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Posted: 7/31/2017 8:07:31 PM EDT
| I have some RMR 158gr LSWC I ordered to load up some 38 special, but would like to load some full power 357 loads if they will work and won't lead up my pistol. |
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chiming in cause I would like more on this as well...
from my little research, I had some HSM lead 158gr and they were rated for no more than 1250 FPS and I couldn't find a recipe that was near that with the powder I have. Will research some more and see about another powder |
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Thanks for the replies. Not really wanting to powder coat them so I'll load them as 38 special loads. As dryflash3 said, fit is important and as the last post stated cleaning out a little lead fouling is really not so bad. If they do lead foul don't shoot them until you have so much fouling that your barrel bore looks like a smooth bore. 
Motor |
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Do you know the hardness of them? If they are 16 to 18 BHN or harder you should be able to load them to at least 80% of maximum just as they are. As dryflash3 said, fit is important and as the last post stated cleaning out a little lead fouling is really not so bad. If they do lead foul don't shoot them until you have so much fouling that your barrel bore looks like a smooth bore.
Motor Quoted:
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Thanks for the replies. Not really wanting to powder coat them so I'll load them as 38 special loads. As dryflash3 said, fit is important and as the last post stated cleaning out a little lead fouling is really not so bad. If they do lead foul don't shoot them until you have so much fouling that your barrel bore looks like a smooth bore.
Motor Only 357 powder I have is 296 so it's pretty much full or nothing with that powder. Gun is a 4in GP100. |
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like I said, load them up
if your barrel leads up, get a copper kitchen scrubber - brand name " chore boy" wrap it around an old bore brush and push it through the bore a few times quick and easy got this idea from Bill Wilson's book ( WILSON COMBAT) Attached File |
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like I said, load them up if your barrel leads up, get a copper kitchen scrubber - brand name " chore boy" wrap it around an old bore brush and push it through the bore a few times quick and easy got this idea from Bill Wilson's book ( WILSON COMBAT) https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG-4497-268592.JPG Works well to remove lead. |
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like I said, load them up if your barrel leads up, get a copper kitchen scrubber - brand name " chore boy" wrap it around an old bore brush and push it through the bore a few times quick and easy got this idea from Bill Wilson's book ( WILSON COMBAT) https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG-4497-268592.JPG |
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just make sure they are pure copper
....some are copper coated steel....too harsh for you barrel Attached File |
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just make sure they are pure copper ....some are copper coated steel....too harsh for you barrel https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG-4507-268861.JPG Sticks- do not use. No stick - good to go. |
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Why mess with it? (not meant critically or rhetorically but an honest question)
Bare lead is going to leave major lead deposits in your barrel. IIRC< it was around 1,000 - 1,100 fps where leading start to get pretty significant. It also leads up the cylinder face and bottom of the top strap. I gave up on it and started using jacketed. If you want full power 357 loads, buy a jacketed bullet. Powder coated? Gas Checked? Perhaps, but you have to buy the stuff and then do it. I'd rather just buy and shoot jacketed. |
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Been a long time since I shot factory .357 or .44 magnum ammo. Back then the lead semi wadcutters they used for magnum loads had a gas check on the bottom. If I reload lead bullets without gas checks I down load them to no where near "magnum" velocities. |
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I'd suggest you buy another kind of powder. H-110/W-296 are not very flexible. Lately I've been using Blue Dot for upper end loads and have been very pleased with both the velocity and the accuracy, but there are a slew of powders that offer greater flexibility.
At least try the bullets. If your cylinder throats are the correct size, you're likely to have little if any leading. I cast and load a 160 gr. plain base SWC out of plain ol' wheelweights (Bhn 12 +/-) and have run them 1200+ fps with little to no leading depending on the revolver. The quickest, easiest lead remover I've ever found is any jacketed bullet. Yup...just a couple of jacketed bullets fired after shooting lead bullets will safely and easily remove leading. |
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Appreciate all the insight. I do not plan on shooting hundreds of these, just a couple handfuls since I had some left over after loading the rest for 38 special. |
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Only if diameter and hardness are not appropriate for velocity or the barrel is not well finished. My experience says above a certain speed*, lead bullets are not the best thing to use. You can move that threshold by changing the alloy but a jacketed bullet is best above that limit. * My earlier estimate of 1,000 - 1,100 fps for that threshold is from a 4" Colt Python revolver using commercial, off-the-shelf bullets in .357 diameter. |
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They are from RMR and they use to say their lead bullets were 18 BHN, but it's not in the description anymore. Only 357 powder I have is 296 so it's pretty much full or nothing with that powder. Gun is a 4in GP100. Fact is they are too hard to shoot light. When I try to shoot them with light loads they don't "upset" enough to fill the bore and I get lead fouling. Motor |
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bear with me.... First you slug your chamber throats and your barrel. As long as the throats are larger than the groove diameter you should be good to start on the next steps. Size (or find commercial bullets) to chamber throat diameter or slightly (.001-.002) over that so long as a loaded cartridge will still chamber easily. Use 1:20 tin:lead with NO antimony alloy (or specify it from commercial casters). Finally, only use single-based powder....the only ones available that I'm aware of for full power loads is VihtaVouri N110 and IMR4227, but 4227 is too bulky to gen enough in a 357 case for factory spec loads.. With all this, gaschecks are unnecessary. If all you have is 296/110 (same powder, different package), then gaschecks will be a necessary evil.
Using all of the above, I'm getting 1250-1300 fps from a 4" Colt and a 4" Ruger Match Champion, which is the same or better than current factory loads. The ORIGINAL 357 loads would do over 1400 from a 6" barrel using (I believe) 296/H110 and are well over 40,000 lbs CUP. 357 loads were reduced after the S&W M19 came out...too hard on the mechanism in that small light gun. Oh, the reason factories used gascheck bullets was because of the powder used. Ball powder burns so hot that the base of a plain lead (and they were soft lead...nothing like current "hard" lead bullets) would melt, making for excess leading. Most "hard" commercial bullets are significantly undersized and will lead like crazy since they get gas cutting along the sides of the bullet...which is too hard to "slug up" in the chamber throat. I use .360 bullets in .359 and .360 chambers with .356 and .357 bores and get very little leading. Hope this isn't too technical, but lead bullets in revolvers are a mix of science and magic. |
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This mostly smears out and polishes the lead into the barrel even worse. It doesn't really matter as the OP has only a "handful" he is thinking of shooting at full power. Everyone has to learn their own lessons. If it were me, I'd only shoot jacketed at full power. |
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My experience was that it removes a lot of the heaviest fouling leaving just the thinnest film which is more easily removed using normal, non-aggressive methods than would otherwise be needed to remove extensive leading in the bore. YMMV. |
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I don't know what level of jacketed loads you guys are using to "clean" lead fouling but my first experience with this was by mistake and it was definitely not something I care to repeat.
I had fired 12 test rounds swedged bullets. Apparently the load was a little too warm and they lead fouled the bore. I followed this with a full power .357 magnum 158gr JHP. The lead build up in the bore caused pressure to rise dramatically. The recoil was far greater than normal. I would never suggest to anyone doing lead bullet load development to do this. I can see if you are using an established load that you know does not accumulate lead fouling it shouldn't be a problem but true lead fouling acts just like a barrel obstruction and can definitely cause an over pressure event. My friend who is a gun smith has cleaned 44 magnum pistols that a pencil would not fit through because of lead fouling. Imagine what would happen if you fired this pistol with a full house jacketed load. Motor |
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I don't know what level of jacketed loads you guys are using to "clean" lead fouling but my first experience with this was by mistake and it was definitely not something I care to repeat. I had fired 12 test rounds swedged bullets. Apparently the load was a little too warm and they lead fouled the bore. I followed this with a full power .357 magnum 158gr JHP. The lead build up in the bore caused pressure to rise dramatically. The recoil was far greater than normal. I would never suggest to anyone doing lead bullet load development to do this. I can see if you are using an established load that you know does not accumulate lead fouling it shouldn't be a problem but true lead fouling acts just like a barrel obstruction and can definitely cause an over pressure event. My friend who is a gun smith has cleaned 44 magnum pistols that a pencil would not fit through because of lead fouling. Imagine what would happen if you fired this pistol with a full house jacketed load. Motor When I was a kid, my dad kept a S&W Model 66 laying around the house. One day I found in his reloading stuff an old box of factory W-W ammunition loaded with a 158 swaged SWC and decided I get rid of it so he'd have some brass to load.  It leaded the barrel horribly. Being 13 or 14 years old at the time, I knew nothing about leading or lead removal, so the lead was "removed" the next time he or I fired it with a jacketed bullet. The revolver was fine.
If you've leaded the barrel of your firearm to the point that the rifling is no longer visible, it's probably best to not shoot any load through it, lead or jacketed, without first manually removing at least some of the leading. If you were shooting swaged lead bullets in .357 loads, undoubtedly the leading was bad when you fired the jacketed load. Using 2 or 3 jacketed rounds to remove leading has been SOP for me for 30-some years with no harm/no foul. |
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I don't know what level of jacketed loads you guys are using to "clean" lead fouling but my first experience with this was by mistake and it was definitely not something I care to repeat. I had fired 12 test rounds swedged bullets. Apparently the load was a little too warm and they lead fouled the bore. I followed this with a full power .357 magnum 158gr JHP. The lead build up in the bore caused pressure to rise dramatically. The recoil was far greater than normal. I would never suggest to anyone doing lead bullet load development to do this. I can see if you are using an established load that you know does not accumulate lead fouling it shouldn't be a problem but true lead fouling acts just like a barrel obstruction and can definitely cause an over pressure event. My friend who is a gun smith has cleaned 44 magnum pistols that a pencil would not fit through because of lead fouling. Imagine what would happen if you fired this pistol with a full house jacketed load. Motor No, I am not referring to that level of leading. That seems dangerous to even shoot cast bullets much less jacketed. It does point out the problem with high power loads and lead bullets, albeit an extreme version of it. This forum amazes me a the breadth of things reported here. That is why I find it important to always set the context and background in these threads. People don't naturally do that but it is important. Knowing the full context is as important as knowing the outcome. Without the one, the relevance of the other cannot be ascertained. |
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The swedged bullets I mentioned were not hot loads just a little too hot for those bullets.
The point I was trying to make is how quickly (12 rounds) lead can accumulate to an amount that definitely made a difference in pressure. Telling someone new to loading cast bullets that they can simply shoot a jacketed bullet to clean out lead fouling is in my opinion a recipe for disaster. You should at least visually check the bore first. Motor |
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The swedged bullets I mentioned were not hot loads just a little too hot for those bullets. The point I was trying to make is how quickly (12 rounds) lead can accumulate to an amount that definitely made a difference in pressure. Telling someone new to loading cast bullets that they can simply shoot a jacketed bullet to clean out lead fouling is in my opinion a recipe for disaster. You should at least visually check the bore first. Motor My basic context is the shooter knows what they are doing; that they won't do anything stupid. That is not always the case but it is where I start. |
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The swedged bullets I mentioned were not hot loads just a little too hot for those bullets. The point I was trying to make is how quickly (12 rounds) lead can accumulate to an amount that definitely made a difference in pressure. Telling someone new to loading cast bullets that they can simply shoot a jacketed bullet to clean out lead fouling is in my opinion a recipe for disaster. You should at least visually check the bore first. Motor Sorry you had a frightening experience shooting jacketed after lead, that's never even come close to happening me, and nor evidently others here who have used the method in question. To each his own. |
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