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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FN FNC? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/24/2013 7:47:21 PM EDT
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I'm thinking of getting into a FA rilfe- I already have a trust and an ever increasing number of cans and SBR's/
However, the cost of an AR being as much as a decent used car has me thinking about the FN FNC. I've seen then go for much less than an AR, as you would expect. Anyone have one, or owed one? Accuracy? Reliability? Availibility of spare parts? Any do/don's in terms of buying one? Thanks, |
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Firing pins are sold by DSA and are GTG.
The parts availability issue is a non-issue. If you need parts sturm or subguns is the place to go, and you can find them with some WTB ads (I know, as I have found numerous spares for the fnc doing such). I have around 12,000 rounds through mine and have not broken a thing...... It is built like a brick shit house. The price will always be sub-m16 money, but that is primarily due to how much you can do with ar's. The quality and ruggedness is phenomenal on FNC. I enjoy shooting it as much as my m16 |
| FNC's and Ruger 556's were true bargains in the machinegun world for years, but it looks like the supply of registered sears has dried up and the prices have gone up quite a bit. I had an FNC and the only negatives I can think of are the trigger pull is pretty crappy and there aren't many accessories or a 22lr conversion available for them. I bought extra firing pins for mine because I read that was their weak point, and then of course I never broke one. They are very reliable and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as a SHTF weapon. I only sold mine to help fund an M-16 which is WAY more versatile and has more accessories than anyone can afford. But as you said, they are also way more money. If you can find one in your price range, snatch it up because they aren't getting any cheaper. |
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The parts availability issue is a non-issue. Every piece of machinery when used enough eventually needs overhaul and repair. Spare parts are an issue and one will typically pay through the nose on this one with respect to other guns. Being a military grade firearm, the FNC should go further without need of repair, but the only way to guarantee that is to not shoot it. I'd love to have an FNC, but went with the AC556 in the same price class for the part reason (which isn't fully resolved on the AC556) as well as that of the 22lr conversion. |
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FNC is a truly great select-fire carbine. It only falls by the wayside in comparison to the flexibility of the AR-15 platform, with its easy caliber changes and tons of accessories.
This lower desirability and smaller market, coupled with them being imports, has lead to the parts scarcity which is a concern if your gun's going to be a shooter and not a safe queen. In today's CNC world, it's not like you won't be able to get any part you need custom-made if you need it, just that it'll take longer and cost more. |
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The parts availability issue is a non-issue. Every piece of machinery when used enough eventually needs overhaul and repair. Spare parts are an issue and one will typically pay through the nose on this one with respect to other guns. Being a military grade firearm, the FNC should go further without need of repair, but the only way to guarantee that is to not shoot it. I'd love to have an FNC, but went with the AC556 in the same price class for the part reason (which isn't fully resolved on the AC556) as well as that of the 22lr conversion. I agree that parts will break with use. A major stigma with the FNC is that parts are not available at all, which is not the case. By going on to sturm I have found replacement parts for the gun, for a cost that was fair market value. The parts are available, you just have to put out some want to buy ads. |
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Great guns and much less susceptible to damage compared to an M16 if you have bad ammo. However, parts seem even less available now than when I got mine a couple years ago. But then again, little seems to break other than firing pins.
Honestly, I have shot mine much less than I thought I would. I doubt that would be different if I got an M16. .22LR kits don't exist but it seems many people have issues getting them to run in M16s. |
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Great guns and much less susceptible to damage compared to an M16 if you have bad ammo. However, parts seem even less available now than when I got mine a couple years ago. But then again, little seems to break other than firing pins. Honestly, I have shot mine much less than I thought I would. I doubt that would be different if I got an M16. .22LR kits don't exist but it seems many people have issues getting them to run in M16s. I am not sure I agree that an FNC is less prone to damage compared to an M16. If you have an out of battery detonation or squib/refire situation that blows up the gun, the sheet metal upper that comprises the FNC receiver is going to be toast the same as an M16 upper generally always is in these scenarios. Granted with a FNC sear gun its going to be difficult to damage the sear buried back behind the mag welll, which isnt any different than a M16 DIAS or RLL. The difference with an FNC if you blow the upper is it is the "receiver" and your FNC at that point is done and you will be in store for a $3 to $4K new semi host. An M16 blows up you may just be in store for a new $500 uppper, worst case maybe also new $100 lower for your sear. If you are comparing a registered receiver FNC to a registered receiver M16, my money is that the M16 lower better survies a kaboom event due to bad ammo than an FNC upper would. Overall, FNCs are great guns (I have two of them) but parts are not easy to come by. Parts do pop up from time to time but dont expect to easily be able to buy hammers, bolts or carriers at your whim like you can M16 parts. Hopefully one day somebody will start CNCing FNC parts here in this country and take care of the supply problem. Just my take anyway. |
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Should have stipulated less susceptible to permanent damage as its steel and easier to fix than aluminum. However, AK action with a greater margin of strength compared to the multi lug AR bolt should help contain issues with bad ammo.
How many blown up AKs do you hear about compared to AR-15s. The later is at least 3-4x. |
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Most recent data at mg price guide (last data November 2012) shows asking prices between 7600 and 8800, with an average about 8400, and trending up since the low prices last summer. Asking prices are currently $11k plus, with a recent quick sale on subguns for $9500, so prices have trended even further up from the last data at mg price guide.
I'm thinking of listing my FNC on gunbroker at $9k and see where the market takes it. |
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=330409240
As far as I can tell, prices on transferable MGs seem to be up across the board about 20% in the last two weeks. Maybe I should have bought one of those potential hosts. However, I am baffled, I thought it would be pretty clear that state limits on magazine sizes are going to be a pretty big detractor to this market in the next 10-20 years. For those who say criminalizing the transfer of a small metal box is lunacy, well the government has been putting people in jail for over 50 years for growing a certain plant in their basement. And the later can be much less scary than being on the wrong end of a gun with a large capacity magazine. I would love to acquire another transferrable, but at this point it would mostly be as an investment and I just don't see a long term future for them as a viable asset for transfer. It is no stretch of my imagination that a state like Texas in 2033 will make California 2013 look borderline conservative. If you were getting your first MG, I say get a M11/9, have fun and shoot the piss out of it. If long term value sucks because of stupid laws, well have fun with it. EOD, you can still get a M11/9 for $4-5k and I have seen people almost spend that much for a single boat repair. Also I have seen some proposed state bans exclude 22 rimfire, so maybe there will be a long term market as a rimfire MG. |
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The FNC is a fantastic gun in every way
as a first or only FA gun, avoid there are no parts around no parts any machine is going to need a spare part at some point. if it wasnt for the parts situation, an FA FNC would be a $20K gun If you have 8K to spend, buy yourself a vector uzi. |
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http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=155776
Sears for under $4k. I can put you in touch with local shop that has a very nice folder for $4k. $1k in conversion costs, shipping and 3rd burst. Only other thing that is needed is patience. If spare parts were readily available, it would be a $15-20k gun as the only available FN gun in 5.56mm. |
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Most recent data at mg price guide (last data November 2012) shows asking prices between 7600 and 8800, with an average about 8400, and trending up since the low prices last summer. Asking prices are currently $11k plus, with a recent quick sale on subguns for $9500, so prices have trended even further up from the last data at mg price guide. I'm thinking of listing my FNC on gunbroker at $9k and see where the market takes it. As a follow-up on this, I did end up listing my FNC on gunbroker, with a starting bid of $9500. It sat for a week with lots of lookers but no bidders. I relisted it last night for $9000 and it's got one bid on it at that price so far. |
| Best advice I ever got was wait and get a 16. I came real close to getting a fnc but after talking to all my friends, sots and finding out some great info from Tony K ( thanks again btw) I am very glad I went with the 16. Great guns just some goofy batfe snafu stuff about the uppers being registered on some , the whole scar sear crap and not very modular. Just my 2cents. It was good advice and I'm just passing it on....Don't settle. Get what you want |
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If I really did have my heart set on an FNC, I would just buy a spare rifle just in case, as a safeguard against breaking some critical part
that would take care of it completely, settle all problems with part supply that idea is kind of off-putting to some guys, especially ones who are used to the gigantic part supply of the ARs, but it would work fine. the whole issue of the upper being registered isn't any kind of issue at all. many guns are registered that way. there are plenty of guns that have a poor parts supply and the FNC is known for being a very robust design, it rarely breaks parts |
| I wouldnt buy any full auto that I couldnt get replacement barrels for. I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned yet. The one major component that wears out with every shot fired, is basically not available for repair/replacement. I had an FNC, and it was a great gun. I never had an issue with it. I have no idea how much it was shot before I had it, but I put at least 10K rounds through it(I I miss the $2.50 a box PMC). I sold it to a local guy and hes out at least 25K through without any problems, other than the barrel is shot out now. The gun still works for making noise and shooting dirt, but it wont hit a paper plate at 100yds. |
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I wouldnt buy any full auto that I couldnt get replacement barrels for. Ironically, the FNC barrel is one of two domestically sourced replacement parts for the FNC of which I am aware. Firing pins are the other. I don't know how good the barrels are though... Green Mountain FNC Barrel |
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I wouldnt buy any full auto that I couldnt get replacement barrels for. Ironically, the FNC barrel is one of two domestically sourced replacement parts for the FNC of which I am aware. Firing pins are the other. I don't know how good the barrels are though... Green Mountain FNC Barrel Thats a nice recent occurrence :) |
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I wouldnt buy any full auto that I couldnt get replacement barrels for. I'm surprised that hasn't been mentioned yet. The one major component that wears out with every shot fired, is basically not available for repair/replacement. I had an FNC, and it was a great gun. I never had an issue with it. I have no idea how much it was shot before I had it, but I put at least 10K rounds through it(I I miss the $2.50 a box PMC). I sold it to a local guy and hes out at least 25K through without any problems, other than the barrel is shot out now. The gun still works for making noise and shooting dirt, but it wont hit a paper plate at 100yds. May be the highest round count FNC in existence, at least in North America. Would be great to see a tear down with pictures. 35k rounds without breakage, still think the recoil spring might benefit from replacement. Last year was the first full calendar year I owned mine, had it out 3 times and it got shot 600 rounds. Still kick myself for not buying a RR M16 when the prices were good, but I was holding out for a Colt M16 that never materialized. However, even if I had gotten the M16 instead, I doubt my round count would have been much higher. Mine was near mint when I bought it, dealer claimed he ran a magazine for function, might have been the only rounds through it. Still I bought a spare barrel from green mountain, they have good feedback on uzitalk and there is a guy there who specializes in replacing them. However, at this rate, it may take me 30-40 years to wear out the original. If anything I might be behind schedule as I haven't had it out yet this year and its about to get AZ (Africa) hot... Figure the original being 1/12 twist helps with barrel life. |
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Everything for the FNC is high.
Just forget about finding spare parts. If you buy an FNC, plan on buying a spare one just in case. It's like buying a parts kit for your UZI. Only it costs 3500 and has a receiver Someday a bunch of parts kits will come in, it's only a matter of time. Then FNCs will sell for the same price as M16s. Thats exactly what happened with the Galil. No parts, and then plenty. Or, somebody will fire up a CNC machine and turn out some bolts and carriers. Look at it this way, there are about 1 FNC sear for every 5 M16s. That's a lot of 223 assault rifles to leave rotting on the vine for want of a $50 bolt. |
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there are about 1 FNC sear for every 5 M16s. He's spitballing the numbers we've seen posted here over the years, on the total number of sears S&H registered before the 86 ban, vs the roughly 20,000 M16s and conversion RRs on the registry. Try an archive search for the source material. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sourcethere are about 1 FNC sear for every 5 M16s. He's spitballing the numbers we've seen posted here over the years, on the total number of sears S&H registered before the 86 ban, vs the roughly 20,000 M16s and conversion RRs on the registry. Try an archive search for the source material. Wow only 20k m16s? Thanks circuits
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there are about 1 FNC sear for every 5 M16s. He's spitballing the numbers we've seen posted here over the years, on the total number of sears S&H registered before the 86 ban, vs the roughly 20,000 M16s and conversion RRs on the registry. Try an archive search for the source material. Wow only 20k m16s? Thanks circuits Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any clear numbers with NFA registry. I have seen FNC sears serial numbered up to 3500 and there are supposed to be more than that so guessing that the FNC number is 4000 and the m16 number is 20,000, that gives you roughly 1 to 5 ratio. so the point is that FNCs actually represent a fairly large percentage of the total number of 223 assault rifles in the registry, somewhere around 10 to 20 percent that makes me think that a part supply will open up someday one way or the other |
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FNC sears seem to have really dried up last year or two. I have seen a lot more potential hosts for sale though, just 4 locally in the last 45 days. And they aren't exactly common, only 6k imported.
Amazed there are only 20k M16s & RR in the registry. So 10 years prior to the ban when the $200 tax started to be become insignificant in the scope of things, I figure any diehard entering the NFA community would want to have an M16. Only 20k people bothered to get one. |
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FNC sears seem to have really dried up last year or two. I have seen a lot more potential hosts for sale though, just 4 locally in the last 45 days. And they aren't exactly common, only 6k imported. Amazed there are only 20k M16s & RR in the registry. So 10 years prior to the ban when the $200 tax started to be become insignificant in the scope of things, I figure any diehard entering the NFA community would want to have an M16. Only 20k people bothered to get one. Would many of us know about the NFA at all if it was not for the internet and current gun shows? I'm surprised there are even 20k of them on the registry. I am glad though. |
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I guess I'm surprised that there are as many as 20,000 M16/RR/DIAS/LL. I would've expected there to be fewer than 20,000 of 'em, when the total number of ALL transferable machine guns is around 120,000. I thought the total # was 180k? No one knows -- not even ATF -- because the NFA Registry is so screwed up. The low estimate is 120k, the high estimate is 180k, and the reality is probably somewhere in-between. However, many, many of the transferables are owned by major LE departments in Blue States which have firm city policies against selling or trading in MGs if there is any chance they will ever be owned by civilians. So while these are "in the pool", they will never be available to us. Then subtract the transferables owned by museums and the true pool of transferables is significantly below 100k. YMMV. 
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I would buy one today in the $7500-$8000 (Shipped form 3 to my dealer) range. But any more then that and I really do not know. I wont sell mine for $10k or $11. Too hard to find and buy clean stuff. Worked for years finding a clean MP40, why sell it after all that work? I'd rather have the weapon than the $$. I overpaid for all my mg's. Sellers would not budge a penny. But the market caught up and they are all bargains now. It is very hard to pick up any deals. Vast numbers of new buyers joined the class 3 crowd in the last year. If I get a very nice copy and it is somewhat overpriced, I still pick it up. They will be sold in short order if I don't buy. I stay away from the beat up weapons. No one is selling them for a bargain anyway. If you are low on money it is Mac all the way. Even they are climbing like crazy. My dealer says he is raising them to $5500 shortly. |
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FNC sears seem to have really dried up last year or two. I have seen a lot more potential hosts for sale though, just 4 locally in the last 45 days. And they aren't exactly common, only 6k imported. Amazed there are only 20k M16s & RR in the registry. So 10 years prior to the ban when the $200 tax started to be become insignificant in the scope of things, I figure any diehard entering the NFA community would want to have an M16. Only 20k people bothered to get one. Would many of us know about the NFA at all if it was not for the internet and current gun shows? I'm surprised there are even 20k of them on the registry. I am glad though. You need to hang out with more weirdos... I was in my teens and knew there was a process to buy machine guns legally, but I was into building plastic military kits like planes and tanks and a lot of the adults into that hobby were also WWII reenactors with Thompsons and MP40s. This was late 1980s. If LE still own a bunch of MGs, most of them are probably M16s. Don't worry, once budget issues become big enough, they will be sold. They will just stipulate they have to be sold out of state. Responding to another recent post, I have read multiple sources that 17k are M11/9s and then an almost equal number are all other MACs combined. My conversations with Lage are ballpark with those numbers. If so, the real number of transferrables can't be under 100k. From what I see for sale, it would seem a stretch to think that one third of all transferrables are macs. Now 1/5 of them? I could believe that putting the number around 150k in circulation, just not hoarded by PD. Also one more thing, I have met a couple shady NFA dealers. Add to the mix that your blue state / blue city politicians / LE can also be pretty shady. I bet half or more of the LE NFA that will supposedly never be sold, if they actually went to look for them, they would be long gone out the back door. |
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(snip) If LE still own a bunch of MGs, most of them are probably M16s. Don't worry, once budget issues become big enough, they will be sold. They will just stipulate they have to be sold out of state. (snip) Detroit is sitting on several hundred GM Hydramatic M16s they got for free, back when GM ended its M16 production contract in the '60s. How many times has Detroit gone through bankruptcy since then? Yet the M16s are sitting, most all unfired, in storage. The city would rather go hat-in-hand to the state and federal governments for a bailout, than to ever sell those M16s at their true market value as transferables (which would, of course, only be paid by civilians). And that's just Detroit. If you think otherwise .... well, I guess Your Mileage May Vary. 
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(snip) If LE still own a bunch of MGs, most of them are probably M16s. Don't worry, once budget issues become big enough, they will be sold. They will just stipulate they have to be sold out of state. (snip) Detroit is sitting on several hundred GM Hydramatic M16s they got for free, back when GM ended its M16 production contract in the '60s. How many times has Detroit gone through bankruptcy since then? Yet the M16s are sitting, most all unfired, in storage. The city would rather go hat-in-hand to the state and federal governments for a bailout, than to ever sell those M16s at their true market value as transferables (which would, of course, only be paid by civilians). And that's just Detroit. If you think otherwise .... well, I guess Your Mileage May Vary.
Wow. Some well connected C3 dealer REALLY needs to do a public service and get those guns out of there. |
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Detroit has never gone through a bankruptcy in court and the state is taking over so maybe those guns will move. Is there anything prohibiting one department from transferring them to a more NFA friendly department?
Also, have you physically seen those guns? Knowing Detroit they probably got sold to some hoodlums for $500 apiece and a crack rock. |
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Detroit has never gone through a bankruptcy in court and the state is taking over so maybe those guns will move. Is there anything prohibiting one department from transferring them to a more NFA friendly department? Also, have you physically seen those guns? Knowing Detroit they probably got sold to some hoodlums for $500 apiece and a crack rock. I haven't seen the guns myself, but an FFL/SOT whom I trust completely has seen them, and tried to get them. They are in such deep storage that it's be pretty difficult to get them out .... and if U.S. Property marked M16s started showing up at crime scenes anywhere in the country (and if they were in the hands of scumbags, they would have) .... well, the press would have an absolute field day. So I'm confident they are all still there, locked away. The FFL/SOT has offered huge $$$ for them and was told, flat-out, that they will never be sold for any amount of $$$. Instead, they will go to the chipper if it comes to that. This is city policy, whether written or unwritten I don't know. Hate to tell you, but the folks who make these decisions do not care about $$$ -- they are city officials, and if they need more money, they just raise taxes. What they do care about is votes -- and a news story about the city of Detroit selling machine guns to civilians anywhere in the country would cost them so many votes, at least in Detroit politics/demographics, that they would lose re-election. And that is what they care about. IMHO, you are making a mistake if you believe that elected officials anywhere are motivated by anything other than votes. YMMV.
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And one more thought:
In Colorado, Magpul told the state it would shut down if the new gun laws passed. State auditors estimated the impact at IIRC, $70 million a year in lost revenue. The law passed anyway. In Maryland, Beretta USA -- which had moved its main warehouse to Va. to protest an earlier law -- said it would shut down there completely, costing many jobs and more lost millions. The law passed anyway. In Connecticut, traditional home of the U.S. gun industry, manufacturers had the same message for state lawmakers: Colt even bussed their entire work force to the state Capitol to plead for their jobs. The law passed anyway. Elected officials are openly willing to destroy their state economies to worship at the altar of restricting the rights of law-abiding gun owners. $$$ has nothing to do with their decisions. |
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(snip) If LE still own a bunch of MGs, most of them are probably M16s. Don't worry, once budget issues become big enough, they will be sold. They will just stipulate they have to be sold out of state. (snip) Detroit is sitting on several hundred GM Hydramatic M16s they got for free, back when GM ended its M16 production contract in the '60s. How many times has Detroit gone through bankruptcy since then? Yet the M16s are sitting, most all unfired, in storage. The city would rather go hat-in-hand to the state and federal governments for a bailout, than to ever sell those M16s at their true market value as transferables (which would, of course, only be paid by civilians). And that's just Detroit. If you think otherwise .... well, I guess Your Mileage May Vary.
Wow. Some well connected C3 dealer REALLY needs to do a public service and get those guns out of there. I deal with the feds, state and city government professionally all the time. Public employees are concerned with only one thing - keep their job at all costs. They take NO risks EVER. There is no way that any big city is going to dump a quantity of MGs into the collector market. You can kiss those babies good bye. You might see some podunk police department sell a gun once in a while but a city like detroit is NEVER going to release "assault weapons" for private ownership. Those days are done and over. Just think how many thousands upon thousands of NFA guns are being held by local police departments. You almost never see them get sold off anymore. I know for a fact that my local police dept has a whole rack of thompsons. Think the local police chief is going to be selling them to an NFA dealer? Maybe destroy his career over it when it hits the newspapers? |
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They are not going to sell them for the benefit of the city, it will be for their own benefit. However, you need someone smart enough to pull it off which might be a rare commodity in Detroit government.
I'm surprised they don't sell them to another PD, like anyone in the media will ever figure out a Form 4 after several transfers. Besides, 90% of people think we are all buying machine guns at Cabelas. What city has the Thompsons? Anyway, I have learned never say never. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FN FNC? (Page 1 of 2)
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