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Posted: 3/16/2012 8:05:04 PM EDT
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This was posted on the Primal Rights forum after the discussion came up about the safety of 50 BMG uppers. Dave and Greg came to an agreement and the evaluation and test was done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfWYzy0kZQY&feature=player_embedded#!
If you're thinking about an upper this is a good video to watch. |
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I am a Very Happy Ferret owner and I have been for around 5 years. At the Time I was looking to get into shooting the BMG, I looket at complete rifles and upper type rifles. I asked questions on here and several other forums including the FCSA website.
everything I found concerning the 50 bmg firearms was safety, reliability, cost and appearance. Cost was a factor in my decision, I complete rifle was out of my price range at the time, so I started looking at uppers. There were several that were available immediately, others there was a waiting list. of the ones that were available immediately, most looked like crap(my opinion) and then the safety features weren't there and there were a few OOB's that were publicisized about them as well, so they were out of the question mainly due to safety but build quality/appearance were also a contributing factor. That left the field down to 2 that I was seriously considering one was ALS and the other was obviously the Spider firearms/Ferret 50. I looked at the available pictures of both designs, listened to owners of both the uppers, looked at the statistics from the FCSA matches for which ones were represented most often and how well they actually shot. Then I finally contacted both manufacturers and asked them questions. Both answered my questions reasonably and Dave won my Money. I liked everything I heard, Saw and what Dave himself had to say about his firearm, and his Safety features vs the others. I own a Spider firearms/Ferret 50 36" Stainless SuperMatch upper with extended Handgaurd tube that is not vented as well as Daves Match trigger. If Asked what I recommend I always say buy a Ferret. 
Thanks Dave for Building a great firearm that is Obviously Very Safe. Jason |
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That person doing the review got his mouth over loading his arse. I suspect Dave told him to put up or shut up. So, the guy starts off doing a very in depth review about cosmetics. But did you notice that he got real picky about the weld job? And then when he was handling the black receiver he made a mistake about how the hammer can hit the firing pin when the bolt is open. Its been a bit, but if I remember correctly the hammer access is blocked by the tube coming from the back of the bolt. the way I think I remember Dave describing it. the tube open the port for the hammer once the bolt is nearly closed. This coupled with the cam that retracts the firing pin (ask shown by the kid).
Looks like someone shot off their mouth and had their rump handed to them. Best thing that could happen for Dave. Now everyone has seen that this rifle might be a little less than bling, but built like a tank. I have had mine now for 4 or 5 yrs and I have had no problem with it. Might of fact one of my rounds had some old powder in it and even though the primer was pulled out some cause it had flowed back into the primer hole some. this rifle took the higher pressure and keeps on ticking. BTW pitch the other 4 rounds. Opened the powder bottle and brown flumes come out. Pitched the last pound of that too. |
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So, if this guy gets his hands on a McBros rifle or MCM action is he going to do the same test where he's partially closing the bolt to see if it will fire "out of battery."
Jesus, let it go dude. The Ferret has, from what I can see, the best bolt and firing pin design of any of the uppers out there. I own an ALS 50 upper, without the recalled bolt mod, and seeing the Ferret video and the depth of what is done with the Ferret upper it will be my next upper if I choose to get another. Dave should have offered to let the guy test the thing such that if it blew up then Dave ate the cost but if the thing worked out then the video blogger dude would buy the thing outright. |
This is where the issue of the over all safety of 50 BMG uppers started http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4378 which led to this thread http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4514 and finally to the link above. If you feel like reading it, that way you'll understand how this whole test came about.
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OK from my experience 50bmg primers are not easily ignited which makes me wonder just how much of a hit they took at the levels where his primed cases did not fire. I would love to see this especially since many of us here reload 50 and tolerances between one or another can be quite different.
Still very, scarey IMHO. The odds of someone accidentally leaving the bolt in that position intentionally and firing is slim, the odds of someone who is setting the bolt getting ready to fire and accidentally discharges it is a whole other story. Its quite likely when this happens and surprises the shooter he may jerk and back off the bolt a bit before all depressurization and recoil has finished, Then what happens to the shooter, what happens to the rifle? No matter how you slice it the bolt doesn't need to be in fully lockup in order to fire. That is not safe, if it was safe then Spider Firearms would not have engineered the grove to allow the bolt to finish its 40% or so of travel as according to this video. |
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Quoted:
This is where the issue of the over all safety of 50 BMG uppers started http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4378 which led to this thread http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4514 and finally to the link above. If you feel like reading it, that way you'll understand how this whole test came about. Reading that thread and those linked was like a car crash. I couldn't stop reading but it was in horrid fascination. I had only vaguely heard of Primal Rights before this thread and I can't say I was impressed. I'm not going to defend Bohica Arms or Chris, I have a neutral opinion on the subject as a former BOHICA owner, but I really love my Ferret50 and Dave has done right by me the times I contacted him, including calling back within a day or so when I left messages. I'm a scientist and an empiricist. When Bohica had its KB, I primed a bunch of brass and tried to replicate the issue with mine. I posted my results here, including my methodology. Nothing in my test at the time gave me any reason to doubt. I also replicated the test when I got my Ferret50 (I didn't post my result here but did on other gun groups I'm on) and it too passed without issue. It's interesting to see how much of the drama associated with this topic is coming from such a small base. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
This is where the issue of the over all safety of 50 BMG uppers started http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4378 which led to this thread http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4514 and finally to the link above. If you feel like reading it, that way you'll understand how this whole test came about. Reading that thread and those linked was like a car crash. I couldn't stop reading but it was in horrid fascination. I had only vaguely heard of Primal Rights before this thread and I can't say I was impressed. I'm not going to defend Bohica Arms or Chris, I have a neutral opinion on the subject as a former BOHICA owner, but I really love my Ferret50 and Dave has done right by me the times I contacted him, including calling back within a day or so when I left messages. I'm a scientist and an empiricist. When Bohica had its KB, I primed a bunch of brass and tried to replicate the issue with mine. I posted my results here, including my methodology. Nothing in my test at the time gave me any reason to doubt. I also replicated the test when I got my Ferret50 (I didn't post my result here but did on other gun groups I'm on) and it too passed without issue. It's interesting to see how much of the drama associated with this topic is coming from such a small base. Yeah Orkan from PR (pretty sure that's the guy in the video) seems very quickly and very devoutly opinionated. I remember a time when he was telling people to basically "Get on board [with BOHICA uppers] or get out!", perfectly safe etc.. etc... Then him and Chris had a dispute and now every Bohica product is junk scrap metal blah blah... I've had some minor QC issues with my Mk3 but nothing dangerous. Without really getting into it, my opinion is that QC could've been quite a bit better, but CS from what I experienced was fine. I've also tested my upper and couldn't get one to go without considerable lug engagement. Only issues I have is weak extraction occasionally. I did a little bit of research and it turns out Chris is making uppers again, now under the name of "Valley Ordnance Works". From what I could find they don't have a website and are only operating locally in AZ. I read on one web-page that the name change was the result of a divorce, however, it does remind me of Black Thorne/Vulcan/Hesse. I suppose Chris never advertised as "Sniper rifles of the special forces", though. 
I sure would like to get a 30" barrel for my mk3.... I'm sure a Gunsmith and a barrel blank could get 'er done too, though. |
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From what I could find they don't have a website and are only operating locally in AZ. I read on one web-page that the name change was the result of a divorce, however, it does remind me of Black Thorne/Vulcan/Hesse. . wow.... I'm left pondering whether that is a good thing in comparison to the original pioneer of that tactic, Toad Bailey/Spechul Weapuns. |
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Ah, so PR is Orkan from back in the days of BOHICA.
If I had known that it was Orkan, I would have had a good laugh and moved on. OK LOL I'm gone from this thread.. Oh all of that testing of your BOHICA, did you by any chance weld your firing pin out? Do that with the Ferret and you would have had to do that with the barrel off and then try to open the bolt. You would not be able to do it unless you could break the weld. Bet you would have had no problem doing that with the BOHICA. And then when you slammed the next round home, KABOOM. But the bolt would not be able to cam the ferret open and you would know you had a major problem. But until you correct it, you would not been able to slam a new round home and NO KABOOM. So, betting you did not try this test, your testing was not complete.. |
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Well, I tested my MK-II today in the same fashion with a stock AR FCG, and the hammer does not hit the firing pin until the bolt is 90-95% in battery. I am going to make a video to complement Greg's along with FACTS.
Here's a look at my Mk-II in action; 
edited for political correctness.
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Quoted: I did a little bit of research and it turns out Chris is making uppers again, now under the name of "Valley Ordnance Works". From what I could find they don't have a website and are only operating locally in AZ. I read on one web-page that the name change was the result of a divorce, however, it does remind me of Black Thorne/Vulcan/Hesse.
I'd always held out on forming any opinion about BOHICA. The fact that the owner of BOHICA came to this forum and blatantly LIED to all of us about the supposed "ATF banning .50 BMG uppers" was all it took to turn me against them. That turned out to be such a crock of sh*t that I could NEVER have the confidence to trust buying from someone who'd do that... 
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| That statement may have in part been true. Many knew that Chris was working on a semi-auto magazine fed upper that was going to work on the standard AR-15 lower. I thought that it was a wonderful idea, but I wondered what the F Troop boys would think, especially at the economy price he was talking about. That very well may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. That and the fact that he had some personal stuff going on. As in most things on the web, there are a lot of cynics, and critics. That also wore deeply on him. He is a good friend, and I hated to see how people were so quick to crucify him. If they only had any idea what it takes to bring a product to market, maybe they would have been a bit more understanding. |
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