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Posted: 6/17/2016 7:37:59 AM EDT
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Any one have any info on a cause / fix for said problem ?
Considering a purchase off another forum , seller says; " I have is a CMP special grade, which is basically a parts gun with a new walnut stock and barrel. Mine unfortunately can't seem to make it through a clip without leave spent brass in the chamber and shoving a live round into the back of it. I suspect the extractor is out of spec, I was thinking of sending it out to have it looked at" |
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Sometimes it is hard to diagnose a problem from afar.
But with the Garand it is still easy to find quality parts. In many cases, you can find new old stock parts. With that rifle, I would start by getting a bolt rebuild kit for $50 and I'd rebuild the bolt. And I'd also get a new oprod spring and quality grease. (Garands need to be properly greased) I'd check the chamber to make sure that it was not damaged in any way. Sometimes a pitted chamber can cause poor extraction. That's where I'd start. And depending on symptoms I'd replace parts until the problem goes away. I have a few extra bolts and if I had that rifle, I'd replace the bolt and see if it would feed and extract dummy ammo. If so, then I'd know that the previous bolt likely had an extractor problem. ( Don't fire the gun with a replacement bolt unless you check headspace first with headspace guages) |
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What Fluffy said.
Assuming it is indeed a Special, it came from CMP properly set up, in-spec, and functioning. My primary concern would be that some well-meaning but inept owner tried to "improve" something they didn't understand and thereby turned a working rifle into a non-working one. At a minimum, bring a bore mirror, a light, an M10 tool and a cleaning rod section with you. Carefully inspect the chamber for dings, gouges, and burrs. If that looks good, use the M10 and rod section to remove the extractor and see if the spring is broken. If all looks OK, I'd buy it (assuming the price is fair). An extractor / spring / plunger are cheap. |
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More trouble shooting:
Look for gas leakage around the front sight/gas cylinder for signs of leakage. Inspect the gas cylinder lock screw for a stuck or partially open poppet valve. This valve is intended to vent gas when a grenade launcher is used. If the spring is weak or there's some grit stuck under the valve it may leak gas and cause extraction or other problems. Buy a M3-A1 Combination Tool. This is the tool that has the chamber brush. Also, pick up a couple of extra brushes online or at a gun show. You can buy the M3-A1 online from places like Fulton Armory and other parts and surplus sites. The M3-A1 should be considered as a must-have tool for the M1 Rifle since it can be used to do just about all operations on the M1. Use the chamber brush to thoroughly scrub the chamber. Note: Do not wrap a patch around the chamber brush, that ruins it. Once the chamber is scrubbed inspect the chamber with a bore mirror for pitting, rings or bulges, rust or other defects. Replace the operating rod spring with a USGI spec spring. DO NOT use any extra power springs. The M1 recoil spring is not just a recoil spring, it powers the entire action and the rifle was engineered to work with a GI spec spring. Extra power or non-spec springs very often cause problems. Buy a new spring from Fulton Armory or Orion 8. These are high quality springs made to USGI specs. These are the springs used by most all M1 rifle gunsmiths. Disassemble the rifle and do the "45 degree angle test". With the rifle completely disassembled and with just the bolt and op rod in place, tilt the rifle up and down at a 45 degree angle. The bolt should open and close easily on it's own. Then inspect the rifle for signs of the op rod rubbing on areas it shouldn't on the wood or on parts like the stock ferrule. Any rubbing or excess friction can cause feed and extraction problems. Disassemble the bolt and give it a thorough cleaning. If you have the M3-A1 Combination tool or the M10 cleaning rod handle you can very easily disassemble the bolt while it's in the rifle. This is in fact the preferred way to do it. Read a USGI field manual for how to use the tools. While you have the bolt apart inspect the extractor for wear or damage, and the spring and plunger for wear or damage. Since these cost so little, just replace the extractor, extractor spring, and plunger. Inspect the ejector and it's spring. Replace if it seems weak, and inspect and clean the ejector hole in the bolt. Inspect the hole for rust or impacted fouling or old grease. |
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Why would he "send it out" to have it looked at? Tell him to "send it back" to the CMP. They will fix their screw ups, and they are pretty fast about it. Since it is a special, I am willing to bet it has modern production extractor and it probably just has a bad one.
With that said, since the problem is intermittent, I would look more towards the ammo. Especially if they are reloads. |
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I would not hesitate to buy the rifle if you can get it at a good price.If he wants full $$ you may as well order direct from CMP
As far as the issues it could be a number of things none of which I would think be very serious , if cheap enough I would take a chance |
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Quoted:
Any one have any info on a cause / fix for said problem ? Considering a purchase off another forum , seller says; " I have is a CMP special grade, which is basically a parts gun with a new walnut stock and barrel. Mine unfortunately can't seem to make it through a clip without leave spent brass in the chamber and shoving a live round into the back of it. I suspect the extractor is out of spec, I was thinking of sending it out to have it looked at" Why buy a M1 Garand with known problems unless they're giving it away? There are too many M1's that run fine to mess with one that does not. Let him fix it before buying it. |
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Thanks for all the info. He says he wants 1200 for it after he gets it fixed, with 140 rds. of hxp ball. What would a fair price be to offer for it " as is " ? Including the ammo, he's asking full price + for a new, working CMP Special, which is not what he's selling. He's selling a pig in a poke. Granted, the cost to fix is probably minimal, but it's still a gamble. Even if it were a 100% reliable Special, that's still priced high. I'd pay no more than $750 as-is with the ammo, i.e., about Service Grade price. For the $1200 he's asking, I recently picked up one each CMP Service Grade M1 rifle and M1 carbine, plus two Yugo M57 Tokarevs and about 500 rounds of ammo. |
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I'd not touch this rifle at that price and even $900 sounds high for a rifle that had issues.
Ripped rim failure to extract is a timing and chamber condition. Ya sure it's leaving the case in the chamber and not stuffing it back in as in partial recoil? Same case every time? These questions are more for lurkers not you since this isn't your rifle. -- Chuck |
| I bought a service grade special (basically collector grade H&R action/metal and a new CMP stock) several years ago and had the same problem. Replaced the recoil spring with a new one from Orion, and viola, no more casings stuck in the chamber with torn rims. YMMV |
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Quoted: I bought a service grade special (basically collector grade H&R action/metal and a new CMP stock) several years ago and had the same problem. Replaced the recoil spring with a new one from Orion, and viola, no more casings stuck in the chamber with torn rims. YMMV Gummed up bolt would be another possibility. |
| Step 1 since you got from the cmp call them ! They are awesome ! Talk to them and one of there guys will walk you threw some trouble shooting and or have send back the rifle for repair. I broke my cmp special firing pin 6 months after getting it . One call had a new one sent to me free! Last year at the cmp range for d/0-day match my rear sight came loose they rebuilt it . For free. Lots of parts on these guns are new old stock refinished. Some parts can be overv 70 years old. |
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Quoted:
What Fluffy said. Assuming it is indeed a Special, it came from CMP properly set up, in-spec, and functioning. My primary concern would be that some well-meaning but inept owner tried to "improve" something they didn't understand and thereby turned a working rifle into a non-working one. At a minimum, bring a bore mirror, a light, an M10 tool and a cleaning rod section with you. Carefully inspect the chamber for dings, gouges, and burrs. If that looks good, use the M10 and rod section to remove the extractor and see if the spring is broken. If all looks OK, I'd buy it (assuming the price is fair). An extractor / spring / plunger are cheap. My friend recieved two CMP Garands neither of which functioned so, I wouldn't rely on CMP volunteers getting it right 100% of the time. I would first check the chamber to make sure it was properly chambered (no grooves etc) then check tension on the extractor, if properly tensioned, then it might be out of spec or the bolt itself may be out of spec. Like was mentioned above if the gun is not recoiling enough to eject the csse thenbthat is likely a gas problem or piston and op rod problem. |
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My friend recieved two CMP Garands neither of which functioned so, I wouldn't rely on CMP volunteers getting it right 100% of the time. I would first check the chamber to make sure it was properly chambered (no grooves etc) then check tension on the extractor, if properly tensioned, then it night be out if spec or the bolt itself may be out of spec. Quoted:
Quoted:
What Fluffy said. Assuming it is indeed a Special, it came from CMP properly set up, in-spec, and functioning. My primary concern would be that some well-meaning but inept owner tried to "improve" something they didn't understand and thereby turned a working rifle into a non-working one. At a minimum, bring a bore mirror, a light, an M10 tool and a cleaning rod section with you. Carefully inspect the chamber for dings, gouges, and burrs. If that looks good, use the M10 and rod section to remove the extractor and see if the spring is broken. If all looks OK, I'd buy it (assuming the price is fair). An extractor / spring / plunger are cheap. My friend recieved two CMP Garands neither of which functioned so, I wouldn't rely on CMP volunteers getting it right 100% of the time. I would first check the chamber to make sure it was properly chambered (no grooves etc) then check tension on the extractor, if properly tensioned, then it night be out if spec or the bolt itself may be out of spec. CMP Specials are specially built rifles by armorers, using new production or older parts that have been inspected and refinished. Volunteers have nothing to do with them. Matter of fact, volunteers have nothing to do with anything when it comes to building a rifle. At most, they would uncrate and maybe break down some rifles. But most volunteers say they never even see the rifles. They are doing other menial tasks such as sweeping floors or breaking down boxes for trash or recycling. |
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Quoted:
CMP Specials are specially built rifles by armorers, using new production or older parts that have been inspected and refinished. Volunteers have nothing to do with them. Matter of fact, volunteers have nothing to do with anything when it comes to building a rifle. At most, they would uncrate and maybe break down some rifles. But most volunteers say they never even see the rifles. They are doing other menial tasks such as sweeping floors or breaking down boxes for trash or recycling. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What Fluffy said. Assuming it is indeed a Special, it came from CMP properly set up, in-spec, and functioning. My primary concern would be that some well-meaning but inept owner tried to "improve" something they didn't understand and thereby turned a working rifle into a non-working one. At a minimum, bring a bore mirror, a light, an M10 tool and a cleaning rod section with you. Carefully inspect the chamber for dings, gouges, and burrs. If that looks good, use the M10 and rod section to remove the extractor and see if the spring is broken. If all looks OK, I'd buy it (assuming the price is fair). An extractor / spring / plunger are cheap. My friend recieved two CMP Garands neither of which functioned so, I wouldn't rely on CMP volunteers getting it right 100% of the time. I would first check the chamber to make sure it was properly chambered (no grooves etc) then check tension on the extractor, if properly tensioned, then it night be out if spec or the bolt itself may be out of spec. CMP Specials are specially built rifles by armorers, using new production or older parts that have been inspected and refinished. Volunteers have nothing to do with them. Matter of fact, volunteers have nothing to do with anything when it comes to building a rifle. At most, they would uncrate and maybe break down some rifles. But most volunteers say they never even see the rifles. They are doing other menial tasks such as sweeping floors or breaking down boxes for trash or recycling. Not the volunteers who were armorers with the rifle teams. They build. |
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Quoted:
Not the volunteers who were armorers with the rifle teams. They build. Quoted:
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What Fluffy said. Assuming it is indeed a Special, it came from CMP properly set up, in-spec, and functioning. My primary concern would be that some well-meaning but inept owner tried to "improve" something they didn't understand and thereby turned a working rifle into a non-working one. At a minimum, bring a bore mirror, a light, an M10 tool and a cleaning rod section with you. Carefully inspect the chamber for dings, gouges, and burrs. If that looks good, use the M10 and rod section to remove the extractor and see if the spring is broken. If all looks OK, I'd buy it (assuming the price is fair). An extractor / spring / plunger are cheap. My friend recieved two CMP Garands neither of which functioned so, I wouldn't rely on CMP volunteers getting it right 100% of the time. I would first check the chamber to make sure it was properly chambered (no grooves etc) then check tension on the extractor, if properly tensioned, then it night be out if spec or the bolt itself may be out of spec. CMP Specials are specially built rifles by armorers, using new production or older parts that have been inspected and refinished. Volunteers have nothing to do with them. Matter of fact, volunteers have nothing to do with anything when it comes to building a rifle. At most, they would uncrate and maybe break down some rifles. But most volunteers say they never even see the rifles. They are doing other menial tasks such as sweeping floors or breaking down boxes for trash or recycling. Not the volunteers who were armorers with the rifle teams. They build. Utterly irrelevant. Volunteer "armorers with the rifle teams" may well build rifles, but they aren't building the CMP Specials, and we're talking about a CMP Special here. |
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Quoted:
Utterly irrelevant. Volunteer "armorers with the rifle teams" may well build rifles, but they aren't building the CMP Specials, and we're talking about a CMP Special here. Quoted:
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What Fluffy said. Assuming it is indeed a Special, it came from CMP properly set up, in-spec, and functioning. My primary concern would be that some well-meaning but inept owner tried to "improve" something they didn't understand and thereby turned a working rifle into a non-working one. At a minimum, bring a bore mirror, a light, an M10 tool and a cleaning rod section with you. Carefully inspect the chamber for dings, gouges, and burrs. If that looks good, use the M10 and rod section to remove the extractor and see if the spring is broken. If all looks OK, I'd buy it (assuming the price is fair). An extractor / spring / plunger are cheap. My friend recieved two CMP Garands neither of which functioned so, I wouldn't rely on CMP volunteers getting it right 100% of the time. I would first check the chamber to make sure it was properly chambered (no grooves etc) then check tension on the extractor, if properly tensioned, then it night be out if spec or the bolt itself may be out of spec. CMP Specials are specially built rifles by armorers, using new production or older parts that have been inspected and refinished. Volunteers have nothing to do with them. Matter of fact, volunteers have nothing to do with anything when it comes to building a rifle. At most, they would uncrate and maybe break down some rifles. But most volunteers say they never even see the rifles. They are doing other menial tasks such as sweeping floors or breaking down boxes for trash or recycling. Not the volunteers who were armorers with the rifle teams. They build. Utterly irrelevant. Volunteer "armorers with the rifle teams" may well build rifles, but they aren't building the CMP Specials, and we're talking about a CMP Special here. The guy who I get all my Garand info from is a volunteer armorer for the CMP and an armorer for the Texas State rifle team and a former National Guard rifle team armorer. |
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