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Posted: 7/24/2010 8:57:30 PM EDT
Hey guys. Obviously I'm new to reloading but not to the AR. Ive been collecting all the reloading equipment needed for a few months and finally just got all the equipment. I processed 50 cartridges, 20 of which I had to throw out from crushed shoulders from too much roll crimping. That gave me the perfect number of good cartridges for a full magazine so I proceeded to attempt a function check in the back yard, but only 1 out of 5 actually chambered and had to use the mortar technique to clear the rifle. The other 4 chambered up until about 1cm then stopped, and also were very difficult to chamber. I think the cambering issue is that I wasn't raising the shell all the way into the sizing die, and when I finally found out I had already re-sized 26 rounds. That one shell that did chamber must have been the one I raised all the way. Another problem I came upon was when seating bullets they were still loose and I was able to turn them in the shell even though I *think* it was applying a roll crimp.
Any of you experts want to chime in and give me some pointers? |
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Sounds like your problem is that you are not properly sizing the cases. Unscrew the sizing die. Read the manual that came with the die. Then reinstall the sizing die. The problems you mentioned are from the sizing stage. Make sure to use lube, but not too much. You can cause "hydraulic dents" from using too much lube.
jonblack |
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Best I can suggest at this point, given what you have posted, is carefully read all of the instructions for properly setting the dies. Resize cases until they all fit your chamber with out undue forceable chambering or extraction. If reloading for a .223 magazine fed rifle, seat bullet to just under inside magazine length. Simply put, do one process at a time & check that the process does what it is suppose toward a finished round. READ & understand the die setting instructions. Think about one step at a time & how the die
interacts with the component/cartridge/bullet/primer. Get your self a reloading manual & read all of the info. in it about what the equipment does to the cartridge case & all the other components. Seems you got a bit ahead of yourself. But you will get there. SAFETY is your main goal. The rest will come along with understanding. Ask questions as you have done here. But take it slow & understand each process. They must all contribute to the end goal. |
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Get a case gage
if it fits into the gage and drops out easily you will not need to pound it out of your barrel very simple to use just drop the round in and feel - Dillon stock number 13254 also. unless you are a case trimming perfectionist, use a taper crimp and never a roll crimp |
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The crimp is not used to control the neck tension of a bullet in the case neck; a crimp is not needed for .223 Remington cartridges.
I expect you are trying to seat and crimp in the same step. Well, it's possible, and setting up the die is a pain in the neck. I recommend you try seating in one step, then adjusting the die for the crimp and applying the crimp in a separate step. Your standard die will apply a roll crimp. The cases must be trimmed to the identical length in order for the roll crimp to be uniform. A taper crimp is more forgiving. Try loading 40 or 50 rounds without a crimp at all. You probably lost part of your neck tension due to the roll crimp you applied; it caused the neck to bulge slightly. Slightly is all that is required. Others have described what you need to do to fix your chambering problem, maybe, and normally I would tell you to look at the case headspace, too. But in this case your crimp may be the culprit as it is bulging the neck slightly. Slightly is all that is required! So, if your die is already down on the shell holder, I think you should try assembling a load without cranking the die down farther, and modify your seating first. Load two unprimed, uncharged dummies to try. One other sizing detail that snags almost every new reloader is lack of lube inside the case neck. Just a tiny bit is needed. When the expander ball is withdrawn from an unlubed case neck, the shoulder is pulled out slightly, which effectively undoes the sizing operation that pushed the shoulder back. So - - Apply a little lube in the case neck, - Set the sizer die against the shell holder, - (prime and charge), - Seat the bullet, and then - Add the bullet crimp, or leave it off as it is optional. If you still have chambering problems, then set the sizer down a little more. An adjustable case gage will allow you to measure brass fired in your rifle so the sizer die can be set to yield 0.002 inches or so cartridge head space. This is about perfect for AR type rifles, or if you choose to use a looser chambering, up to 0.008 inches is acceptable. All of the fixed drop in gages I have tried produce 0.008 inches. |
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Quoted: Hey guys. Obviously I'm new to reloading but not to the AR. Ive been collecting all the reloading equipment needed for a few months and finally just got all the equipment. I processed 50 cartridges, 20 of which I had to throw out from crushed shoulders from too much roll crimping. That gave me the perfect number of good cartridges for a full magazine so I proceeded to attempt a function check in the back yard, but only 1 out of 5 actually chambered and had to use the mortar technique to clear the rifle. The other 4 chambered up until about 1cm then stopped, and also were very difficult to chamber. I think the cambering issue is that I wasn't raising the shell all the way into the sizing die, and when I finally found out I had already re-sized 26 rounds. That one shell that did chamber must have been the one I raised all the way. Another problem I came upon was when seating bullets they were still loose and I was able to turn them in the shell even though I *think* it was applying a roll crimp.Any of you experts want to chime in and give me some pointers? One of the posters in this thread said to get a Dillon case gauge. Do it. That gauge will save you much grief. For your first batch of .223, you probably don't need a crimp. This is a hotly debated topic around here. Since you are a beginner, get your ammo to run good. Worry about crimp later. FWIW, I only put a crimp on blasting ammo. And a very light crimp at that. All my other .223 ammo doesn't get a crimp. Your first batch can be reworked. Get the case gauge. Check your ammo. Set aside the ammo that doesn't gauge properly. Get a press mounted collet bullet puller. I'm partial to the RCBS puller. You need to get the puller and a .223 collet. I don't recommend an inertial bullet pullet puller for .223. Inertial bullet pullers don't work well with light bullets. Pull the bullets. If you set the collet die properly, there will be slight mark on the bullet. Don't worry about it. Save the bullet. You'll reload it later. Same with powder. You can reuse the powder too. Relube the cases and resize them. This time make sure the sizing die is set up properly. Wear safety glasses. Be mindful you have live primers in that brass. Check the resized brass with the case gauge. Wipe the lube off the cases. Now that your brass is resized properly, reload the brass. The bullets you pulled earlier may have a light marking from being pulled. Don't worry about it. The marking on the bullets won't affect accuracy enough for you to notice. I reloaded .223 for a living for a time. Fixing rejected ammo was a part of my job. Once in a while you'll mess up some ammo. It's just a part of reloading. |
Thank you for the pointers guys. Funny thing is over the past few months I have watched just about every video, article, and a manual on reloading. I remember thinking to myself while resizing that since i had done so much research that this would be a breeze. Boy was I wrong. Now all I need is a bullet puller. 
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Quoted:
Hey guys. Obviously I'm new to reloading but not to the AR. Ive been collecting all the reloading equipment needed for a few months and finally just got all the equipment. I processed 50 cartridges, 20 of which I had to throw out from crushed shoulders from too much roll crimping. That gave me the perfect number of good cartridges for a full magazine so I proceeded to attempt a function check in the back yard, but only 1 out of 5 actually chambered and had to use the mortar technique to clear the rifle. The other 4 chambered up until about 1cm then stopped, and also were very difficult to chamber. I think the cambering issue is that I wasn't raising the shell all the way into the sizing die, and when I finally found out I had already re-sized 26 rounds. That one shell that did chamber must have been the one I raised all the way. Another problem I came upon was when seating bullets they were still loose and I was able to turn them in the shell even though I *think* it was applying a roll crimp.
Any of you experts want to chime in and give me some pointers? Nowhere did you mention "trim". All cases, new and refurbished, after sizing must be trimmed or checked for trim to under 1.760. What is your trim length? This needs to be consistent, particularly if you are going to set up for roll crimping. I am one of the pro-crimpers. Because of my unrelenting pressure on the industry, all Military and TAP AR rounds are crimped  . It is done for a reason.
[ETA]: For bottleneck cases, the end of the neck should not contact the chamber when bolt is locked. 
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Start by reading the 4 part Tutorial on loading the 223. Link.
Get a Dillon case gauge, and be sure case gauges before going further in the reloading process. I am told some other brands are out of speck on the case rim. Dillon gauge in the pics. 
The bad pic, what your cases would look like with improper sizing. End of case above end of gauge. 
The good pic, what you want. Case below end of gauge but above the .002 cut. 
If you have dinged up rims, insert case backwards to swage out minor burrs, then retry inserted correctly. Don't forget to lightly lube case necks (inside). It's possible to pull the shoulder back out with the sizing ball. Lube prevents this. |
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Quoted: Thank you for the pointers guys. Funny thing is over the past few months I have watched just about every video, article, and a manual on reloading. I remember thinking to myself while resizing that since i had done so much research that this would be a breeze. Boy was I wrong. Now all I need is a bullet puller. If you have any questions or problems. Feel free to IM or email me. I'd be happy to help you out. ZM |
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I agree with the above. Get a Dillon case gauge - this will give you something concrete to judge problems with and eliminate a lot of guess work and trial. Make sure your case length is not over maximum. Adjust the die all the way down+ so you get a bit of a cam-over on a single-stage press, like was mentioned in posts above.
I would try it without the crimp first. You should be able to get by without a crimp in the AR15. I definitely would not roll crimp as that can cause more problems than it would ever possibly solve. AeroE pretty much gave you the info on how this can bulge case necks and, if taken too far, can actually lessen case neck/bullet tension. I have had bullet set-back problems in the past. However that was when I tried using non-crimped bolt action .223 reloading methods in a Daewoo DR-200 .223 with a heavy AK-type bolt carrier. This would really slam the round in the chamber and often give bullet set-back. You really don't experience this violent type of chambering in an AR15. I went to using a Lee Factory Crimp die, in a separate reloading step, to stop this - but eventually came to the conclusion that my expander ball in the FL die was a bit oversize and not giving the proper neck tension, thus contributing to the problem. So if all else fails in the bullet tension area, look into this as well. Because factory ammo can be used in all type of rifles, including .223/5.56 chambered AK types, the crimp is good insurance against set-back. If you don't specifically have problems, I would not crimp, or just use a light Lee FCD crimp only. |
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Quoted:
Hey guys. Obviously I'm new to reloading but not to the AR. Ive been collecting all the reloading equipment needed for a few months and finally just got all the equipment. I processed 50 cartridges, 20 of which I had to throw out from crushed shoulders from too much roll crimping. That gave me the perfect number of good cartridges for a full magazine so I proceeded to attempt a function check in the back yard, but only 1 out of 5 actually chambered and had to use the mortar technique to clear the rifle. The other 4 chambered up until about 1cm then stopped, and also were very difficult to chamber. I think the cambering issue is that I wasn't raising the shell all the way into the sizing die, and when I finally found out I had already re-sized 26 rounds. That one shell that did chamber must have been the one I raised all the way. Another problem I came upon was when seating bullets they were still loose and I was able to turn them in the shell even though I *think* it was applying a roll crimp.
Any of you experts want to chime in and give me some pointers? first make sure your cases are properly trimmed. size like addressed above. then back off on your seat/crimp die, the die should do nothing but align the bullet. adjust bullet depth with the seating stem. you do not need to crimp for .223. i think your problem is with the crimp/seat die not your sizing. |
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