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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:59:47 PM EDT
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I have been loading for 9mm for about two years now. Up to this point it has been all 124gr plated projectiles and bullseye and powerpistol. I have recently transitioned to plated147's. I am using extreme147's, mixed brass, cci 500 primers. Lee dies and a Hornady single stage press.
I always load 50 at a shot one tray at a time. Using a Uniflow in throw charges for the lot, do a visual check for powder and seat bullets and crimp. The load I am having a problem with is 147gr plated, 4.3gr Power Pistol, cci 500, mixed brass, oal 1.13". Today I had two squibs. I think the only problem could be no powder but in over three thousand rounds I have never had this issue. On both squibs the bullet barely made it out of the case. Luckily I recognized the click and pop I and kept from blowing up to guns. Is there anything about my recipe that would could cause this other than no powder? I just ask because this was 2 out of 200 that I shot today and I have had a pretty good quality control track score so far. |
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I've had two squibs in my reloading career (39 years), and both were related to light loads of slower burning powders with a low load density.
In one case the bullet was about 3" inch down a 5" barrel and in the other case it was sticking out the end of a 3" barrel. In one case some of the unburnt and the partially burnt powder was evident in the chamber area of the semi-auto pistol and in the other case there was unburnt and partially burnt powder in the cylinder and forcing cone, and in both cases the majority of the powder was in a semi fused clump just behind the bullet Now, I've experimented with premier only loads to see how far the bullet would travel down the bore and in all case the bullet just barely cleared the case and entered the rifling. ------ My thoughts are that if the cases were charged in your squibs, you'd have gotten bit more distance down the bore, and you'd have seen the partially burnt powder. The questions you have to ask yourself is what is happening to cause you to a) fail to charge the case, b) fail to note the uncharged case(s) in the loading block, or c) (alternatively) cause the powder to fall out of a case before you seat a bullet on top of it. |
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One case I managed to grab the other fell into the pile of brass. It is uniformly coated black on the inside more sooty than the "normal" spent brass from the rounds that worked. Also the bases of the bullets were black that easily wiped off.
ETA: the casing showed no expansion good neck tension(wouldn't hold a bullet in the mouth). Also the bullets were just into the lands enough to etch a 1/8" groove into them. |
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Quoted:
Did the gun actually cycle? I ask because you said you prevented the gun from blowing up after just hearing pop. No. It didn't cycle either time. I said that because normal function is failure drill and go back to shooting. If I am shooting reloads I make a conscious effort to stop it any part of the firing process is unusual to inspect. |
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If the gun didn't cycle the unburnt power should have been very evident when you cleared the action. I don't think you could have missed it.
I think there was no power in the casing. Plus the sooty look you describe makes me think of how my primer propelled plastic bullet cases look after firing. Motor |
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Good you have that mental safety reflex built in. Squibs can happen with factory loads too.
I use a reading light on an arm to aid with the inspection step after charging cases in the block. I really slow things down and double check during that step. I've accidentally loaded bullet only and discovered it during the reloading process of 300blk and pulled down the previous loads in that batch to check them all.... PITA but better than ramming a bullet out of the barrel. |
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Nothing wrong with your process OP, just you have now learned that all it takes is a split second of not paying attention and you might have problems. When loading in batches on a single stage attention to detail is important.
Knock on wood, the only squib I've had so far in 20k rounds was with 45acp and a wayyy undercharged case. Bullet landed about 15ft down range. Had a small pop and a puff of smoke. Was loaded on either a Lock N Load AP or 650xl. Only thing I can think of was the powder bridged and didn't drop. Its pretty hard to over or under charge with those machines. |
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Not sure what happened to your loads. I drop powder into all cases, then visually inspect the entire block to ensure all are charged.
In thousands and thousands of rounds, I've have three squibs. All with the same very light load of powder under a wadcutter in .38 Special. In each case the primer popped, the bullet lodge about half way down a 3" barrel and there was evident unburned powder in and around the case. I don't have a good explanation, other than something like a failure to ignite or something like partial burning. The powder was there - it just didn't burn. I now shoot heavier loads. |
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No way, bullet will just start into the rifling and stop. Quoted:
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I may be wrong, but I wouldn't think that a primer only round would cycle the pistol......would it? No way, bullet will just start into the rifling and stop. That's been my experience. In a semi auto a primer only load probably won't get the bullet deep enough into the bore to allow the following round to come into battery. In a revolver,the bullet will just begin to enter the rifling and won't clear the cylinder, locking the revolver up. Either way it tends to prevent any subsequent damage that might happen by shooting the next round in the obstructed bore. ---- The bigger risk is a squib load from a charge that doesn't ignite as it can push the bullet far enough down the bore to allow another round to be fired behind it. That can happen with some harder to ignite powders (usually slower burning powders) when used in light loads in cases with comparatively large capacity with a resulting low load density. The . 38 Special and .357 magnum fall in that category as the cases are fairly voluminous for the loads and pressures. It can also happen if there is some tumbling media stuck in the flash hole or lying in the bottom of the case with the powder loaded on top, although a complete failure to ignite is more common with the same result as a primer only load, but with powder scattered around. ----- When speed matters and you're considering remedial action, the trick is to learn to differentiate between the "click" of a hammer or striker falling on a dud primer (totally ok), the "snap" of a primer only load (not ok but it probably won't let the next round come into battery) and the "pop" of a squib load, which is where you can blow something up if you don't stop and see what just happened. If in doubt, just stop and check it out thoroughly. |
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One of the reasons I went to a progressive press is the difference in the QA process during loading.
If you're loading on a single stage press with a loading block, things can still happen between the time the round is inspected in the block and then processed with a bullet seated on top of the powder. It seems counter intuitive, but I think progressive reloading is safer. On a progressive press, you are visually inspecting the powder level in the case, which is held captive on the shell plate just before you put a bullet on it and seat it. Consequently, provided you have the discipline to inspect each case for the proper level of powder before you seat the bullet, it's pretty much impossible to screw it up. |
| If you pick up brass off wet grass, I think you can get a chunk of grass stuck in the case by the flash hole that tumbling doesn't remove. I think this could cause a squib. It's good idea to make sure the flash hole is clear on every case. I know I've found grass stuck in cases. |
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Quoted:
That's been my experience. In a semi auto a primer only load probably won't get the bullet deep enough into the bore to allow the following round to come into battery. In a revolver,the bullet will just begin to enter the rifling and won't clear the cylinder, locking the revolver up. Either way it tends to prevent any subsequent damage that might happen by shooting the next round in the obstructed bore. ---- The bigger risk is a squib load from a charge that doesn't ignite as it can push the bullet far enough down the bore to allow another round to be fired behind it. That can happen with some harder to ignite powders (usually slower burning powders) when used in light loads in cases with comparatively large capacity with a resulting low load density. The . 38 Special and .357 magnum fall in that category as the cases are fairly voluminous for the loads and pressures. It can also happen if there is some tumbling media stuck in the flash hole or lying in the bottom of the case with the powder loaded on top, although a complete failure to ignite is more common with the same result as a primer only load, but with powder scattered around. ----- When speed matters and you're considering remedial action, the trick is to learn to differentiate between the "click" of a hammer or striker falling on a dud primer (totally ok), the "snap" of a primer only load (not ok but it probably won't let the next round come into battery) and the "pop" of a squib load, which is where you can blow something up if you don't stop and see what just happened. If in doubt, just stop and check it out thoroughly. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I may be wrong, but I wouldn't think that a primer only round would cycle the pistol......would it? No way, bullet will just start into the rifling and stop. That's been my experience. In a semi auto a primer only load probably won't get the bullet deep enough into the bore to allow the following round to come into battery. In a revolver,the bullet will just begin to enter the rifling and won't clear the cylinder, locking the revolver up. Either way it tends to prevent any subsequent damage that might happen by shooting the next round in the obstructed bore. ---- The bigger risk is a squib load from a charge that doesn't ignite as it can push the bullet far enough down the bore to allow another round to be fired behind it. That can happen with some harder to ignite powders (usually slower burning powders) when used in light loads in cases with comparatively large capacity with a resulting low load density. The . 38 Special and .357 magnum fall in that category as the cases are fairly voluminous for the loads and pressures. It can also happen if there is some tumbling media stuck in the flash hole or lying in the bottom of the case with the powder loaded on top, although a complete failure to ignite is more common with the same result as a primer only load, but with powder scattered around. ----- When speed matters and you're considering remedial action, the trick is to learn to differentiate between the "click" of a hammer or striker falling on a dud primer (totally ok), the "snap" of a primer only load (not ok but it probably won't let the next round come into battery) and the "pop" of a squib load, which is where you can blow something up if you don't stop and see what just happened. If in doubt, just stop and check it out thoroughly. I was curious is about this when I had the malfunctions. Before I pounded out the projectiles is did try and chamber a round and their were both so close to the chamber that I could not chamber a round in either case. |
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