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Posted: 5/2/2010 8:59:33 AM EDT
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Hey guys. I am not new to the AR's by any means but the whole suppresor deal is new to me. It will be going on my Stealth 12" SBR w/ 10" rail.
Through some research I have narrowed it down to the Surefire FA556 SA or 212 and the Mini. Gemtech would either be the Halo or the G-5T. I only want advice and suggestions from actual owner / users please. Cost is not a factor. Thanks. |
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What kind of decibel reduction do you get? I have seen one fired that had the report of a 22lr and another that sounded like a 22 short. The later was quite enough that you could hear the action cycle it was as loud as the report. Just to clarify the later stated above was a MP5 SD not an AR. |
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You didn't list it, but I think you left out a pretty good company, so I am mentioning it just to make sure for you.
The Surefire cans are good, and pricey. The gemtech cans are nice and priced well. AAC cans are good and priced the same as the Gemtech cans. M41000, M42000, SPR/M4 are all great cans that are, IMO, better than the Surefire or Gemtech for the money. If you have already looked at those, then I'll leave you alone. If you can afford it, take the surefire out of the two of those... |
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You didn't list it, but I think you left out a pretty good company, so I am mentioning it just to make sure for you. The Surefire cans are good, and pricey. The gemtech cans are nice and priced well. AAC cans are good and priced the same as the Gemtech cans. M41000, M42000, SPR/M4 are all great cans that are, IMO, better than the Surefire or Gemtech for the money. If you have already looked at those, then I'll leave you alone. If you can afford it, take the surefire out of the two of those... I have a freind who owned AAC and Gemtech. He liked the Gemtech better. Said they were quiter and more durable. Thanks for the input regardless. I do believe I am leaning towards the Surefire mini at this point. |
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You didn't list it, but I think you left out a pretty good company, so I am mentioning it just to make sure for you. The Surefire cans are good, and pricey. The gemtech cans are nice and priced well. AAC cans are good and priced the same as the Gemtech cans. M41000, M42000, SPR/M4 are all great cans that are, IMO, better than the Surefire or Gemtech for the money. If you have already looked at those, then I'll leave you alone. If you can afford it, take the surefire out of the two of those... I have a freind who owned AAC and Gemtech. He liked the Gemtech better. Said they were quiter and more durable. Thanks for the input regardless. I do believe I am leaning towards the Surefire mini at this point. It depends who you ask. If you can shell out the cash for the surefire, I would try it if I were you. Too rich for my blood when other stuff works juuuuuust fine. |
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What other stuff are you speaking of?? So far I have gleaned from those with personal experience that the Gemtechs and Surefires are the best.
Gemtech if you are on a budget and Surefire if cost is no option and you want the best suppressor and mounting system. At this point thanks again guys I am going to go with the Surefire Mini. I chatted on line with a State trooper earlier who owned a Gemtech and now has a Surefire Mini. He tells me it is the best he has owned so far out of 4 suppressors. |
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I have a gemtech M4-02 and a Surefire 556k.
The gemtech is a good can, but I much prefer the surefires mounting system. The best thing about the surefire is if you have it on a properly threaded barrel, there will be zero POI shift. On a poorly threaded barrel, the shift will be repeatable. The Gemtech halo is a great can, it was what I was wanting to buy and ended up with the M4-02. However the halo may not index the same way each time, and it may be harder to be consistent. If your just looking for a fun toy, or something handy, I would recommend the Halo. If you are a precision nut, I would suggest the repeatability of the surefire. Edit: Oh if you buy an AAC, a company rep comes to your home and installs a chip in your brain making you bad mouth all other suppressor companies. |
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i have a surefire; its attachment is amazing. very small it is more expensive I have a SureFire 212 suppressor. I paid $1300 for it, which is probably about $300 more than I could have paid for it, but it was IN STOCK at the dealer I got it through. It is a great can. No POI shift at all. I run it on a couple of different rifles, including a 10.5" SBR. I bought it in April 2009 and got my Form 4 back (Barbara Payne!!!!!) in August 2009. Now, the Ops Inc 12th model I have paperwork submitted for was ordered in September, and showed up at my dealer in March. I could have bought 2 of them for what I paid for the Surefire. The next can I get will probably be a GemTech. |
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I can't see how the mini could beat the 212. The 212 is quiet enough and small enough. The Mini would probably be louder.
Maybe the State trooper has a 14.5 or 16" carbine and thats the reasoning behind it. From my understanding the mini was designed for Marines who have 14.5 or 20" weapons. I've heard the shortest barrel the Marine corps will use is 14.5". Our M4SD TM 5" long 15.8 ounce silencer sounds better on longer barrels and obviously if you had a longer barrel the smaller lighter can will be a handier unit. I don't see that the Bi-lock is worse than a Surefire mount from a usability perspective. If Gemtech is experiencing ~1MOA POI shift with the Bi-lock and no other problems, they probably have a mount that is every bit as good. Logically speaking it is every bit as fast and probably less involved to mount their silencer. Gemtech has had at least one silencer that had over 100,000 rounds through it (an older M4-96D with the Bi-lock mounting system). So it sounds as though durability is not a problem. Surefire has a good mount- I think they have a good thing going but I don't see the point in trashing Gemtech because Surefire has a good mount when Gemtech's mount hasn't really been proven to be less than suitable. |
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I have a Surefire FA556AR. With respect, it sounds like you need to do a lot more analysis of what features you want in a can first and which features are a priority to you. I say that because you have given several candidates that vary dramatically in features and performance. The HALO will attach to any NATO standard flash suppressor (with a peel washer) but I've heard it has a wicked POI shift. The Mini is very small and light but I don't think it suppresses as well. There are less exaggerated trade offs in the other models you mentioned, but it is still worth considering exactly what features you place a premium on. Once you determine that, then decide on the model. I'd also advise that you look at a broader range of companies once you decide what features are most important to you. For example, if you determined that sheer durability and warranty service were more important to you than all other considerations, you might go so far as to choose YHM. They make one hell of a beatin' stick of a can, much heavier than my Surefire, but by all accounts very durable. They also back it up with a rock solid warranty and impeccable customer service. I'm not saying you should go that way, just giving an example of how a different set of priorities would drive you in a different direction. Here are a few features you may want to consider in no particular order: price, weight, length, diameter, length added to muzzle, dB reduction, POI shift, attachment method, reputation of the company, the list goes on and on.
As for actual sound suppression, most of the full size cans from decent manufacturers are probably going to sound pretty similar you your ear if you are shooting standard velocity 5.56mm ammo. Sounds like you have the ideal host, though. One final consideration is going to be how much clearance you get from various different mounts between the can and your rail. The bottom line is the same thing I tell everyone looking to buy a can: Shoot and handle as many different models as possible. Read lots of reviews of as many different models as you can, understanding that personal bias is present and not to believe everything you read on the interwebs. When you feel confident, bite the bullet and buy your can. I'm sure you'll be pleased with any of the models you mentioned. You're gonna get another one anyway. ETA: You guys are gonna hate me. I found a Polytech underfolder with spike bayonet in really nice condition for $419, bought it and traded for my FA556AR. ETA2: For the record I also own a Gemtech Outback II. |
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IIRC I was once issued an M4QD and it was heavy at 22 ounces, and its mount wasn't totally sexy as it did require two hands to mount the product, but I liked it and I used it, and it had about a 2MOA shift probably because my barrel thread was not perfect. I mounted it for every mission, and never really felt extremely inconvenienced by the mount. I really don't think the mount being quick and sexy is that important. What is important is that the mount secures the unit to the barrel without requiring armorer level maintenance, that POI shift on a perfect barrel is minimal, and that the mount allows the silencer to be removed by the operator, without armorer level maintenance, for cleaning.
People get all wound up around "fast attach". Fast attach is marketing. The KAC can took maybe 15-30 seconds to mount even in total darkness, and on QRF missions we would most of the time be out the gate in under 3 minutes unless our mission was scrubbed. I would attach the silencer in the vehicle as we rolled toward the gate. If you need a silencer to mount faster, you probably are not giving yourself enough time to prepare for the mission. I say this because I just don't understand extremely fast mounting being a real "need" more than a catchy sales point. "It looked good in the Surefire video" doesn't have the same meaning as "there is an operational need for this to be this quick." There may even exist contracts that specify time to mount and dismount, but those are probably caused by people writing the contract wanting a certain item and knowing that correct verbage will help the unit they want to be supplied to win the contract. |
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People get all wound up around "fast attach". Fast attach is marketing. While the speed may be marketing - I like that my G5 attaches in the same "clock" location every time, and can't come loose. No chance of baffle strikes due to me not screwing the can on correctly. that said, my next can will probably be a Surefire - I like what I see. |
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People get all wound up around "fast attach". Fast attach is marketing. While the speed may be marketing - I like that my G5 attaches in the same "clock" location every time, and can't come loose. No chance of baffle strikes due to me not screwing the can on correctly. that said, my next can will probably be a Surefire - I like what I see. One orientation is a good feature, not coming loose and no chance of improperly mounting the unit would be covered under secure attachment/any decent system should accomplish those things. While there are rumors of the Navy experiencing M4QD's coming loose and ending up at the bottom of the ocean, any military man would realize this story is a really good way to take home an unregistered souvenier. I don't feel its a real problem. If it was the government wouldn't have bought 40,000 of them. The M4QD used one orientation by virtue of the cam out pin indexing the cam out notch. The Surefire product borrowed that feature from the M4QD. |
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I'll echo what someone else said, if price is not a big issue, I'd go with the Surefire, the "K" model, for lightness and ease of use, though only by a small margin.
FWIW, I've used both a good bit, but own a HALO. On the one hand, for a single dedicated platform, I prefer the mounting system of the Surefire over the G5, my own subjective opinion. I went with the HALO, however because I have multiple platforms with NATO flash hiders, and for me it offered the most compatibility, and I managed to find a lightly used one for sub- $450. A lot will depend on what factors you consider to be most important, for me, I could outfit every rifle I have with peel-washers before hitting the cost of a single Surefire or G5 mount, and given the price and flexibility, the HALO was a no-brainer. ~Augee |
| For me "fast attach" means, like Green0 said, it attaches securely and consistently and I don't have to spend a long time screwing it onto threads. I think the fast attach feature is important but the actual period of time it takes isn't so much. FWIW, It takes me two hands to detach my FA556AR. |
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I've never had a significant problem with the G5 mount. It will stick if you let it get really filthy, but all QD mounts have that problem to some extent.
The Surefire cans seem nice also; I'm just not sure they're that much nicer for the additional cost involved. |
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For me "fast attach" means, like Green0 said, it attaches securely and consistently and I don't have to spend a long time screwing it onto threads. I think the fast attach feature is important but the actual period of time it takes isn't so much. FWIW, It takes me two hands to detach my FA556AR. Not having to screw it on is cool, but the biggest thing you pick up, in my opinion, is being able to mount the silencer mount one time properly with a wrench, specified torque, and rockcett and know that for the future it is properly mounted, whereas with a thread mount you'll find yourself at the range or ready to use the item in most cases without a wrench, hand tightening and then using it and worrying about it breaking loose. The QD designs are tool-less so you get the benefit of all the security of a properly mounted silencer without worrying about tools. |
| I think Surefire would be my pic of the two. Of cans not listed the Ops 15th and AAC M4-2000 are both excellent performers from reliable companies. I go shooting with a guy who has a Halo frequently, I have a m4-2000. He wishes he would have bought the m4-2000 - it's quieter to the ear, has the same POI shift as his (about 1.5" down at 100m), and it's attachment system is great. It's also got a lot of different mount options. Weigh the company bashing you hear online with a grain of salt, unfounded bias is the name of the game of this internet. |
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It will be going on my Stealth 12" SBR w/ 10" rail. Gemtech would either be the Halo or the G-5T. I only want advice and suggestions from actual owner / users please. Cost is not a factor. Thanks. ***Sir, If cost isn't an issue, the G5-T would be suggested over the HALO, if for no other reason than to try to compare apples-to-apples a bit more in the weight department. The G5-T is 14 ounces and change, which is pretty darn light for a can that's got top-level dB reduction and some room to breathe to help with backpressure. HALOs are certainly great suppressors, but you seem to be focusing in after "race car" rather than "4x4" units, if I can draw an analogy... I've got one of Mark's Stealth 12's, set up as an SBR with the 11" rail, which is almost identical to what you're suggesting you'd be running - pic below should give a decent view of what you'd wind up with if running a G5-T on that setup. 
If you've got any questions about the Gemtech product, I'll try to answer them for you. Regards, Kel GEMTECH TEAM GUY ARFCOM INDUSTRY DISCLOSURE: Last night I told a stranger all about you They smiled patiently with disbelief I always knew you would succeed, no matter what you tried And I know you did it all in spite of me Still I'm proud to have know you for the short time that I did Glad to have been a step up on your way Proud to be part of your illustrious career And I know you did it all in spite of me |
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From Defense Review The 212 runs in the mid-to-high 130s (decibals) on the 14.5″-barreled M4/M4A1 carbine. It usually runs at 134-136 db on a M4, on average. Add a couple of db’s for the Mini. SureFire designed and developed their Micro suppressor for a military unit running ARs with 16″ barrels wanted a super-short, superlight suppressor. The Micro has an overal length of 4.2 inches, weighs 12 ounces, and is 1.5″ in diameter and still takes the weapon down to the low 140s with regard to decibal level. Meaning the Micro is a little loud even on 16" barrel weapons. The Mini is probably ear safe on a 14.5" barrel and most likely not on a 10.5" barrel. The 212 is ear safe, possibly even on 10.5" barrels. That's what I gather from it anyway. More from Defense Review: Mr. Dueck told us the following during a phone interview a few months ago: “What’s important to communicate is true minimal impact shift, true repeatability, you take it off the weapon, shoot your weapon, use your weapon, have your barrel smokin’ hot, ya’ know, take a suppressor out of your pouch, it’ll still fit on, it’ll still lock on. Your zero, if you do have a slight change, let’s say you have 3/4 MOA (Minute of Angle) worth of impact shift, it’s gonna’ be exactly the same place it was the last time you had your suppressor on. If you had no impact shift the last time, it’s gonna’ be no impact shift this next time you put it on and 100 times later. The other ability is every [SureFire] suppressor you buy is gonna’ be the same. I did a demo recently. I brought out aMicro , a Mini, a 212, a 556MG [FA556MG], an older 556K, a couple of 556Ks, 556MGs had been down range in Iraq for a awhile and just had the piss beaten out of ‘em, and put ‘em all on paper in front of people, and every suppressor mounted on the same rifle shot in the same place, regardless of the fact that the MGs weigh 21 ounces and the Micros weigh 12 ounces.” According to Dueck, average point-of-impact shift of SureFire Suppressors is less than 1 MOA. “You could have ten M4s, and you could have…four of ‘em would have no impact shift, two of ‘em would have a quarter minute shift, two of ‘em would have a half minute, and one of ‘em would have a minute, but generally you put the adapter on…where I’m gettin’ shift from is crooked bores during themanufacturing process. Somebody puts threads on that aren’t [properly] aligned with the barrel. It doesn’t take a lot to be off to get shift. But, I mean generally speaking, you put our suppressor on a good upper, it shoots. It does exactly what we say it does, and what I’ve seen is, ya’ know, when I look at the competition…everybody’ll make the same claims I’m making, but you can’t go to the range and prove it,” Dueck said. I've heard people on this same forum quote as much as 10 MOA shifts on their 212's and I believe Barry in so far as 1MOA or less shift is attainable, but that will not reflect reality with most aftermarket barrels. I'll tell you one thing if you have 10 Colt M4's I'd be surprised if one of them grouped better than 2MOA with M855. That will make discerning a "ZERO IMPACT SHIFT" sort of like determining the subject matter in a Picasso painting. If you had 10 factory colt 14.5" Army contract barrels from a random sampling and did better than 2MOA shift with the worst barrel I would be surprised. Take 10 ADCO threaded barrels, I'll bet you have 10 barrels with under 1MOA POI shift. You have to realize there is a difference between reality and a sales pitch and that factory barrels just aren't manufactured with suppressors in mind. In my limited experience with barrels, most factory production barrels are threaded concentric to the OD, while the bore has some angular run out from the drilling operation which results in muzzle eccentricity of the bore in relation to the thread. That runout in many cases is .002" or more. I had one barrel with .011" of runout, while another manufacturer I talked to had a different brand with .008" ADCO has reported on the forum here barrels as bad as .010" that I've read about. Some silencers on the market have single side bore clearance as low as .009" meaning those would result in a baffle strike on the first round out the tube with the worst industry barrels. Most silencers on the market have somewhere between .013-.038" per side of bore clearance at the tightest aperture, meaning they will pass bullets from even the most eccentric industry barrels, but will experience POI shifts as gas tends to try to center the bullet in the bore. |
| I recently got my HALO 2009 model and I am very pleased with it. It is an improvement over my Gemtech M4-96D with the G5 mount. Hey if money isn't an issue I would go with the set-up Kel posted. High speed low drag,light weight and sexy. It may even make up for penis size! I'd go with the G5T,you only live once. |
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I recently got my HALO 2009 model and I am very pleased with it. It is an improvement over my Gemtech M4-96D with the G5 mount. Hey if money isn't an issue I would go with the set-up Kel posted. High speed low drag,light weight and sexy. It may even make up for penis size! I'd go with the G5T,you only live once. What in your opinion quantifies that? Lighter weight? More affordable mounts? Originally posted by Bluefalcon
I get a bit less than one MOA shift from my RRA and my FA556AR. They will do that every time with a good barrel thread. You must have gotten a decent barrel. I stopped playing roulette and just buy ADCO barrels now. |
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I recently got my HALO 2009 model and I am very pleased with it. It is an improvement over my Gemtech M4-96D with the G5 mount. Hey if money isn't an issue I would go with the set-up Kel posted. High speed low drag,light weight and sexy. It may even make up for penis size! I'd go with the G5T,you only live once. What in your opinion quantifies that? Lighter weight? More affordable mounts? Originally posted by Bluefalcon
I get a bit less than one MOA shift from my RRA and my FA556AR. They will do that every time with a good barrel thread. You must have gotten a decent barrel. I stopped playing roulette and just buy ADCO barrels now. Roger that. I bought this rifle long before I got the can. Just got lucky with the threads. Next time will probably be an ADCO barrel. If not I'll have my gunsmith check it. |
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I have a gemtech M4-02 and a Surefire 556k. The gemtech is a good can, but I much prefer the surefires mounting system. The best thing about the surefire is if you have it on a properly threaded barrel, there will be zero POI shift. On a poorly threaded barrel, the shift will be repeatable. The Gemtech halo is a great can, it was what I was wanting to buy and ended up with the M4-02. However the halo may not index the same way each time, and it may be harder to be consistent. If your just looking for a fun toy, or something handy, I would recommend the Halo. If you are a precision nut, I would suggest the repeatability of the surefire. Edit: Oh if you buy an AAC, a company rep comes to your home and installs a chip in your brain making you bad mouth all other suppressor companies. As someone who has met you at the range and owns several AAC cans. 
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I am a stocking SureFire suppressor dealer in Central Alabama. Generally have at least one FA556-212 and one FA762SS in stock along with a selection of mounts. Can get any of the others.
Stewart Solutions LLC Leeds, AL 35094 Bill McDonald 205-602-0648 [email protected] |
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To answer Greeno, I have had great experiences with Gemtech cans and thier customer service. I have seen not one but two surefire cans go kaboom on the range. Gemtech put my G5 mount on my M4-96D and had it back in hand in less than a month.
I am not an expert on suppressors ,but I have two Gemtech cans that work all the time and have ordered a third and paid for it already. If I want informed answers on a suppressor I usually go to John Titsworth's site or Rob Silver's site. Dr. Dater also has been a big help with getting answers to specfic questions. Gemtech or Surefire? Gemtech, every time. Gemtech or Griffin Armament?, Gemtech every time. PHD or GreenO? PHD every time. |
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I guess I have an AAC chip implanted inmy head, but both Surefire and Gemtech make great cans.
Between the two I like the surefire Quick attach system. Kel: Quick question about titanium . . . . does the titanium can last as long on the semi auto rifles as the Stainless cans? What is the expected life of a Ti can v. steel? |
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I am a stocking SureFire suppressor dealer in Central Alabama. Generally have at least one FA556-212 and one FA762SS in stock along with a selection of mounts. Can get any of the others. Stewart Solutions LLC Leeds, AL 35094 Bill McDonald 205-602-0648 [email protected] your website doesn't reflect any stock... just out of date? |
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To answer Greeno, I have had great experiences with Gemtech cans and thier customer service. I have seen not one but two surefire cans go kaboom on the range. Gemtech put my G5 mount on my M4-96D and had it back in hand in less than a month. I am not an expert on suppressors ,but I have two Gemtech cans that work all the time and have ordered a third and paid for it already. If I want informed answers on a suppressor I usually go to John Titsworth's site or Rob Silver's site. Dr. Dater also has been a big help with getting answers to specfic questions. Gemtech or Surefire? Gemtech, every time. Gemtech or Griffin Armament?, Gemtech every time. PHD or GreenO? PHD every time. I understand your biases. "Kaboom" is not a technical term. A failure of a surefire product could be caused by a number of things, some of which have nothing to do with the silencer. Improper mounting and bad alignment due to poor barrel threads are two. Abusive use or use on a very short barrel could also cause it. Without more description of actual failures it would be hard to ascertain whether the incidents of which you speak are valid reasons for believing surefire products to be inferior to Gemtech products. I've heard of one surefire failure due to a bulged tube near the mount in semi-auto firing but I don't know the barrel length/ ammo type, or fire schedule it occurred under so that specific incident is hard to draw conclusions from. That was from what I believe to be a credible industry source but that was all that was mentioned. No detail. I've met Phil. He's a nice guy, and Gemtech makes nice products. As far as my company and our products, we're getting started. We aren't built on a mountain of money like Surefire, but I do believe our 5.56 cans we'll be releasing later this month will be competitive at their price points. One Surefire Mini for $1390, or 3 of our M4-SD A2 snap on silencers for $1650. The product can't be compared without comparing price. If I had a name that would allow me to build and sell $1390 5.56 silencers I'm sure I could do something competitive there as well. This month we're bringing out a silencer for $595 that is 100% inconel 625. That's baffles/rear cap/front cap and tube. For the price I think we deliver everything we can to the customer. |
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GreenO, I find it difficult to take you seriously. On one hand you try to make yourself sound like the all knowing all powerful oracle of suppressor technology and in the next breath you shamelessly plug you company and it's products. Most times you come off sounding like a pompous blow hard trying make a point while belittling whoever the OP was at that time.
Kaboom is not a technical term but i am sure that most here know exactly what that means and I do not come to this site for a vocabulary lesson. Dan Shea, Doctor Dater, Howard Heeg,Kent Lomont and others who I have asked intelligent always answered them as best they could and always in a polite manner. They never talked DOWN at me as if I had no idea what I was talking about. To answer the OP's question about Gemtech or surefire I gave my opinion, not bias. Bias suggests lack of investigation and personal feeling. Truth be had and facts observed the Gemtech is a better product. |
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What kind of decibel reduction do you get? I have seen one fired that had the report of a 22lr and another that sounded like a 22 short. The later was quite enough that you could hear the action cycle it was as loud as the report. Just to clarify the later stated above was a MP5 SD not an AR. latter |
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GreenO, I find it difficult to take you seriously. On one hand you try to make yourself sound like the all knowing all powerful oracle of suppressor technology and in the next breath you shamelessly plug you company and it's products. Most times you come off sounding like a pompous blow hard trying make a point while belittling whoever the OP was at that time. Kaboom is not a technical term but i am sure that most here know exactly what that means and I do not come to this site for a vocabulary lesson. Dan Shea, Doctor Dater, Howard Heeg,Kent Lomont and others who I have asked intelligent always answered them as best they could and always in a polite manner. They never talked DOWN at me as if I had no idea what I was talking about. To answer the OP's question about Gemtech or surefire I gave my opinion, not bias. Bias suggests lack of investigation and personal feeling. Truth be had and facts observed the Gemtech is a better product. I simply am a suppressor enthusiast and company owner. I don't feel I try to come across as anything but that. When I mention Adco barrel threading for instance, I'm only saying for $30 more spent on an ADCO barrel you can ensure you don't have to pay for an entirely new barrel in the case of 10.5's or for $125 threading on a longer factory barrel with a bad thread. I want to save people money, time, and frustration. Pompous I certainly am not. If you know anyone in business who doesn't plug products, you have a perfect example of someone who either doesn't believe in their product or who is not a very good business person because products don't sell themselves to people who don't know they exist. In addition to my interest in suppressors that would probably have me around on occasion regardless, this account costs money and the value derived from it is more or less directly related to my participation in discussions. If I don't post, marketing value falls to near zero. Did I be-little anyone? Where did I be-little anyone? Please show me. If I had to search the closest I've recently come was to mention someone used poor sentence structure during their post bitching about someone else's failure to adhere to English grammer rules. I thought there was too much irony in that situation. I probably should not have commented. My reference to your use of "kaboom" was an attempt to get some clarification as to what happened. If someone is going to throw a company under the bus in an effort to put another company in a more favorable light, they should support it with some details of how the suppressor failure was a fault of the design or manufacturing defects. I'm fairly certain the Surefire suppressor cannot be a defective product because they sell hundreds to the military. A defective product in this industry could not be sold by hundreds to the military year after year. Defective suppressors can be safety risks to the military and to civilians in the area. |
| Wow, I stand corrected. You win, you are awesome . you are the most intelligent person in the whole world. you know everything and I was foolish to even thinkI could post anything of value in this thread. Thanks GreenO for setting me straight. I can't wait to meet you at SHOT next year, then we can continue this discussion face to face. |
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