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Posted: 9/5/2010 10:03:29 AM EDT
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I'm looking into becoming a "kitchen table" dealer when we move. I'm really interested in going the 01FFL, Class 3 SOT route. Since I would not be involved in manufacturing would I be liable and required to register for ITAR? |
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Quoted: Quoted: depends on who you get to answer the phone at BATF.....risky business for sure. Why? He is wanting to be a 01 dealer. Not an 02 manufacturer. 01= not making any items of war. There for not required to pay for ITAR. That was my understanding as well. It seems to make the most sense I've learned, however, that when it comes to the ATF I should not expect things to make sense all of the time. |
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Quoted: depends on who you get to answer the phone at BATF.....risky business for sure. Don't call BATFE about State Department regulations. As for the OP, whether or not you need to register with ITAR has nothing to do with your FFL status, it is a State Department thing. http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/registration/index.html For example, you mightnot have an FFL at all but if you make NightVision gear, you need to register. |
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Quoted: Quoted: depends on who you get to answer the phone at BATF.....risky business for sure. Don't call BATFE about State Department regulations. As for the OP, whether or not you need to register with ITAR has nothing to do with your FFL status, it is a State Department thing. http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/registration/index.html For example, you mightnot have an FFL at all but if you make NightVision gear, you need to register. I understand. I was asking in the context of being an SOT as I had read some...debate...about the issue. I figured that if you do not have a manufacturer FFL/SOT then you are not liable. Just wanted to double check. |
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Doing much reading (and still reading more) the 01 is not subjected to ITAR since your not manufacturing. Note that buying stripped lowers and installing LPKs is considered manufacturing..
If you had gotten a 07, then you might be hit with paying the ITAR fees. But I heard there might be an exemption.. which I'm trying to read up more about. |
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As an 01FFL, you can only apply for the 03SOT... which only allows you to deal and gunsmith NFA stuff.
To Mfg, you'd need to be an 07FFL and apply for the 02SOT... then register with ITAR and pay the $2250 fee. I recently found this out by mistake... and thanks to a few sharp AFRCOM members, I got my dumb ass straightened right out. 
I'm an 01FFL... but (mistakenly) applied for the 02SOT (mfg) instead of the 03SOT. A quick and pleasant phone call to Amy at BATF in Atlanta got the problem squared away via fax machine. 
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Quoted: If you had gotten a 07, then you might be hit with paying the ITAR fees. But I heard there might be an exemption.. which I'm trying to read up more about. Don't make it harder than it is. Either you are engaged in the business of MFG/EXP/etc stuff on the Munitions list or you are not. |
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Only applies if you're going to try to export anything on the United States Restricted Munitions List –– anything that might have a dual-use (i.e., a sporting goods item that has military application).
If you're selling at home, no requirement (you're not doing international business). |
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Quoted:
Only applies if you're going to try to export manufacture anything on the United States Restricted Munitions List –– anything that might have a dual-use (i.e., a sporting goods item that has military application). If you're selling at home, no requirement (you're not doing international business). Fixed. Export isn't the issue (and it costs even more on top of the registration fee for an export license). If you're a Type 06, 07, or 10 FFL you need to register. http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/registration/index.html All manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of defense articles, defense services, or related technical data, as defined on the United States Munitions List (Part 121 of the ITAR) (PDF, 7MB), are required to register with DDTC. Registration is primarily a means to provide the U.S. Government with necessary information on who is involved in certain manufacturing and exporting activities. Registration does not confer any export rights or privileges, but is a precondition for the issuance of any license or other approval for export.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Only applies if you're going to try to export manufacture anything on the United States Restricted Munitions List –– anything that might have a dual-use (i.e., a sporting goods item that has military application). If you're selling at home, no requirement (you're not doing international business). Fixed. Export isn't the issue (and it costs even more on top of the registration fee for an export license). If you're a Type 06, 07, or 10 FFL you need to register. http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/registration/index.html All manufacturers, exporters, and brokers of defense articles, defense services, or related technical data, as defined on the United States Munitions List (Part 121 of the ITAR) (PDF, 7MB), are required to register with DDTC. Registration is primarily a means to provide the U.S. Government with necessary information on who is involved in certain manufacturing and exporting activities. Registration does not confer any export rights or privileges, but is a precondition for the issuance of any license or other approval for export. To add on, just because you don't export or manufacture, doesn't mean you can ignore ITAR. |
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Reading the following makes me cringe- "Registration is primarily a means to provide the U.S. Government with necessary information on who is involved in certain manufacturing and exporting activities." For those that have NO desire to export anything- WHY!!!!! And the last time I checked- the ATF knows who is a manufacturer. They gave them the dang license. Someone should tell the left hand aka the State Dept who has ZERO legal right to control or tax a domestic non exporting business- and the right hand aka the BATFE/DOJ.
What a joke. |
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Quoted: Anyone look into the exemption any further? Or are we just wasting time? What exemption? Have your read the items on the Munitions List? Are you going to be in the business of MFG or exporting any of that stuff? If all you are going to do is make sporting shotguns, then you do not have to register. Those are exempt. |
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Quoted: Thats not what ITAR told me, they said all 07 mfg had to reg and pay the 2250 per year.Only applies if you're going to try to export anything on the United States Restricted Munitions List –– anything that might have a dual-use (i.e., a sporting goods item that has military application). If you're selling at home, no requirement (you're not doing international business). I said i am not exporting anything. They said doesn't matter. I said if i don't export what is the fine for not registering? they told me there isn't one, I said thank you and good bye, the guy on the phone said wait sir, what it your company name address, i hung up |
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Quoted:
I said if i don't export what is the fine for not registering? they told me there isn't one, I said thank you and good bye, the guy on the phone said wait sir, what it your company name address, i hung up But not registering could cost you your license, because one of the conditions of your FFL is that you are in compliance with all local, state and federal requirements including licenses, permits and registrations. |
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Quoted: I don't make shotguns, I assemble shotguns into NFA configurations Quoted: I said if i don't export what is the fine for not registering? they told me there isn't one, I said thank you and good bye, the guy on the phone said wait sir, what it your company name address, i hung up But not registering could cost you your license, because one of the conditions of your FFL is that you are in compliance with all local, state and federal requirements including licenses, permits and registrations. They think they do because of the 18" and over rule but they don't, the NFA does. They don't cover this, the NFA does, it's not part of ITAR and the state dept. I need the 07 to re MFG into NFA but they have no verbiage to include what we do. I pay 500.00 per year ($1000.00 this year coming) for our SOT I have to pay 11 % excise tax on remanufactured shotguns into NFA Now ITAR thinks they get a bite too? This is all a moot point for us anyway, the first contract for export is coming for a few over seas SWAT units so we will get caught up in ITAR anyway. |
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Just because someone has an 07 does not mean they have to register with ITAR. I cannot wait until someone takes them on in court and beats their asses. Taxing companies who do not export is insane. Making them pay $2250.00 to $2750.00 per year is taxation without representation The regs say suppressor MFG are suppose to reg even if they don't export? |
We also largely have Bush Jr. to blame for this. The ITAR fees were much less until he gave the ITAR folks a directive to become "self supporting". 
Quoted:
Just because someone has an 07 does not mean they have to register with ITAR. I cannot wait until someone takes them on in court and beats their asses. Taxing companies who do not export is insane. Making them pay $2250.00 to $2750.00 per year is taxation without representation The regs say suppressor MFG are suppose to reg even if they don't export? |
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Quoted: After much (hours & hours) of research I finally have the answer from a very prestigious law firm in NYC that does ITAR work and customs.Quoted: I said if i don't export what is the fine for not registering? they told me there isn't one, I said thank you and good bye, the guy on the phone said wait sir, what it your company name address, i hung up But not registering could cost you your license, because one of the conditions of your FFL is that you are in compliance with all local, state and federal requirements including licenses, permits and registrations. There is absolutely no penalty for not registering with ITAR if you do not export or sell to someone who exports. The Attorney I spoke with says The state dept has been using this tactic for years now trying to scare people into registering. I knew there was a reason I couldn't find a criminal statute on not registering. There isn't one. There is no civil penalty either. If you export and don't register you are not in compliance. That is where the big fines and jail time can come into play. I wouldn't want to post the law firm here but I might put Aimless in touch with them so he could verify what I was told. |
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