Armory Sponsor
Posted: 2/8/2003 7:28:45 AM EDT
| How many hoops do I have to jump through so that I can buy a post-86 machinegun? I'm planning on getting my FFL anyway, so that's not a problem. I can get at least 2 people to sign off on a demo letter so that isn't a problem either. What are the steps in between? |
if i rember rite i "standard" ffl is a type 1 alows sales of non NFA weapons. a NFA dealer would be a type 7 ffl and is $500 a year(reduced for first year sales)a manaufcter of NFA weapons would be a sot another $500/y |
that just goes to show you that you should not try to by pass the law. |
Doesn't the corporation still need to get approvals and likely demonstrate a need to possess? Such as guarding something of immense value or related to national security, etc? |
I'm not sure. I have heard that it is simply a patnership in ownership of the weapons. I may be misinformed, it would not be the first time. |
If you just want a few NFA weapons for personal use, post-samples are NOT the way to go. To get post-samples, you need to have the FFL & SOT, which require proper zoning and actual business. BATF will pull your FFL and/or SOT if you can't show you're actually doing business that requires them, or if it looks like you just got the license to enhance your personal collection. Since getting a license can also be used to circumvent paying transfer taxes, you can also open yourself up to charges of tax evasion. As far as obtaining post-samples, you'll need the departmental letter requesting a demonstartion of each particular weapon, and BATF has been cracking down on the transfer of post-samples of dubious value (anything beltfed will probably raise red flags at BATF). And don't forget, if you give up (or lose) the FFL and/or SOT, you must sell, turn-in or destroy any post-samples on your license BEFORE the license lapses. If you can't get a signoff, you can form a corporation and purchase transferable NFA weapons as corporate assets. You still have to do the usual form 4, but as a corporation, you don't have to submit fingerprints or get a CLEO sign-off. The corporation MUST stay valid. If the corporation is dissolved or invalidated for any reason, you are then unlawfully in possession of NFA weapons (the corporation owns them, not you). As a corporation buying transferable NFA weapons, you need not have any special reason for owning them. Actually, even an individual who wants to own NFA weapons only needs a minimal reason - as long as (a) its not illegal or indicates potential illegality on your part, and (b) is enough that your CLEO will approve the form you should be approved. On my form 4's I usually state my reason for possession as "the pursuit of happiness". A friend of mine has used simply "EXCITEMENT!!!" as the reason he needs a 20mm Lahti anti-tank gun. For my next NFA item I'm going to try "because chicks dig it" as the reason I need a supressor. |
| Shaggy, does the corporation have to be formed specifically around firearms or can it be ANY corporation? If I own Mike's Hot Dog Stand, Inc. and it is incorporated as a sole proprietorship the corp. can buy the pre-86 toys without any other aspect of the corp. having to do with law enforcement/military? |
|
ANY corporation is acceptable, even LLC. Clause was implemented to allow strikebreakers to be well armed. I am part owner of a corporation named AWMS that has a type 07 FFL & SOT. We don't need to transfer in Post May Samples, we can manufacture them. No permission required, just file appropriate form within 24 hours of completion of the item. ANY FFL other than C&R (03) may add a SOT by paying the tax. (Subject to local law.) That is all a SOT really is, a tax return. An 01 FFL may buy and sell but not manufacture. An 07 may buy, sell AND manufacture (responsible to pay excise tax). An SOT may ALSO deal in NFA items other than destructive devices (another class license). Importers are a separate class. SOT holder can have neat, inexpensive toys. HOWEVER, it must be run as a business with the clear intent to make money. ATF checks on that to keep people from using the license to merely further their hobby or allow them to avoid transfer taxes. An 01 FFL WITHOUT an SOT may engage in the gunsmithing business, including NFA, according to Bardwell. I have not located that in ATF regs but there are many obscure interpretations. I continue to study...... Took 7 months to get our FFL due to problems in Atlanta Licensing Center. Required that I contact my Congressman. Not a fun experience!! Have $650. in fees to the Feds (FFL = $150, SOT = $500.) plus local vendor's license ($25.), zoning hearing ($50.), alarm cost, legal fees, corporate fees and taxes. Above does not include tools, sandblaster, air compressor, park tanks, stainless blackening tanks, heaters, mill, lathe etc, etc. Not a small undertaking so consider what you are getting into. I have put a lot of effort into this and no small amount of $$. We DO intend to make money. I have a small machine shop and can make silencers (suppressors) and repair machine guns, semis and pistols. We have several cops among us and will be doing some armorer work for local law enforcement. Transfers of guns and NFA items will generate a little traffic but not much profit. Can do refinish work such as park (zinc and manganese dioxide), teflon-moly, black stainless, etc. Currently sub out blueing to a friend. To be honest, refinish is VERY labor intensive and somewhat limited in profit potential. |
|
Groovy. Well once I get out of law school, get a job and get some steady income, etc. etc., I have this pipe dream about manufacturing fire control groups as replacement parts for pre-86 NFA guns. I'm 99% sure that I'll incorporate, either by myself, or with others, for liability and other financial reasons, so this will fit right in. There are alot of pre-86 guns that are fairly hard on their fire control parts. If you go to the subguns board you will see alot of people with Mac10s and 11s bitching about the soft, improperly heat-treated triggers and sears. Right now they are having to replace factory fire control parts every 1,500 to 3,000 rounds, and there are horror stories about guys who've had runaway guns, for example, with fewer than 500 rounds down the pipe. When your toy shoots 30 rounds in 3 seconds, 1,500 rounds doesn't take very long at all. Same story goes for other types with fast rates of fire, and even some others that don't even shoot very fast, like some of the Uzis and Thompsons. Sooner or later SOMEONE will begin making high quality replacement parts for the registered receiver guns, because right now they are all at least 17 years old and alot of those receivers have many, MANY rounds through them. Might as well be me.... |
Armory Sponsor