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Posted: 12/14/2008 2:21:05 PM EDT
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Hi,
Due to the recent election (you know the one where the US decided to become socialist). I was thinking of getting into reloading. I've been busy hording ammo but I know it would be cheaper to reload. I've read the FAQ's and done some searching but I've still got a few questions. Sorry if this is a repeat for anyone. -How much should I budget for reloading? I don't need the best equipment just something reliable. -What manufacturers/models should I look at or avoid? -Any other advice? Thanks and sorry if this has come up before. I searched but YMMV. |
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See the tacked threads above. There is plenty that comes up in search. But, what you have to decide is HOW MUCH YOU want to spend!
Your first step is buying the best reference book or what I call Reloading for Dummies or The ABC's of Reloading from Krause Publications. Read it cover to cover, and then read it again while taking notes! Look for a mentor at your local club, range, or purveyor of supplies! Another more technical book, is Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker. There are several great reloading manuals of the real kind not the freebee ones! Freebee manuals are good for cross referencing data, at times. For meaty manuals a person can not go wrong with the Lyman49th, Hornady, and Sierra. One must always look up loads when you compare/cross-reference data. Especially in larger calibers as some data might be using different brass from yours. Case in point before the Hodgdon used WW brass to work up loads with, whereas Sierra used Fed cases in their 308 Winchester loading information. Press - Single Stage or Turret presses are the best way to learn before advancing to any kind of progressive press. You will always have need for a single stage press. Redding and RCBS are good sources of all kinds of presses. RCBS Rockchucker Supreme for a single stage and Redding T7 for a turret press are basically the gold standard for the two different types. Dies - I like Redding Dies, and I would get the carbide expander ball upgrade for bottle neck rifle cases. Dillon makes carbide rifle sizer dies, but you still need to use case lube and make sure you lube the inside of the case neck, too. I would just stick with regular dies for rifle cartridges. Dillon makes die sets specifically for their press so to speak, meaning that it does not come with a case mouth belling die; Redding makes a set of dies for progressive presses, too. I like Forster competition seaters, and they can be had as an individual item. Dies are pretty much threaded universally, except for Lyman 310 dies, and Dillon dies for the Square Deal B. Accuracy nuts will use hand dies, and they require an arbor press be used. Shell holders (if the die set doesn't have them like Lee) or the appropriate shell plate for the progressive press. Remember that many shell holders work for more then one cartridge. I would do some home work, especially if you get a Dillon. Some cartridge conversions might only require you to get powder funnel for the new cartridge. A tumbler will be a good investment, as clean cases will not harm you dies. There are vibratory and rotary tumblers out there. I like corn cob media treated with some Iosso case polish. You can get walnut in bulk at Petco or Pet Smart. Bulk corn cob grit is a great way to reduce the cost of commercially supplied media, because you pay through the nose for the treated media from other vendors. MTM makes great loading block tray that handles most cartridges. Case Lube is great for both conventional dies, and to treat your brass used in a progressive press even with carbide dies. That extra lubricity makes the cycling of the press a tad slicker! Dillon spray lube works well for shake and bake application. I like Imperial Die Wax for rifle cartridges when FL sizing. Case Neck Brush to clean bottleneck rifle cases, copper bore brushes work well for this. Dial Calipers either mechanical or electronic Case Trimmer (Lee works, but Possum Hollow is better, Wilson makes the best hand powered Lathe trimmer, and Giraud is the best powered Trimmer) Deburring/Chamfering Tool – like the Wilson one chucked into the Sinclair Deburring Tool Holder. I like the K&M VLD chamfering tool. Primer Pocket Cleaner, reamer like the Hornady, and uniformer just remember that small primers are same size, where as large pistol and rifle are different sized in terms of height not width. Primer pocket swager is an optional tool, RCBS makes one that mounts on single stage presses. Some will use the Hornady Reamer. Some will use the Dillon Super Swage. Flash hole deburring tool is good tool to have Primer Flip Tray is needed for loading pick up tubes for some primer systems like the Dillon. Priming Tool (I like the RCBS (now even better with universal shell holder, but Sinclair makes the best) Powder Scale - remember that is always better to have a mechanical scale as a back up to any electronic scale. Powder Funnel kit with drop tubes especially if you intend to use powders like Varget. Powder Trickler (used to tweak powder charges) Powder Measure (nice for faster powder charges it does require a bit of learning curve to get consistent powder charges sort of rhythm thing) standard with progressive presses, but the RCBS Uniflow is nice! Redding makes a better one, and Harrell is the gold standard! Hammer Type Bullet Puller (for taking down the boo boo's), and you will always need one of these. The Collet type work great for most rifle rounds, to keep from making a mess. The Hornady Cam Lock is nice tool. Ammo boxes and labels, you can make your own labels with Avery Labels. I sometimes pick up the boxes from range trash, as the ones with plastic trays serve as a good loading block. A notebook for recording your results! Saves covering the same ground twice! A chronograph is great when working up loads, but is more a luxury in the beginning. |
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Quoted:
WOW! Thanks! Great info! One more question. I want to get into reloading as cheaply as I can with decent equipment. What ballpark $$ am I looking at? P.S. I just picked up The ABC's of Reloading.  As someone who recently started, I got my equipment (all new) and started loading for about $400.00. (I have more than that invested already - dies are not cheap  )
I did not go the cheapest nor the most expensive, I think I am somewhere in the middle. Everyone here will define 'decent equipment' differently. OK, time to get your head down.... (prepare for incomming) 
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| Sir, I think your question was quite thoroughly answered previously, but to put it in a context of minimum requirements: You'll need a press (single stage will be the cheapest), dies for each cartridge you intend to load for, powder measure, scale, and a primer tray in addition to at least one reloading manual. If you shop around you can find a combination of components in kit form or priced individually. Check out the RCBS master reloading kit I think they sell for under $300.00 these days. If you intend to reload any of the bottle neck rifle cartridges you will also need a trimmer and caliper. Everything else on the list can be improvised until you realize how nice tools designed for the purpose really are. HTH, 7zero1. |
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Quoted:
WOW! Thanks! Great info! One more question. I want to get into reloading as cheaply as I can with decent equipment. What ballpark $$ am I looking at? P.S. I just picked up The ABC's of Reloading. Consider........ OK.....so, I've been thinking (dangerous). Assuming, that I'd want more safety than just dipping powder and I'd like to expand someday to more than just one caliber. What would I do IF I had a limited budget? So........the Classic LEE Loader ($23.39). It can only be use with one caliber. It will only neck size cases, it's slow and I'll need to get a scale (for more safety) and I'll need a better way to handle powder. Anyway, I'll pass. Then, the Lee Hand Press Kit #90179 ($34.95).........it's a little better. Though I'd prefer a bench mounted press for ease of use. And, I would still have to buy dies ($22.59), powder handling equipment (scale and measure/hopper), and brass trimming equipment. I had one, once.......what a PIA. IMHO, bench mounted is the way to go. Hmmm........so, maybe the Lee Reloader Press w/ free manual #90700 ($27.79)..........well, it's a bench mounted "C" press and that's OK. But I'll still need dies ($22.59), a scale ($24.99) and powder measure/hopper ($23.39). Then, a primer tool ($10.19) and brass trimming tools ($5.39 cutter/holder & $4.59 length gauge). But, I'm already up to $118.93 and still short some small items. Next up........the Lee Breech Lock Press 50th Anniversary Kit #90050 ($88.99).......it's a standard press and it comes with a scale, powder measure/hopper, primer seater tool, plus a few extras. Sounds like everything except for the dies ($22.59) and brass trimming case length gauge ($4.59). Total $116.17 w/o shipping. Or, the kit that I prefer........the Lee Breech Lock Press Challenger Kit #90030 ($100.79).......it's just like the 50th Anniversary Kit but it has a separate hand primer tool w/ a variety of shell holders. Then, I'll need to add dies ($22.59) and brass trimming case length gauge ($4.59). Total $127.97 w/o shipping. I could add a LEE manual ($12.99) or I could just use the supplied data sheet that comes with the LEE dies. BTW, LEE prices vary, so shop around. And, I'm not mentioning where I saw these prices (as of 12-5-08) because, the seller was "out of stock" on some of the items mentioned. And, there is always USED equipment. HTH. Aloha, Mark PS…….I picked LEE for this example, only because, they make good inexpensive products. It's not meant as an endorsement over any of the other brand(s) out there in the market. HTH. Aloha, Mark |
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First of all, thanks for being patient with me and my dumb questions. I've been doing some more research on this forum and have been learning a lot. I should have done more searching before posting this but I appreciate all the help in spite of my being an R-tard and not doing my homework.
From what I've been reading & from doing some basic pricing it seems that it might be a good idea to just pony up and get something like the Dillon RL 550B or XL 650. Yeah they are kinda steep but I think (and you guys tell me if I'm wrong) that it should pay for itself over a relatively short time. At about the same price as I could pick up 2,000 rounds of cheap .223 rounds I could have the XL 650 and be in business. It seems like a lot of folks like the 55B so that might be the way to go. What I'm really trying to accomplish is avoiding the BS taxes that are coming. I'm late to the game and trying to get as much Ammo (or reloading equipment & supplies) before that assclown takes office. Yes, I'm one of the panic buyers driving prices up etc. Sorry 
It really seems like reloading is the way to go. Again, thanks for all your help and putting up with a n00b! |
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Quoted:
First of all, thanks for being patient with me and my dumb questions. I've been doing some more research on this forum and have been learning a lot. I should have done more searching before posting this but I appreciate all the help in spite of my being an R-tard and not doing my homework. From what I've been reading & from doing some basic pricing it seems that it might be a good idea to just pony up and get something like the Dillon RL 550B or XL 650. Yeah they are kinda steep but I think (and you guys tell me if I'm wrong) that it should pay for itself over a relatively short time. At about the same price as I could pick up 2,000 rounds of cheap .223 rounds I could have the XL 650 and be in business. It seems like a lot of folks like the 55B so that might be the way to go. What I'm really trying to accomplish is avoiding the BS taxes that are coming. I'm late to the game and trying to get as much Ammo (or reloading equipment & supplies) before that assclown takes office. Yes, I'm one of the panic buyers driving prices up etc. Sorry
It really seems like reloading is the way to go. Again, thanks for all your help and putting up with a n00b! You also have to consider the cost of the components (brass, bullets, primers, and powder) you're going to use for reloading. Reloading 1000 .223 general plinking rounds is ballpark $230 for me (with buying brass). Then around $170 the next 1000 (since the cost of brass drops out). So realistically, your looking at several thousand rounds before you break even (recovering the cost of the equipment and the components) and reloading is the better/cheaper option. Doing the calculations for me (I bought a turret press, which is a couple hundred dollars cheaper), I believe it was something like 2000-2500 rounds before I break even. Although I don't think that took into account all my cost when I did it, so it's probably a higher number. |
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Your 223 costs are too expensive bro.......
Here's what it costs me per 1k (minus brass, since that can be reused several times). I buy primers and powder in bulk, so the hazmat fee isn't that big of a deal All costs factor in shipping and hazmat, and are slightly rounded up. primers - $20 - Wolf SRM, from powder valley powder - $55 - Ramshot Tac (i use 26.0 gr for a 55gr FMJ) bullets - $62 - 55gr FMJ from montana gold So that's $137 per 1k of QUALITY 223. |
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Quoted:
Your 223 costs are too expensive bro....... Here's what it costs me per 1k (minus brass, since that can be reused several times). I buy primers and powder in bulk, so the hazmat fee isn't that big of a deal All costs factor in shipping and hazmat, and are slightly rounded up. primers - $20 - Wolf SRM, from powder valley powder - $55 - Ramshot Tac (i use 26.0 gr for a 55gr FMJ) bullets - $62 - 55gr FMJ from montana gold So that's $137 per 1k of QUALITY 223. Well here's my break down: 1K LC once fired $65 plus about $11 for shipping. 1K 55 grn FMJ-BT $72 shipped. 1K Federal 205 Primers $27 from Sportsmans warehouse. 8lbs AA2230 powder $124 from Sportsmans warehouse. (figure 280ish loads per pound, so conservatively 4 lbs used per 1000). 76+72+27+62 = $237 Knock the brass cost out for the next few reloads and it's $161. So yes, I could reduce the cost if I bought in bulk online. But just starting reloading 3 months ago, I didn't want to buy 32 lbs of powder, 10,000 primers, and 6000 bullets only to find out I didn't like it. I figure this is a good representation of the component costs he will be facing with just starting out, as he hopefully won't buy components in bulk first only to find out a different component would work better for him. Naturally, starting out you're going to test different combo's to find what works best for you and your needs. Then bulk buying commences. 
This and I'm only a grad student intern (crappy pay), so I can't yet drop $300-400 per order of components to get at the bulk savings. Although I just got hired as a mutual fund accoutant and when I start in a month I'll finally have some money.
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Thanks again guys! I think I'm going to start with a single stage to save some cash and learn on that. I'm really excited to get AS MUCH ammo as I can before that shitbag gets into office. It sounds like I'll need to figure out what works pretty quick and start buying in bulk to save some cash. Right now I'm picking up Wolf ammo for ~ $270 a case just to build up my supply. I should have around 3,000 rounds of .223 by the end of the week and I've got about the same of .40 and another 1K of .45 on the way. I also need more ARs, an AK or two, and maybe an FAL. I also need a gun safe and a second or third job to pay for all this shit. Obana is costing me money even before he takes office. 
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DO NOT get a single stage, and DO NOT get a progressive until you're sure you want to go that route. DO get a turret press so you do not have to change dies so much.
Lee, RCBS, Hornady and Redding all make excellent turret presses –– Redding for absolute accuracy (the Model T-7) and affordability. Make a decision on whether you are doing this to save money or make better bullets. Chances are you will not save money by making cheap-style ammo that you can get for nearly 30-cents per round. But you will save a ton of money if you make your own high quality, accuracy stuff that would retail for $30 plus per 20 round box or a good bit more than 60 cents per round. |
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