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Posted: 3/13/2017 11:52:02 AM EDT
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Hi all, I have been lurking around for a while reading as much as I can about the new suppressors that are out there now.
I originally built my 300 blackout sbr with the idea that I was going to get an SDN-6, but many new items have hit the market since then. My wife and I went to our local gun store this past weekend and got to hold the Saker, Omega and the Hybrid. We were surprised at the weight differences between the three and the weight of the Saker is definitely noticeable. I would like as quiet as possible supressor, but I would like to get it as light as possible The two I am leaning the most toward right now are the Surge and the Hybrid. Any input is greatly appreciated and thank you ahead of time. |
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I could not find the dB level of 300ACC on the Surge and the 762-SD or the barrel restrictions on the Hybrid.
Manufacturer. Model Weight Length. 300ACC dB's Caliber/Barrel restrictions Price Rugged Surge 7.62 21.5oz/17.5oz. 9"/7.5" No 9mm $920.00 AAC 762-SDN-6 19.85oz 7.66". 126dB No 9mm, 10" 5.56 $632.00 Rugged Razor 7.62 15.3oz 6.4" 129.7dB No 9mm $807.00 Silencerco. Saker 7.62 ASR 23.4oz 8.5"-10". 119.0dB No 9mm $972.00 Silencerco. Omega 7.62 14.2oz 7" 119.5dB No 9mm, 10" 5.56 $1,130.00 Silencerco. Hybrid 17.3oz 7.8" 123.7dB Yes 9mm $999.00 AAC 762-SD 23oz 9" No 9mm $522.00 Dead Air Sandman S 18.5oz 6.8" 129dB No 9mm $1,049.00 Dead Air Sandman L 21.8oz 8.9" 124dB No 9mm $1,199.00 Dead Air Sandman Ti 16.8oz 8.2" 124dB No 9mm $849.00 |
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Having bought 80% of the cans I will ever own in my life unless HPA passes, I can tell you can choice is based on two things, how many cans do you plan on owning and what other calibers do you see yourself suppressing. In the olden days, pre-2016 this wasn't that big a concern because cans weren't nearly as modular as the new ones coming out today. Either regarding physical bore size, changing between long / short sizes or the capability to launch magnums. With this new generation of cans out, I could easily eliminate 1/3 or more of the cans I own today.
So lightweight as possible, you want a thread on can or one capable of thread on like an Omega. Hybrid is great for both the minimalist who wants few cans or a guy that likes a lot of variety. Worse case you own a crap load of cans and the Hybrid can always find a home on a big boomer magnum or large bore. Omega can really do it all in rifle calibers .300 to 5.56 and with the rebate available, makes it more attractive. On my last rifle can purchase, I could have bought an Omega but I already had multiple 5.56 cans and an SDN-6, I decided to forsake the modularity of an Omega in trade for the lesser cost and simplicity of a Sandman Ti. If I had to do it all over again, I would just buy a small 5.56 can and the Omega and instead of 4 cans I would own 2. |
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Quoted:
Having bought 80% of the cans I will ever own in my life unless HPA passes, I can tell you can choice is based on two things, how many cans do you plan on owning and what other calibers do you see yourself suppressing. In the olden days, pre-2016 this wasn't that big a concern because cans weren't nearly as modular as the new ones coming out today. Either regarding physical bore size, changing between long / short sizes or the capability to launch magnums. With this new generation of cans out, I could easily eliminate 1/3 or more of the cans I own today. So lightweight as possible, you want a thread on can or one capable of thread on like an Omega. Hybrid is great for both the minimalist who wants few cans or a guy that likes a lot of variety. Worse case you own a crap load of cans and the Hybrid can always find a home on a big boomer magnum or large bore. Omega can really do it all in rifle calibers .300 to 5.56 and with the rebate available, makes it more attractive. On my last rifle can purchase, I could have bought an Omega but I already had multiple 5.56 cans and an SDN-6, I decided to forsake the modularity of an Omega in trade for the lesser cost and simplicity of a Sandman Ti. If I had to do it all over again, I would just buy a small 5.56 can and the Omega and instead of 4 cans I would own 2. Weight is not my main concern, but I would like it to be as light as possible. Is the Omega direct thread only? I would prefer a QD system. |
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All good info found above but I went another direction when building a 300 BO pistol for HD.
What I found while shooting sub's loaded with Acc 1680 in a gaser that they run very dirty so I added self servicing to the list. Note this is a dedicated can for BO only. Gemtech GMT-300BLK Sound reduction at 36-39 db Super and sub only, full auto rated Length 6.7", dia 1.5" weight 14oz Titanium G-Core Direct thread 5/8-24 THSF has them in stock $725. |
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What would the benefit be of the Recce 7 be over the Alpha/Maximus? About $100, Alpha is user serviceable if that appeals to you (you probably already know that) Personally I went with a Sandman L, If I could do it over again I probably would have gone with the Recce 7 |
| Hybrid you can use on a multitude of weapons and calibers from .22 cal to 338 lp. handguns also. Direct thread or quick detach. I bought one. Later you can always get a dedicated can. Cans are like crack one you get one you'll want more anyways. At least with the hybrid your not limited to one weapon up front |
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OP,
IMO, you eliminated almost every suppressor you listed when you noted that weight is a consideration (and it should be!) You are left with the Hybrid and the Omega. The Omega offers a lot of configuration options, from a 6" 11.3oz DT suppressor to a 7.5" braked QD suppressor from 5.56 to 300 magnum. I think the Hybrid is too much of a good thing configuration wise. And if I wanted to suppress something larger than .308" I would be looking for a specialty can rather than a too-much-Jack-of-all-trades. Might also take a look at the YHM ULT. Light, good barrel length ratings, best QD system available. JPK |
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Hybrid you can use on a multitude of weapons and calibers from .22 cal to 338 lp. handguns also. Direct thread or quick detach. I bought one. Later you can always get a dedicated can. Cans are like crack one you get one you'll want more anyways. At least with the hybrid your not limited to one weapon up front They are like crack so the sooner you acknowledge this, you start to eliminate jack-of-all-trades cans like the Hybrid. With any .30, you're not at all limited to one weapon |
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I bought an Omega for my first center fire can, hoping to have the stamp by late spring. I bought it because it had great reviews and it is very modular. It's kind of an expensive can though, for how I plan to use it. I have $1245 invested the can, transfer fee, tax stamp, and a titanium .223 end cap and 1/2x28 direct thread. My goal was shortest and lightest, but that's a lot of money considering I could have bought a Griffin Spartan 3 for $650 (with stamp) and it would have been about the same size and weight. But the Omega gave me more options for the future.
Today I started the paperwork for a Hybrid, which kind of made the flexibility of the Omega pointless. I bought it because my dealer made me a GREAT deal on it, I wanted a 2nd center fire can (crack!), I wanted to be able to be able to suppress a large bore hunting rifle, and it will let me play around with the suppressed pistol idea. It's slightly longer and heavier than the Omega but it was considerably cheaper, it meters the same on 5.56 (with .223 cap), and I like knowing that it will work for any rifle I am ever likely to buy. Just food for thought from another rookie. |
| The Rugged surge is a great can with a great mount, it's very quiet with 300 blk subs in long configuration and also short configuration. It's not as light as other cans out there but you have the choice of going from 9" to 7.5". What I like most is the dual taper mount, after shooting with the can you can see how good the muzzle device seals when the can is off. Carbon build up does not even get close to the rear taper. |
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OP, IMO, you eliminated almost every suppressor you listed when you noted that weight is a consideration (and it should be!) You are left with the Hybrid and the Omega. The Omega offers a lot of configuration options, from a 6" 11.3oz DT suppressor to a 7.5" braked QD suppressor from 5.56 to 300 magnum. I think the Hybrid is too much of a good thing configuration wise. And if I wanted to suppress something larger than .308" I would be looking for a specialty can rather than a too-much-Jack-of-all-trades. Might also take a look at the YHM ULT. Light, good barrel length ratings, best QD system available. JPK YHM definitely has the best QD mount at its price point, and their cans are plenty tough. |
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They are like crack so the sooner you acknowledge this, you start to eliminate jack-of-all-trades cans like the Hybrid. With any .30, you're not at all limited to one weapon Quoted:
Quoted:
Hybrid you can use on a multitude of weapons and calibers from .22 cal to 338 lp. handguns also. Direct thread or quick detach. I bought one. Later you can always get a dedicated can. Cans are like crack one you get one you'll want more anyways. At least with the hybrid your not limited to one weapon up front They are like crack so the sooner you acknowledge this, you start to eliminate jack-of-all-trades cans like the Hybrid. With any .30, you're not at all limited to one weapon Talking about first suppressor as title suggest. You can use the hybrid on more weapons than you can a .30 cal suppressor. Can you use a .30 suppressor on a 45acp or 338 lpm or 45 70 I never said the .30 cal can was bad in the first place. Heck I did not even mention a .30 can But as a first do all suppressor until you can get whatever else you want the hybrid is absolute a great suppressor. You can set it up to use specifically on different caliber weapons by changing out parts. It works great. Is it the absolute quietest no. But that does not make it garbage. That's if you want to really get anything else to be honest. Op might not need to or want to. He might have better self control. I liked it because It could be used on every weapon I own .22 cal, 9mm, 45 acp, 10mm, 3030, 308, 300 wm, 5.56 and 45-70 or anything up to 338 lapua mag that I might buy in the future. As a very first suppressor it's great. It was for me. I also bought these Hybrid Griffin Recce 5 Griifin Alpha Griffin SPR Griffin RSTA Warlock ll Yankee Hill Titanium Phantom dt 308 ACC Ti-Rant 45 Griffin Armament Resistance 9 I think that's it I hope, like op said first suppressor not his last. Supressors are like a drug I want another .22 cal suppressor |
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Quoted:
The Rugged surge is a great can with a great mount, it's very quiet with 300 blk subs in long configuration and also short configuration. It's not as light as other cans out there but you have the choice of going from 9" to 7.5". What I like most is the dual taper mount, after shooting with the can you can see how good the muzzle device seals when the can is off. Carbon build up does not even get close to the rear taper. I like the Surge, and it sounds good in both long and short configurations. But here is how I see the Surge vs. an Omega... Surge long configuration is ~9" and provides about the same suppression as the Omega in the OEM ~7.5" configuration and the Surge weighs a ton more. In the short configuration, still sounds great but it's considerably louder and heavier than the Omega in is ~7.5" OEM configuration. Louder than the Omega in its 7" flat end cap configuration as well, and a lot heavier. Can't get down to the 6" Omega DT configuration, and would be louder and a shit ton heavier if it could. JPK |
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Rugged Razor
SilencerCo Omega with a Dead Air Keymount Adapter I agree weight should be a high priority, but I don't necessarily think it should be the absolute top priority on a .30 caliber silencer. Your options open up a little with some flexibility on the weight. |
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Hybrid is hard to beat as a do it all can. Then you can buy more specialized cans as you see what works for you and what your goals are. Plus the rebate if that's still going on... Yep. People always talk about how it's a jack of all trades, master of none blah, blah, blah BS. I wonder if those same people have actually heard the damn thing in person. It sounds good on everything I've shot it on and thats comparing it to many other cans back to back on many different platforms. If I was just getting into the game and wanted one can to get started, the hybrid would be it. You can find it for roughly $750, get the $200 promo, and use it on damn near anything. |
| Wow, thank you all for the great recommendations. I will definitely have to look at the YHM cans. Does anyone know the barrel restrictions on the Hybrid and what the Surge meters at for 300 Blackout in its different lengths? I have seen the thread of the modularity of the Omega, but explain what that means for me as a complete newb to the suppressor world. Also what are the benefits of a user serviceable supressor along with the negatives. I was planning on building a short 5.56 upper, but it looks like a lot of the really light cans are limited to 10-10.5 barrels. I don't know where i was going with that as far as question but I think that may hold me back on pulling the trigger on them. Thanks again guys, please keep the info coming. |
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SiCo Omega modularity:
Comes with ASR QD module for suppressor plus 5/8" 24 DT module, also at least one 5/8" 24 ASR brake. SiCo used to supply one other muzzle device on registratin, your choice Brake or flash hider, 1/2" 28 or 5/8" 24. If they don't now then you can use the $200 credit for muzzle devices. Available from SiCo in steel, via aftermarket in Ti, are 1/2" 28 DT module and 5.56/223 and 30 cal flat end cap. SiCo offers muzzle devices in several thread pitches as well. The brake at the end of the Omega, as it comes from the factory, actually works to tame muzzle rise, but is a bigger help with 6.8 and up. So configurations can run from an 11.3oz, 6" DT suppressor that adds about 5.5" to your barrel to a 14.1oz, ~7.5" QD suppressor with a brake and it can be configured QD or DT for several different thread pitches. Minimum barrel length for 5.56 is 10". Personally, I find a 10.5" 5.56 with a Ti DT module and flat end cap equipped Omega a fantastic combo. About 1.5" shorter than a 16" carbine with an A2 and about the same weight and balance. JPK |
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SiCo Omega modularity: Comes with ASR QD module for suppressor plus 5/8" 24 DT module, also at least one 5/8" 24 ASR brake. SiCo used to supply one other muzzle device on registratin, your choice Brake or flash hider, 1/2" 28 or 5/8" 24. If they don't now then you can use the $200 credit for muzzle devices. Available from SiCo in steel, via aftermarket in Ti, are 1/2" 28 DT module and 5.56/223 and 30 cal flat end cap. SiCo offers muzzle devices in several thread pitches as well. The brake at the end of the Omega, as it comes from the factory, actually works to tame muzzle rise, but is a bigger help with 6.8 and up. So configurations can run from an 11.3oz, 6" DT suppressor that adds about 5.5" to your barrel to a 14.1oz, ~7.5" QD suppressor with a brake and it can be configured QD or DT for several different thread pitches. Minimum barrel length for 5.56 is 10". Personally, I find a 10.5" 5.56 with a Ti DT module and flat end cap equipped Omega a fantastic combo. About 1.5" shorter than a 16" carbine with an A2 and about the same weight and balance. JPK Can confirm the Omega comes new in box with: anchor brake end cap, 5/8x24 direct thread module, ASR QD module, and 5/8x24 ASR muzzle brake When you enter the serial of an Omega for registration on the SiCo website you receive another muzzle device of your choice. You have the option of muzzle brake or flash hider as well as any of their thread size options--and you still receive the $200 rebate code as well. I just started my wait a few weeks ago, but I plan on using the ASR QD mount and I bought a flat end cap using my rebate code. Total length of the suppressor in that configuration should be around 6.8" and if my math is right on my 10.5" it'll be a hair longer than my pinned 14.5" |
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Fwiw, when you run out of the rebate $'s, in the thread "OMega modularness" or something like that, you can ask Big Waylon for the contact info for a machinist who can provide you with titanium DT modules and flat end caps, which reduce weight. And the Ti parts cost less than the SiCo parts too!
I have a Ti DT modul, a 5.56/223 timflat end cap and a .308" Timflat end cap. Very nice worksmanship and finish on the parts. You can see photos of other guys parts in the thread. JPK |
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check out the cost of mounts too.
I ended up with a griffin sportsmen since I could double dip and use my form 1 can w/ a SDTA griffin adapter. I've got taper mounts now on 4 uppers to use the two cans. now I'm sort of locked in to griffin cans and mounts, not a bad thing but consider it if youre looking to use on multiple rifles. |
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What's the weight difference between the two mounts? If someone has a KeyMo adapter to weigh, I'll weigh an ASR module. In my opinion, for a couple hundred bucks plus the cost of two muzzle devices to replace the ones that come with the Omega, you gotta be frigin' nuts. The ASR system works just fine if you pay attention to what you are doing when you mount your Omega and don't swap it to another rifle when it's hot. JPK |
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I can't find length or weight specs, but the KeyMo adapter is clearly longer than the ASR module. If someone has a KeyMo adapter to weigh, I'll weigh an ASR module. In my opinion, for a couple hundred bucks plus the cost of two muzzle devices to replace the ones that come with the Omega, you gotta be frigin' nuts. The ASR system works just fine if you pay attention to what you are doing when you mount your Omega and don't swap it to another rifle when it's hot. JPK As someone who was nervous about the ASR mount from things I've read and until that point had only used SF socom mounts. The ASR is good to go and I would not get the dead air mount unless you already have the DA mounts/DA cans. I now have 2 ASR cans and they have been as solid as my SF stuff. |
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Yup, As someone who was nervous about the ASR mount from things I've read and until that point had only used SF socom mounts. The ASR is good to go and I would not get the dead air mount unless you already have the DA mounts/DA cans. I now have 2 ASR cans and they have been as solid as my SF stuff. |
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I can't find length or weight specs, but the KeyMo adapter is clearly longer than the ASR module. If someone has a KeyMo adapter to weigh, I'll weigh an ASR module. In my opinion, for a couple hundred bucks plus the cost of two muzzle devices to replace the ones that come with the Omega, you gotta be frigin' nuts. The ASR system works just fine if you pay attention to what you are doing when you mount your Omega and don't swap it to another rifle when it's hot. JPK |
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Why wouldn't I want to swap it while it's hot? Think of it this way: The suppressor is hot so the can's mount is expanded. The muzzle device on the rifle you are swapping to is cold, so not expanded. As you shoot the second rifle the muzzle device heats up locking the can and MD. You stop shooting and as the suppressor cools it "de-expands" locking the can and MD. This happens with every QD system I am aware of from every manufacturer, some more than others. If you let the suppressor cool before swapping you should have no problems. Some guys use high temp lubes on the MD taper and threads to help prevent sticking. I don't and have never had a can I couldn't get off by hand easy enough, but if I swap I let the suppressor cool to the point that it is very comfortable to hold. ETA: Waiting for a suppressor to cool before swapping is one reason guys end up with more than one suppressor. I don't do mag dumps, but after a couple mags of ammo shooting steel at a spirited pace I recall my Omegas taking 10-15 mins to cool til I was comfortable swapping one to a cold rifle. I have tried "preheating" a MD by shooting a cold rifle unsuppressed. Doesn't seem to work well, and once you've been shooting suppressed it is hard to want to shoot unsuppressed. That's enough of a reason to have at least a 22 suppressor as well, so you can shoot while waiting! JPK |
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I have both the SIG SRD 762Ti and the Omega.
The SIG SRD 762Ti QD is SIGnificantly more quiet than the Omega for 556 and 300 BLK. I have not tested both with 308 yet. The SIG is longer by .7 to 1.2 inches (depending upon mount and endcap choice) and fatter but within an ounce of weight. The rifle balance is the same with either. The Omega comes with a thread adaptor the SIG does not. I prefer the SIG mounting system to the Omega ASR system. YMMV Mark |
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