles? Markings on sight aperture? Here are some rifles to gauge against yours. The top rifle has an R selector http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=298166 So what do all of these things mean/dictate? |
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Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. HTS? What do you mean by that. No marking on the aperture. HTS= hammer, trigger, sear. Your rifle was made with quality parts. If the barrel is a Green Mountain barrel, it may or may not be good quality. If it is IMBEL, and isn't worn out, then it is a good quality barrel. Measure the length of the barrel. To do this, close the bolt, insert a cleaning rod into the bore until it touches the bolt, mark the rod where the muzzle ends, then measure the distance from the mark to the end of the rod. I'll bet that it is 21 inches. Count the number of grooves in the bore and let us know what that number is. You were correct 21" and 6 grooves. |
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Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. I did find a couple of D's with 11 stamped inside of it, those were on the front sight. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. HTS? What do you mean by that. No marking on the aperture. HTS= hammer, trigger, sear. Your rifle was made with quality parts. If the barrel is a Green Mountain barrel, it may or may not be good quality. If it is IMBEL, and isn't worn out, then it is a good quality barrel. Measure the length of the barrel. To do this, close the bolt, insert a cleaning rod into the bore until it touches the bolt, mark the rod where the muzzle ends, then measure the distance from the mark to the end of the rod. I'll bet that it is 21 inches. Count the number of grooves in the bore and let us know what that number is. You were correct 21" and 6 grooves. Green Mountain. |
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Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. HTS? What do you mean by that. No marking on the aperture. HTS= hammer, trigger, sear. Your rifle was made with quality parts. If the barrel is a Green Mountain barrel, it may or may not be good quality. If it is IMBEL, and isn't worn out, then it is a good quality barrel. Measure the length of the barrel. To do this, close the bolt, insert a cleaning rod into the bore until it touches the bolt, mark the rod where the muzzle ends, then measure the distance from the mark to the end of the rod. I'll bet that it is 21 inches. Count the number of grooves in the bore and let us know what that number is. You were correct 21" and 6 grooves. Green Mountain. You said it could be bad. So is that a bad thing? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lower is South African. HTS is likely South African or possibly Imbel. Completely unmarked barrel is either a US made or possibly Imbel. 23456 on sight is base... I'm asking about the aperture, on sides by the elevation button. HTS? What do you mean by that. No marking on the aperture. HTS= hammer, trigger, sear. Your rifle was made with quality parts. If the barrel is a Green Mountain barrel, it may or may not be good quality. If it is IMBEL, and isn't worn out, then it is a good quality barrel. Measure the length of the barrel. To do this, close the bolt, insert a cleaning rod into the bore until it touches the bolt, mark the rod where the muzzle ends, then measure the distance from the mark to the end of the rod. I'll bet that it is 21 inches. Count the number of grooves in the bore and let us know what that number is. You were correct 21" and 6 grooves. Green Mountain. You said it could be bad. So is that a bad thing? I don't know. I haven't read enough about those barrels to know. I haven't read any negative posts about them though. You will have to get some quality ammo and see how it shoots. |
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Quoted: Could you elaborate on this please?Well I made it out today and I was shooting through the same hole at 25 yards. At 100 yards I was at 1-2 MOA with iron sights. I was pretty happy with the results. I do need to deal with a headspace issue and I need to find a shorter front sight. |
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Could you elaborate on this please?
Well I made it out today and I was shooting through the same hole at 25 yards. At 100 yards I was at 1-2 MOA with iron sights. I was pretty happy with the results. I do need to deal with a headspace issue and I need to find a shorter front sight. We used a head space gauge and when we popped in the NO-GO tool the bolt closed with no problem. |
| Get with the folks on FALfiles and find someone local to you for your head space issue. Its probably still good to go for shooting, but probably needs tightened up a little. Which is REALLY easy on the FAL. You just push out the old locking block, measure it for a starting point. Then using pin gauges and the headspace gauge, you determine the correct size. Replace the locking block with the correct size, and your done. Locking shoulders run $20-$40 in most sizes. |
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