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Posted: 12/4/2011 1:00:05 PM EDT
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What's a better battle rifle? Which is more reliable?
Thanks, 1981 |
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Quoted:
The Portuguese would be the best to ask. They used both in combat. Yes, but the AR10 they used is NOT the same as the AR-10 available today and made in Illinois. There are no parts in common between the two. Just a name. The Portuguese AR10 was the final product of almost ten years of development and testing by many armies and agencies, including extensive testing by the US Army. It served the Portuguese very well in Angola and Mozambique under very severe conditions during the 1960's and 70's. They eventually quit using it because they could no longer get replacements and parts, not because of any problems with the rifle. The current AR-10 made in Illinois is known for good accuracy. And it has seen very limited use as a sniper rifle. But it has never been a general issue rifle, or tested heavily enough by anyone to determine whether it would make a useful individual weapon. |
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If you were starting from zero with 308s and had a huge budget then the AR10 would be great. Accurate, easy to mount optics, same controls and feel as the AR15 and looks to be used into the future. The FN FAL can be had for less money. It is fairly reliable. I have mounted optics on it with no problems. And the Irish army has reissued it to their sniper teams for the spoters. I always vote for the FN FAL but I have some spare parts kits and a ton of surplus mags so for me it will always be the FN FAL.
The only way for you to really tell what will work for you is to try both side by side and see what works best. |
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If you ask this same question in the AR forum, a lot of folks will say AR-10....actually they'll say .308 AR that isn't Armalite (who is the only maker of the AR-10). I own a FAL and an LMT MWS, and they're both awesome.
I think the edge goes to the .308 AR pattern because of accuracy and scope mounting capability. AR's are exceptionally reliable...especially if well maintained. Though, a lot of folks have abused theirs and still had exceptionally reliable rifles as well. I'd take either of these over an m1a / m14 pattern (I have owned two). Now, if I have to bug out into God knows what for who knows how long, I'm personally taking an AK. Though this probably isn't considered a "battle rifle." |
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Quoted:
Armalite didn't build those Portuguese AR-10's. That would be Artillerie Inrichtingen in The Netherlands. They were as Armalite as an M-16A1. I'm not familiar with the Portuguese rifles you've mentioned, but I suppose a foreign country can use that model designation if they want. My point, for the OP to avoid semantic trouble in the AR forum, is to avoid calling a KAC, LMT, RRA, Bushy, DPMS, Mega, Remington, CMMG, etc. .308 AR an "AR-10" becasue it isn't technically correct. If he goes over there to ask questions, no need for the water to be muddied for him...as it probably would be by some of the folks in there. So, I guess I'll stand corrected. OP, if you're looking at a Portuguese .308AR, I guess it's an AR-10. 
For all of the others I've listed, which will probably cover 99% of the 308 AR's we own / shoot, they're not AR-10's because the "new" ArmaLite makes AR-10's today. And they're the only American company that can / does call it that. Why is this important? Because I'm not a fan of the AR-10, but I am a fan of the KAC / LMT pattern rifle. There are differences, especially with the AR10's proprietary magazine. |
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Short history lesson:
In the early 1950's, some clever fellows started a company called 'Armalite' to develop and sell firearms. They never had their own factory, just a development shop. They developed the little AR-7 .22 survival rifle still being made by Henry Arms today. They also developed a neat lightweight 12ga semi-auto called the AR-17 'Golden Gun' because of it's gold anodized receiver. And they developed a 7.62x51 military rifle called the AR-10. This was made in several forms and entered production in Holland by the Dutch arms company Artillerie Inrichtingen. The Sudanese bought a bunch in one pattern, others were made for Cuba (pre-Castro), and Guatemala. Finally, Portugal bought about 5000 in 1962. Armalite also developed a rifle they called the AR-15 which they sold to Colt. Colt turned it into the M-16 and made a mint selling them to the US military. Armalite went broke in 1970. Fast forward to 1992. An Army officer named Mark Westrom decides that a semi-auto AR-15 scaled up to .308 would be a neat item to sell. He acquires the rights to call his company 'Armalite'. He develops a rifle using a lot of AR-15 parts to keep costs down. He also uses the M-14 magazine as it is the most commonly-available and cheapest .308 rifle magazine at the time. He calls his rifle the 'AR-10' to capitalize on the respect that the older rifle got thirty years prior. There is nothing in common between the two rifles except the appearance, caliber, and Stoner-style gas system. The earlier, 1960's AR-10 rifles were extensively tested by many governments including the US. They were fielded and saw combat service by the military forces of Guatemala, Sudan, Cuba, and Portugal. The most extensive combat was by Portuguese paratroopers in Mozambique and Angola in the 1970's where it proved to be durable, accurate, and reliable. The newer AR-10 made in Illinois has never been tested as a general-issue rifle. It has been issued in very small numbers as a sniper or Designated Marksman rifle. In those roles it seems to be doing well. I hope this clears up any confusion. |
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