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Posted: 1/16/2010 5:05:09 PM EDT
| Im am fairly new to reloading and have a lee progressive loader. the problem Im having is failure to fire on approx 25% of 9mm loads, I do have a primer strike, I replaced my firing pin and spring since it had 20k plus rounds through it and the pin was a little short but it has not fixed the issue. Im using winchester sm pistol primers, and have been checking to see that they are seated. Any suggestions |
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I have been tumbling with cobb material, and will wash when the brass is muddy, mostly using misc Win and Fed brass.
I've been checking that the primers are seated by making sure they are flush with the headstamp, is this correct? the rounds are not firing second time around. Im am using case lube and the forth die is supposed to put a very small crimp on, How would this effect firing? |
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I went back and looked at my last 45 FTF cartridges most of them are Federal with a few win and Blazer, I dont know if this is a issue federal is supposed to be great brass right?
What do I look for on the primers when looking for the anvil, I know what it does just not really what it looks like? As Im writing this I have thought that since this is a progressive loader I am not cleaning the primer pocket would this be an issue? I am not trying to reload for precision just need lead to throw for defensive style shooting thanks for the help |
| Sounds like you are doing everything ok. As Aero said, look at the primers them selves. They should have a yellow media "Anvil" that should look the same on each. Also, prolonged sunlight will destroy a primer. Where are you in SC roughly? I may be close enough to help. |
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I have been tumbling with cobb material, and will wash when the brass is muddy, mostly using misc Win and Fed brass. Brass is completely dry when you load it correct? I've been checking that the primers are seated by making sure they are flush with the headstamp, is this correct? Primers should be seated .002 below case head. the rounds are not firing second time around. Im am using case lube and the forth die is supposed to put a very small crimp on, How would this effect firing? If over crimped, the round can go too far into chamber and firing pin will never reach the primer. Back off your crimp die a little, and try again. Are you cleaning the lube off your cases after sizing? |
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I don't prime on my progressives because I have no control over or inspection capabilities before it's too late.
I always clean the primer pocket. I like the idea that no dirt interferes with the seating process. A lot of times extra tumbling will do the job. I also have no idea when I'm going to shoot that particular round. I have some ammo that's twenty+ years old. It seems to me that the dirt could cause contamination, especially over time. I use Lee's hand priming tool or RCBS's bench mounted press to prime my brass in advance. It can be stored in ammo cans or any other water tight container until needed. The primers must be below flush. .002" was mentioned earlier but as much as .006" is the norm. When my primer gets hit by the firing pin it is sitting flush in the bottom of the pocket, squarely seated against the metal case. No crud or carbon to diminsh the blow. I wear surgical gloves when reloading. I know most people are no longer concerned about contaminating modern primers. The gloves makes it impossible. It also keeps my sweating fingers off my brass and bullets so they don't get tarnished in the process. I have seen perfectly good reloads form fingerprint type corrosion or discloration. Nowadays my reloads look factory fresh. Even the old ones. I have monkeyed with lighter springs in handguns before, only to make them unreliable. Anything that diminishes the striking power of the hammer or pin has the potential to cause misfires. Have you tried or had your gunsmith try to lighten the trigger with spring kits? That could be the cause. How old are the springs now? Maybe they could use factory spec replacements. I also replaced a trigger before and got light primer strikes. The aftermarket trigger changed the geometry or introduced some more friction, whatever the case, it took a second strike a lot of the time to set the round off. Try your ammo in another gun for starters. Reseating the primers won't hurt. I've noticed primers will almost always go deeper if you seat them a second time (another reason I don't prime on a progressive). |
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Thanks for all the info, Im going to try a few things here and see if it helps. SCED1 I am in Travelers Rest just above Greenville SC email me at [email protected] if your close by
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What kind of gun are you using, OP?
On the face of it, I would say the primers aren't being fully seated. FWIW, I don't clean out primer pockets on 9mm (or any pistol case, really). And I haven't had any problems getting primers fully seated, now that I use an RCBS Hand Priming Tool. |
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I have been tumbling with cobb material, and will wash when the brass is muddy, mostly using misc Win and Fed brass. Brass is completely dry when you load it correct? I've been checking that the primers are seated by making sure they are flush with the headstamp, is this correct? Primers should be seated .002 below case head. the rounds are not firing second time around. Im am using case lube and the forth die is supposed to put a very small crimp on, How would this effect firing? If over crimped, the round can go too far into chamber and firing pin will never reach the primer. Back off your crimp die a little, and try again. Are you cleaning the lube off your cases after sizing? This....plus, if the bullet is seated too far out and coming in contact with the rifling, the round will not fully chamber and can cause a light strike as the round is ever so slightly out of battery.....My G21 did this for a while when I was loading lead bullets with a very tight Lonewolf barrel. OP, pull yer barrel and check to make sure yer rounds are chambering properly. |
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OP said by email he would try an work it out and get back to me if he still cannot work it out.
I have loaded pistol rounds for a very long time and not seen this problem. Like everyone say's, either bad primers (maybe inherited) or the pistol it's-self. There is a great shop within 30 miles of his location with fresh primers in stock so I think he will be OK for components. |
over crimping will cause a failure to fire?
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Correct me if I am wrong here but I believe that 45 and 9mm both seat on the top of the case. So if you crimp too much it basically shoves they round too far in the barrel thus not allowing the firing pin to strike the primer, or not with enough force. Or so I have read.
As a little side note I was having some FTF on my 223 rounds when I first got into loading. The way I lube my cases is a cookie sheet and Dillon lube. Toss the brass on the sheet spray down and roll. Well turns out I actually sprayed lube in some of the cases which screwed up my powder. When I pulled the bullet on the FTF rounds the powder came out in clumps and was sort of moist from the lanolin. So now I spray the lube first them add brass, and haven't had a prob since. |
| Well i dont know whats going on? primers are new winchesters, ive check my powder, running these reloads in a g17, 19 and CW all these guns run great with factory, I have backed off the crimp but had 3 FTF in the last 50 reloads that is better then my original 25% FTF |
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3 out of 50 is still not good. Don't get discouraged you will find the problem. When you say you backed off the crimp how much did you back off? My hornady reload book says for 9 and 45 there should be little to no crimp on the case, due to the casing mouth headspacing in the barrel. Its very unlikly that it is the primers.
How does the primer look on the ftf's? Do you have a bullet puller, or can you use vicegrips to pull the bullet to look to see if the primer went off, or how the powder looks. Just start using the process of elimination. |
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Have you checked to see if there is powder in the FTF rounds? If not, disassemble the round and see if there is powder, if the flash hole is open and if the primer fired or not. Have you done this yet? Report back you findings when you do or if you have. |
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Have you checked to see if there is powder in the FTF rounds? If not, disassemble the round and see if there is powder, if the flash hole is open and if the primer fired or not. Have you done this yet? Report back you findings when you do or if you have. If you could do this, I bet it would be informative. |
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Ive backed off the crimp half a turn so far, I did pull a couple of the FTF and the powder looked good(not clumpy) flash holes were clear and primer still looked good (from what I can tell??) Im headed to FT benning this weekend to pig hunt so It will be next week before I can work on this anymore
thanks |
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Did the primer have a dent in it from the firing pin strike? if yes then you could always take or leave out the powder and the bullet and manually chamber it and see if it will pop. Following the usual safety precautions of course. If the primer doesnt pop then decap it and make sure the primer pocket and the flash hole is clean and then reload. also you could use a marker and mark the cases of the ones that FTF and reload them with all fresh supplies and see if it will happen again with that case.
The crimp that I usually put on is very slight, if you look at the case in bright light you would be barely about to see the crimp. So far I have not had a FTF. How is the powder? is it old or new? does it have a rusty color to some of it or an odd smell?? If all these things are correct then the only other thing I can think of that MIGHT be the problem would be your gun. granted I see what you put a new pin and spring in it, if you still have the FTF after all the reloading things are checked out and nothing is wrong then the next thing to do would be have the gun checked out. These are about the only ideas I have. Could you please keep us informed as the progress of solving this puzzel? |
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Im still working on this FTF issue, I have pulled several bullets and have powder that looks good and the flash holes were clear. Can I skip the crimping process to see if it eliminates the issue? You can't skip it entirely, because your case mouths will still be a bit belled and you may have chambering issues. However, you can pretty much eliminate the crimp - just turn the die far enough down to take the bell out of the case mouth, but not actually press the mouth inward toward the bullet. Just straighten up the walls. There should be a definite step or shoulder at the top of the case mouth where it meets the bullet. |
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I have been tumbling with cobb material, and will wash when the brass is muddy, mostly using misc Win and Fed brass. I've been checking that the primers are seated by making sure they are flush with the headstamp, is this correct? the rounds are not firing second time around. Im am using case lube and the forth die is supposed to put a very small crimp on, How would this effect firing? Primers should be a few thousandth BELOW flush (at least). How are you priming cases? Priming on a press does not have as good a feel for seating the primers as a hand primer tool. |
| All of these guns run great with new ammo, and I have been running the FTF in a second gun to see if thats the issue with only one round firing, Im going to work on some more of these suggestions, may be I need to see if the primers are popping, maybe I have a bad batch-will keep you posted |
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