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Posted: 12/17/2013 11:37:18 AM EDT
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Am thinking about getting into night vision for a dedicated yote gun (suppressed AR15), and was wondering if this unit would fit my needs?
http://tnvc.com/shop/m845-mk-4-2-5x-gen2-shp-red-dot-sight/ my neck of the woods includes some wooded pines and an open field spanning about 200 yards from my house. I like the idea of the red dot since I typically shoot with an AimPoint. any inputs/suggestions welcome. I'd like to keep whatever unit I get under $2k.... TIA |
| The M845 Is a really well thought out piece of gear. You'll need some extra illumination for using Gen2 in a hunting role, for most nights. I like hunting with an illuminator anyways, as it shines their eyes just like a spotlight would, only through your NV. If your going on a Gen 2 budget, which isn't a bad thing, look at the Streamlight SuperTac IR illuminator. It is around 850nm which is ideal for Gen2 and has enough umph to reach out past where you can ideally use low magnification gen 2 night vision. I paid $79 for my SuperTac on Amazon. It emits a slight red glow, but it doesn't spook the animals and it isn't visible to us past 20-30ft. If that bothers you, just put a layer of $3 IR pass-through film over the lens. |
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The Gen2 M845 represents very good value for the budget minded consumer. It is not going to have the resolution of Gen3, and you will probably want to have a good IR illuminator. I typically encourage folks to save up the extra funds to buy Gen3, but if that is simply prohibitive, then this device isn't a bad option.
You mention yotes as the anticipated target. Are there any concerns regarding collateral casualty which might influence selecting a device with better resolution? |
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The M845 Is a really well thought out piece of gear. You'll need some extra illumination for using Gen2 in a hunting role, for most nights. I like hunting with an illuminator anyways, as it shines their eyes just like a spotlight would, only through your NV. If your going on a Gen 2 budget, which isn't a bad thing, look at the Streamlight SuperTac IR illuminator. It is around 850nm which is ideal for Gen2 and has enough umph to reach out past where you can ideally use low magnification gen 2 night vision. I paid $79 for my SuperTac on Amazon. It emits a slight red glow, but it doesn't spook the animals and it isn't visible to us past 20-30ft. If that bothers you, just put a layer of $3 IR pass-through film over the lens. thanks. would u think the SuperTac would allow it to be able to extend the useable range out to 200 yards? |
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The Gen2 M845 represents very good value for the budget minded consumer. It is not going to have the resolution of Gen3, and you will probably want to have a good IR illuminator. I typically encourage folks to save up the extra funds to buy Gen3, but if that is simply prohibitive, then this device isn't a bad option. You mention yotes as the anticipated target. Are there any concerns regarding collateral casualty which might influence selecting a device with better resolution? never thought of collateral casualty...but I do have quite a bit of adjacent land (govt property) behind my place which is heavily wooded. generally nobody would be in that area but I suppose u never know.... |
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+1 it looks OK but since I would already be 2/3rds the way to a gen 3 M845 in terms of cost I'd seriously consider going there for the low light performance. didn't know there was a Gen 3 version of the M845, so I would consider it, especially if I'm 2/3 of the way as far as funds are concerned. I guess that might be better if I could swing it eh>? I'm assuming the difference between Gen 2 and 3 is quite a bit... have no experience with NV. |
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thanks. would u think the SuperTac would allow it to be able to extend the useable range out to 200 yards? Quoted:
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The M845 Is a really well thought out piece of gear. You'll need some extra illumination for using Gen2 in a hunting role, for most nights. I like hunting with an illuminator anyways, as it shines their eyes just like a spotlight would, only through your NV. If your going on a Gen 2 budget, which isn't a bad thing, look at the Streamlight SuperTac IR illuminator. It is around 850nm which is ideal for Gen2 and has enough umph to reach out past where you can ideally use low magnification gen 2 night vision. I paid $79 for my SuperTac on Amazon. It emits a slight red glow, but it doesn't spook the animals and it isn't visible to us past 20-30ft. If that bothers you, just put a layer of $3 IR pass-through film over the lens. thanks. would u think the SuperTac would allow it to be able to extend the useable range out to 200 yards? Yes. |
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never thought of collateral casualty...but I do have quite a bit of adjacent land (govt property) behind my place which is heavily wooded. generally nobody would be in that area but I suppose u never know.... I assume that most folks can tell the difference between a human and a 4-legged critter, even through a NOD. This was more alluding to the difference between a yote, fawn, calf, etc., which again should be relatively easy for an experienced individual to disseminate based upon behavior of the subject. I just tend to be hyper conservative when sending high velocity projectiles through the air in the "dark", and I don't think that you will find many folks complaining about higher resolution. If you can swing the cost of Gen3, you will be even more impressed by the technology. |
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didn't know there was a Gen 3 version of the M845, so I would consider it, especially if I'm 2/3 of the way as far as funds are concerned. I guess that might be better if I could swing it eh>? I'm assuming the difference between Gen 2 and 3 is quite a bit... have no experience with NV. Quoted:
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+1 it looks OK but since I would already be 2/3rds the way to a gen 3 M845 in terms of cost I'd seriously consider going there for the low light performance. didn't know there was a Gen 3 version of the M845, so I would consider it, especially if I'm 2/3 of the way as far as funds are concerned. I guess that might be better if I could swing it eh>? I'm assuming the difference between Gen 2 and 3 is quite a bit... have no experience with NV. Gen 3 ...resolution is one factor but luminous sensitivity is a whole other world of difference between 2 and 3. With no moon and little starlight gen 3 will still be feeding you long range landscape information where 2 will only show you what's going on up close and what you can actively illuminate. I spotted a still, dark, black pickup truck in the desert on a moonless night at 300+ yards with my gen 3 PVS 14 with no illumination. I doubt a gen 2 could have come even close. |
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I assume that most folks can tell the difference between a human and a 4-legged critter, even through a NOD. This was more alluding to the difference between a yote, fawn, calf, etc., which again should be relatively easy for an experienced individual to disseminate based upon behavior of the subject. I just tend to be hyper conservative when sending high velocity projectiles through the air in the "dark", and I don't think that you will find many folks complaining about higher resolution. If you can swing the cost of Gen3, you will be even more impressed by the technology. Quoted:
Quoted:
never thought of collateral casualty...but I do have quite a bit of adjacent land (govt property) behind my place which is heavily wooded. generally nobody would be in that area but I suppose u never know.... I assume that most folks can tell the difference between a human and a 4-legged critter, even through a NOD. This was more alluding to the difference between a yote, fawn, calf, etc., which again should be relatively easy for an experienced individual to disseminate based upon behavior of the subject. I just tend to be hyper conservative when sending high velocity projectiles through the air in the "dark", and I don't think that you will find many folks complaining about higher resolution. If you can swing the cost of Gen3, you will be even more impressed by the technology. lol....gotcha. yeah, shouldn't be a problem. I'm thinking the Gen 3 would be a better choice for me and would add to the safety/dissemination factor... |
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...resolution is one factor but luminous sensitivity is a whole other world of difference between 2 and 3. With no moon and little starlight gen 3 will still be feeding you long range landscape information where 2 will only show you what's going on up close and what you can actively illuminate.
I spotted a still, dark, black pickup truck in the desert on a moonless night at 300+ yards with my gen 3 PVS 14 with no illumination. I doubt a gen 2 could have come even close. that's awesome. I spent the last 12 months working out in Utah and spent a lot of weekends out in the Nevada desert shooting. I can see where the extra bucks would be worth going Gen 3. thanks |
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to the OP, I have similar hunting conditions out here in WA and in the last couple months i picked up a d740 and a pvs14 and a ps32. The 740 is nice but for closer in hunting that is dynamic, if i were you i would pick up a cheap 2nd hand pvs14 for under 2k and a railmaster IR laser. I think that would be the best for what you want to do. the gen 3 PVS, dont be afraid of a couple of blems, would be great for identifing and seeing what your hunting and the IR laser on the firearms will get it done.
CJG |
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to the OP, I have similar hunting conditions out here in WA and in the last couple months i picked up a d740 and a pvs14 and a ps32. The 740 is nice but for closer in hunting that is dynamic, if i were you i would pick up a cheap 2nd hand pvs14 for under 2k and a railmaster IR laser. I think that would be the best for what you want to do. the gen 3 PVS, dont be afraid of a couple of blems, would be great for identifing and seeing what your hunting and the IR laser on the firearms will get it done. CJG Also good advice. Weapons mounted NV is great if you know exactly where your prey is going to be, i.e. hunting over bait. It gets old scanning fields for animals at the high ready, not to mention the safety concern. Both have their applications. I like having both.... |
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Also good advice. Weapons mounted NV is great if you know exactly where your prey is going to be, i.e. hunting over bait. It gets old scanning fields for animals at the high ready, not to mention the safety concern. Both have their applications. I like having both.... Quoted:
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to the OP, I have similar hunting conditions out here in WA and in the last couple months i picked up a d740 and a pvs14 and a ps32. The 740 is nice but for closer in hunting that is dynamic, if i were you i would pick up a cheap 2nd hand pvs14 for under 2k and a railmaster IR laser. I think that would be the best for what you want to do. the gen 3 PVS, dont be afraid of a couple of blems, would be great for identifing and seeing what your hunting and the IR laser on the firearms will get it done. CJG Also good advice. Weapons mounted NV is great if you know exactly where your prey is going to be, i.e. hunting over bait. It gets old scanning fields for animals at the high ready, not to mention the safety concern. Both have their applications. I like having both.... thanks. Makes sense to me, and sounds like that might be a better set-up for my application then. So you use the PVS-14 on a helmet mount and just tag the target with the laser, or do u mount the 14 to the rifle? |
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Head mount the PVS and put the railmaster on our AR. using the gun to scan with NV mounted on it gets old in about 5 minutes. I use a suppressor etc and the whole rig is pretty heavy, my arms ache after a few minutes of standing and scanning. even just hand scanning with the PVS is way better. Get a cheap PVS with some blemishes and head mount it. I picked up a couple older blemished PVS14's off ebay for around 1500 bux each last month. and while im sure they arent as perfectly clear and stain free as all the high end tubes guys debate on here about, they are Gen 3 and I can see things just fine with them. Keep your eyes out and see if you can find one that someone is willing to give you an inspection period or returnable through ebay if its not as described. that way if you get something and it is actually broke or just totally beat you can return it. There is some good deals out there if you do some research and look around.
CJG |
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thanks. Makes sense to me, and sounds like that might be a better set-up for my application then. So you use the PVS-14 on a helmet mount and just tag the target with the laser, or do u mount the 14 to the rifle? Quoted:
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to the OP, I have similar hunting conditions out here in WA and in the last couple months i picked up a d740 and a pvs14 and a ps32. The 740 is nice but for closer in hunting that is dynamic, if i were you i would pick up a cheap 2nd hand pvs14 for under 2k and a railmaster IR laser. I think that would be the best for what you want to do. the gen 3 PVS, dont be afraid of a couple of blems, would be great for identifing and seeing what your hunting and the IR laser on the firearms will get it done. CJG Also good advice. Weapons mounted NV is great if you know exactly where your prey is going to be, i.e. hunting over bait. It gets old scanning fields for animals at the high ready, not to mention the safety concern. Both have their applications. I like having both.... thanks. Makes sense to me, and sounds like that might be a better set-up for my application then. So you use the PVS-14 on a helmet mount and just tag the target with the laser, or do u mount the 14 to the rifle? IR laser, unless Im hunting over bait or a known crossing like a broken section in a fence, then I use weapons mounted also. |
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Head mount the PVS and put the railmaster on our AR. using the gun to scan with NV mounted on it gets old in about 5 minutes. I use a suppressor etc and the whole rig is pretty heavy, my arms ache after a few minutes of standing and scanning. even just hand scanning with the PVS is way better. Get a cheap PVS with some blemishes and head mount it. I picked up a couple older blemished PVS14's off ebay for around 1500 bux each last month. and while im sure they arent as perfectly clear and stain free as all the high end tubes guys debate on here about, they are Gen 3 and I can see things just fine with them. Keep your eyes out and see if you can find one that someone is willing to give you an inspection period or returnable through ebay if its not as described. that way if you get something and it is actually broke or just totally beat you can return it. There is some good deals out there if you do some research and look around. CJG I bet there are only 5 people here that can tell a good spec tube from a bravo tube....I'm not one of them, and Ive looked through quite a few tubes. |
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thanks. Makes sense to me, and sounds like that might be a better set-up for my application then. So you use the PVS-14 on a helmet mount and just tag the target with the laser, or do u mount the 14 to the rifle? In the system being described there the laser is mounted to the rifle (whole other can of worms here ) and the PVS-14 to a helmet. Upsides: it's a lot easier to walk around in the dark you CAN mount the PVS-14 to a rifle later (there are safety limitations to recoil depending on the tube you use, and you'll need a NV compatible aiming device too) it's a lot lighter (M845 is more than 2 lbs) Downsides: now you have to spend 27 to 30-something bills on a quality new gen 3 PVS14, THEN buy a laser, a helmet system and could easily pass 40 bills by the time you're done, you might save some money on a used unit but there are chances with that... hold over with a laser is nearly impossible unless your target is right in front of an object taller than it is lasers are generally a little harder to aim, you have to sweep the ground up and out to your target in most cases unless there's a nice wide background behind your target. ...there's probably more to it, that's all I can think of for now. |
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Oh yea,
Another option is to find an ENVIS for $800ish, and drop the tube into a micro housing for $500ish. I like micro's and MUM's better than pvs-14's. Then you have a gen 3 monocular that's smaller and lighter than a 14, for $1300+. Then mount it on a helmet, get a UNI IR or CT Railmaster IR for $200ish for a laser and you are gtg. You have so many options here. However, Im not trying to push you away from the TNVC M845 here, as its a lot of NV for the money, and a fine unit. |
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I remembered on more thing- going prone with a head-mounted unit is nearly impossible. Kneeling or sitting is doable if the terrain allows for it. People shoot and qual every day in the prone with helmet mounted NV, so I wouldn't say nearly impossible, but it is ridiculously uncomfortable. I don't ever hunt from the prone though. A tripod with a HOG saddle is a handy piece of gear for static night hunting. |
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appreciate all the inputs. so I did some checking locally for some used NV. Is an OPMOD PVS-14 a good unit? found one used for sale and has a J-mount, weapons mount, and helmet mount. Am going to try to get by and see it over the next few days. That should work great for you, those use a pinaccle tube, should look nice and work well for your use. make sure and look through it at night. I think youll immedietly see that it will do what you want. check to make sure the front and rear focus adjustments work and arent siezed up and make sure the onboard IR works. check that buying going into a completely dark room with no windows, you wont see much but then when you turn the IR on, everything should be bright and you can see perfectly. Is it in your price point at under 2k? CJG |
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That should work great for you, those use a pinaccle tube, should look nice and work well for your use. make sure and look through it at night. I think youll immedietly see that it will do what you want. check to make sure the front and rear focus adjustments work and arent siezed up and make sure the onboard IR works. check that buying going into a completely dark room with no windows, you wont see much but then when you turn the IR on, everything should be bright and you can see perfectly. Is it in your price point at under 2k? CJG Quoted:
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appreciate all the inputs. so I did some checking locally for some used NV. Is an OPMOD PVS-14 a good unit? found one used for sale and has a J-mount, weapons mount, and helmet mount. Am going to try to get by and see it over the next few days. That should work great for you, those use a pinaccle tube, should look nice and work well for your use. make sure and look through it at night. I think youll immedietly see that it will do what you want. check to make sure the front and rear focus adjustments work and arent siezed up and make sure the onboard IR works. check that buying going into a completely dark room with no windows, you wont see much but then when you turn the IR on, everything should be bright and you can see perfectly. Is it in your price point at under 2k? CJG thanks for the tips and I will check those features out as you advise. it's listed for $2k, but I think I can get it for a little less than that.... |
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The cat's meow is a helmet-mounted -14 for nav, a handheld thermal for initial potential target location, and a magnified weapon-mounted NV device for positive ID/engagement. That configuration is not consistent with the OP's inquiry commercially. sounds awesome....one can always dream...if I can "get in" with a -14 for under $2k, I can always save up for the rest of the cats meow. |
| Received a Gen3 M845 today. The tube is really clean with great res, and the device is built like a brick shithouse. Only "complaint" so far is that the mount is a little tall for my liking, but that can be modified. Can't wait until the sun goes down to try it outdoors. |
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Received a Gen3 M845 today. The tube is really clean with great res, and the device is built like a brick shithouse. Only "complaint" so far is that the mount is a little tall for my liking, but that can be modified. Can't wait until the sun goes down to try it outdoors. Nice- I have one on order. What was your lead time please? |
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It seems like around a month or so, just as advised when the order was placed. Much quicker than tax stamps or the CMP. Thanks, and no worries. I just made my order on the website and wondered how things were going. The good stuff takes time as well as money. |
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