Warning

 

Close
Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Cancel Confirm
AR15.COM
Armory Sponsor
3/20/2008 7:29:01 PM EDT
What does one need to do in order to get a factory SBR, as far as paperwork.  Which form do I need to fill out
3/20/2008 7:37:27 PM EDT
[#1]
None really.  You buy the SBR from the manufacturer and they will send it to a Class 3 dealer in your state.  Then, the dealer will transfer the weapon to you and that process will require a Form 4.

I have an MGI Modular lower I ordered that is being factory papered as a SBR plus I have a Mini UZI from Vector Arms that was factory done as an SBR.  This way, I don't need to engrave my info and it just looks better as a factory SBR on the paperwork then if it were to say Quarterbore converted it.

I wish Bushmaster offered factory SBR AR-15 lowers...  then again, perhaps they do?
3/21/2008 7:47:05 AM EDT
[#2]
How do you like that MGI lower?
3/21/2008 8:16:29 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
How do you like that MGI lower?


It is still sitting at the manufacture waiting on BATFE paperwork...  I just bought it a week or two ago.

I love my Vector Mini SBR however for what it's worth
3/21/2008 8:58:02 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:

I wish Bushmaster offered factory SBR AR-15 lowers...  then again, perhaps they do?


SBR lowers?   I thought that the SBR had to be assembled with barrel, etc... when it was papered.  How would you paper a lower as an SBR?
3/21/2008 9:01:46 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I wish Bushmaster offered factory SBR AR-15 lowers...  then again, perhaps they do?


SBR lowers?   I thought that the SBR had to be assembled with barrel, etc... when it was papered.  How would you paper a lower as an SBR?


No, it has to be REGISTERED as a SBR before you can configure it with the short barrel!

You can SBR a receiver just fine, now the BATFE may come back asking for a barrel length but to prevent that include a note with your Form 1 sayingit is just a stripped receiver and it does not have a barrel yet.  That way if they demand one, you can make an educated guess as mine will normally be used with a 11.5/inch upper.
3/21/2008 9:16:30 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:]

No, it has to be REGISTERED as a SBR before you can configure it with the short barrel!



That is true for non SOT holders, but 02 Manufacturers can make NFA items and then register them via a Form 2 within a certain number of days
3/21/2008 9:27:31 AM EDT
[#7]
OK, but you understand my point...  You don't have to have a short barrel on the receiver for it to be registered as a SBR.  If I had a SBR (like my Mini UZI) I can use it with an 18-inch barrel if I wish and the gun is still as SBR because of the way it is registered.

The same would apply to say an M-16 if a person was to pull out the M-16 fire control parts and put in AR-15 components.  Just because the gun can not shoot in full auto does not make the registered receiver M-16 a non-machinegun.

The forms define what they are.
3/21/2008 9:50:30 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
OK, but you understand my point...  You don't have to have a short barrel on the receiver for it to be registered as a SBR.  If I had a SBR (like my Mini UZI) I can use it with an 18-inch barrel if I wish and the gun is still as SBR because of the way it is registered.

The same would apply to say an M-16 if a person was to pull out the M-16 fire control parts and put in AR-15 components.  Just because the gunn can not shoot in full auto does not make the registered receiver M-16 a non-machinegun.

The forms define what they are.

QB, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

A non-licensee must file and have a Form 1 approved before he "makes" the SBR by assembling it in a configuration which meets the definition of an NFA item.

A licensee, OTOH, cannot file a Form 2 until after the NFA item has been manufactured. And to meet the definition of an SBR, it must be assembled with a barrel under 16". Until that assembly has been done, it is just like any other receiver and is not yet an SBR, and thus the 07/02 cannot legally file a Form 2 for it.

Now, all an 07/02 has to do it pin on a sub-16" upper, file the Form 2, and then remove the upper and sell the receiver as a stand-alone unit. You are correct, the receiver is the registered part ... but an 07/02 can't register it until after it's in SBR config.

Read the Form 2 at titleii.com: www.atf.treas.gov/forms/pdfs/f53202.pdf

It requires that the 07/02 list the date of manufacture, and states: UNDER PENALTIES OF PERJURY, I DECLARE that I have examined this notice of firearms manufactured, reactivated or imported and, to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is true, correct and complete.

This is much like the situation with RDIAS and RLLs -- BATFE says that you must remove any NFA parts, like sub-16" barrels (and in the case of RDIAS, the FA fire-control parts) before you remove the registered conversion device. Now, unless an LE agent is standing over you watching the order in which you disassemble the host gun, I can't imagine how you could be prosecuted. Nevertheless, BATFE's rules are federal law, until challenged in court.

An 07/02 manufacturer does have standing for that court challenge -- but until that happens, filing a Form 2 without first manufacturing the item in NFA configuration could be considered perjury -- swearing that you have done something which you have not.

That's my take, FWIW.
3/21/2008 10:15:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Interestting and I will need to make a call to check if I need to buy an upper to go with my lower then?  Not a big deal in the big picture but not something I had planned for either.

The problem is in the certification however, not really the registration.
3/21/2008 10:54:06 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
Interestting and I will need to make a call to check if I need to buy an upper to go with my lower then?  Not a big deal in the big picture but not something I had planned for either.

The problem is in the certification however, not really the registration.

There is no need for you to buy an upper. Just as long as MGI pinned on a short upper for the sixty seconds it takes to fill out the Form 2, and then took it off, it's completely legal for you to buy (and them to sell you) just the lower. Once registered via a Form 2, an SBR does not have to stay in NFA configuration; it just must have been assembled in NFA configuration before the Form 2 is filed.

On a related note, you may be aware that before the May 19, 1986 ban took effect, BATFE was buried in Form 2's for MGs, and they later sent teams to 07/02s to examine the guns they registered in that rush. Thousands and thousands of MGs were disallowed because, BATFE said, they were not sufficiently completed to meet the criteria as NFA firearms prior to May 19.

AFAIK, BATFE never prosecuted the 07/02s for registering incomplete firearms, but they did remove those MGs from the NFA Registry. For "not completed in time" MGs that were sold as transferables after May 19 but before the inspection squads showed up, to my knowledge BATFE allowed all the present owners to keep them, though in a few cases they did reclassify them as post-'86 dealer samples for subsequent transfers (which really killed the resale value).

The biggest issue here is that new 07/02s should understand these weird technical requirements, so that they meet the letter of the law. If they advertise, or tell customers, that they are not assembling them correctly before filing the F2, they are admitting a violation .... and BATFE diligently searches for such violations at license renewal time.
Armory Sponsor