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3/2/2013 10:23:22 AM EDT
Some guide in this world of the M-16... I have thought about getting one but i am wondering if it is just the lower that makes makes the gun full auto or of it takes a special upper to. I figured i might ask. I would like to know more.
3/2/2013 11:18:16 AM EDT
[#1]
It takes both. The upper has to have a m-16 bolt carrier and the lower has to have a m-16 fire fire control group and auto sear installed.
That way of going about it you would need a transferrable registered receiver.
Another way would be a registered drop in auto sear. (you will still need the m-16 fire control group)
The last way is a registered lightning link. (that only requires a SP1 style bolt carrier I believe)
3/3/2013 11:00:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Thank you! This helps a lot.
3/3/2013 10:02:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Also, don't forget about the $12000.00 minimum.
Sometimes a RLL can be found for 8-9k.
Check subguns.com for prices on registered receivers, RLL, and RDIAS.
Be prepared for chest-wallet pains!
3/4/2013 3:40:55 AM EDT
[#4]
Check out the tacked thread "RDIAS vs RLL vs RR - pros and cons".  It's right here in the M-16 forum.  Also look at the AR15 FAQ on biggerhammer.net

As already stated, with M-16s the lower, or RDIAS, or LL are the registered parts.  Dotgov considers the registered part, all by it's lonesome, to be a MG.  

Not all 5.56 uppers work with whatever registered MG part you select.  For instance, a Colt M-16 RR will not accept an unaltered Colt SP1 upper lacking autosear cutout and having an offset large front TD pin.  

It's not just uppers that must be compatible.  Innards matter, too.  Large cutout Colt AR15 carriers won't enable FA in a RR.  And the M16 hammer differs from the AR15 version.  Etc.

If this is your first venture into the world of NFA I strongly advise first familiarizing yourself with James Bardwell's NFA FAQ,  http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/nfa_faqhtml.html   The other NFA subforums here on arfcom are also very good.  Do not be afraid to ask questions before you plunk your money down.

Sam
3/4/2013 6:23:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Check out the tacked thread "RDIAS vs RLL vs RR - pros and cons".  It's right here in the M-16 forum.  Also look at the AR15 FAQ on biggerhammer.net

As already stated, with M-16s the lower, or RDIAS, or LL are the registered parts.  Dotgov considers the registered part, all by it's lonesome, to be a MG.  

Not all 5.56 uppers work with whatever registered MG part you select.  For instance, a Colt M-16 RR will not accept an unaltered Colt SP1 upper lacking autosear cutout and having an offset large front TD pin.  

It's not just uppers that must be compatible.  Innards matter, too.  Large cutout Colt AR15 carriers won't enable FA in a RR.  And the M16 hammer differs from the AR15 version.  Etc.

If this is your first venture into the world of NFA I strongly advise first familiarizing yourself with James Bardwell's NFA FAQ,  http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/nfa_faqhtml.html   The other NFA subforums here on arfcom are also very good.  Do not be afraid to ask questions before you plunk your money down.

Sam


Hello! I am also Sam! Anyways, what i want is to have a lower to be able to use capadable uppers on. Also, in terms of having spare parts for the lower and uppers, what should i have on hand? I do like to have spare parts just in case. I want to just start with a regular 16" upper then later on get SBR'd uppers. So if there is a place to tell me what i need to get for a MG, that would be nice. I will definetely be looking into what you have provided since this will be my first rodeo for an NFA item.

Also, don't forget about the $12000.00 minimum.
Sometimes a RLL can be found for 8-9k.
Check subguns.com for prices on registered receivers, RLL, and RDIAS.
Be prepared for chest-wallet pains!


Cant wait!

3/4/2013 10:29:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
what i want is to have a lower to be able to use capadable uppers on. Also, in terms of having spare parts for the lower and uppers, what should i have on hand? I do like to have spare parts just in case. I want to just start with a regular 16" upper then later on get SBR'd uppers. So if there is a place to tell me what i need to get for a MG, that would be nice.


Any of the transferrable M-16 options will allow you to have multiple uppers.  You will need to decide how you wish to proceed.  If you go through past threads on this forum you can start developing preferences.  

Mags and ammo.  Other essential spare parts for uppers mostly means BCGs.  Truth is the carriers last forever.  So you can get by with dedicated complete bolts (plus cam pin, firing pin, retaining pin) for each upper.  One extra carrier or two, ditto for the charging handle.  Never hurts to have some extra extractors and extractor springs.

Did I mention mags and ammo?    

A complete lower parts kit is a good idea.  Maybe some additional hammer and disco springs.  If you have an AR15 (semi) on premises do not procure specific full auto lower parts (autosears, M16 hammers) yet.  Nor should you have NFA-length (less than 16") uppers until you have an approved M-16 form 4 in your hands.  Things like springs and non-NFA length uppers are fine.  Truth is, you can wait till the receiver's paperwork clears.

At this point what you need, more than parts, is to develop a knowledge base.  Hit the forum threads, check out the tacked threads.  Don't rush into a 16 purchase...........well, except for ammo and mags.

Sam  

3/4/2013 12:30:56 PM EDT
[#7]
If I was entering the M16 market right now, I'd buy the most mint genuine colt m16A1 I could find and call it good.

The clones were an attractive option a year ago, but now that they are pushing up towards $15K or $16K, they can keep 'em.

IMHO
3/4/2013 2:24:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
what i want is to have a lower to be able to use capadable uppers on. Also, in terms of having spare parts for the lower and uppers, what should i have on hand? I do like to have spare parts just in case. I want to just start with a regular 16" upper then later on get SBR'd uppers. So if there is a place to tell me what i need to get for a MG, that would be nice.


Any of the transferrable M-16 options will allow you to have multiple uppers.  You will need to decide how you wish to proceed.  If you go through past threads on this forum you can start developing preferences.  

Mags and ammo.  Other essential spare parts for uppers mostly means BCGs.  Truth is the carriers last forever.  So you can get by with dedicated complete bolts (plus cam pin, firing pin, retaining pin) for each upper.  One extra carrier or two, ditto for the charging handle.  Never hurts to have some extra extractors and extractor springs.

Did I mention mags and ammo?    

A complete lower parts kit is a good idea.  Maybe some additional hammer and disco springs.  If you have an AR15 (semi) on premises do not procure specific full auto lower parts (autosears, M16 hammers) yet.  Nor should you have NFA-length (less than 16") uppers until you have an approved M-16 form 4 in your hands.  Things like springs and non-NFA length uppers are fine.  Truth is, you can wait till the receiver's paperwork clears.

At this point what you need, more than parts, is to develop a knowledge base.  Hit the forum threads, check out the tacked threads.  Don't rush into a 16 purchase...........well, except for ammo and mags.

Sam  



Thank you! I will look into the forum here and get some background on it all. Though i am working on Ammo and mags.

If I was entering the M16 market right now, I'd buy the most mint genuine colt m16A1 I could find and call it good.

The clones were an attractive option a year ago, but now that they are pushing up towards $15K or $16K, they can keep 'em.

IMHO


Just because im new, are the Real Colt lowers (and gun of course) better than the clones? And do the authentic colt lowers also work with other uppers as well?
3/4/2013 3:38:38 PM EDT
[#9]
well, the clones vary in quality, fit and finish and all that.   some of them are actually colt lowers that were converted

the thing is, two years ago a M16A1 was around $16K and clones were going for 9K.

now that the clones are pushing 16K,  I would just pay the extra for the real M16A1.  


these guns are changing from high end range toys to bona-fide collectables, that's two completely different mindsets on how things are valued

in other words, the future resale is going to vary a lot more when the richie rich guys are buying these as investments


there was a time when it was hard to sell a hemi charger, it was just an old car that got 6 mpg, the muscle car guys didn't want them.  

now its a collectors item and rich baby boomers just want them to sit in their garage, a hemi is the extreme "exotic", the rare prize
3/4/2013 3:50:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
well, the clones vary in quality, fit and finish and all that.   some of them are actually colt lowers that were converted

the thing is, two years ago a M16A1 was around $16K and clones were going for 9K.

now that the clones are pushing 16K,  I would just pay the extra for the real M16A1.  


these guns are changing from high end range toys to bona-fide collectables, that's two completely different mindsets on how things are valued

in other words, the future resale is going to vary a lot more when the richie rich guys are buying these as investments


there was a time when it was hard to sell a hemi charger, it was just an old car that got 6 mpg, the muscle car guys didn't want them.  

now its a collectors item and rich baby boomers just want them to sit in their garage, a hemi is the extreme "exotic", the rare prize


Ok. I gotcha. It makes sense.
3/5/2013 3:22:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
these guns are changing from high end range toys to bona-fide collectables, that's two completely different mindsets on how things are valued

in other words, the future resale is going to vary a lot more when the richie rich guys are buying these as investments


This is exactly as I see it, too.  A registered pony is a piece of history - just like my 1866 Winchester.  

The 16 market, at this time, is valuing conversions and sears almost the same - occasionally more - than registered receivers.  It's as though Cobra kit cars are bringing as much as original AC Cobras.  Granted, there are far more kit cars than originals.  And the reverse is probably true with 16s.  But a lifetime of collecting firearms of various types tells me the registered pony is the better way to go over the long haul.

To be fair, though, not everyone puts significant weight on "collector" value.  What could be more versatile as a range toy than a sear?  And while I've shot many cases through my 16 RRs, a sear gives more abuse-latitude.  If trigger-slap means nothing to you, best be using a RDIAS.    

Bottom line:  be clear as to your motivation to own a 16.

Sam

3/5/2013 5:42:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
these guns are changing from high end range toys to bona-fide collectables, that's two completely different mindsets on how things are valued

in other words, the future resale is going to vary a lot more when the richie rich guys are buying these as investments


This is exactly as I see it, too.  A registered pony is a piece of history - just like my 1866 Winchester.  

The 16 market, at this time, is valuing conversions and sears almost the same - occasionally more - than registered receivers.  It's as though Cobra kit cars are bringing as much as original AC Cobras.  Granted, there are far more kit cars than originals.  And the reverse is probably true with 16s.  But a lifetime of collecting firearms of various types tells me the registered pony is the better way to go over the long haul.

To be fair, though, not everyone puts significant weight on "collector" value.  What could be more versatile as a range toy than a sear?  And while I've shot many cases through my 16 RRs, a sear gives more abuse-latitude.  If trigger-slap means nothing to you, best be using a RDIAS.    

Bottom line:  be clear as to your motivation to own a 16.

Sam



I want 1 or 2 for collection purposes and 1 or 2 for range fun. What would be the suggestion. (On the range set, i would like the best possible.)
As i am new to this, what is a sear, RR, and a RDIAS?

3/5/2013 5:52:56 AM EDT
[#13]



Quoted:



I want 1 or 2 for collection purposes and 1 or 2 for range fun. What would be the suggestion. (On the range set, i would like the best possible.)

As i am new to this, what is a sear, RR, and a RDIAS?





A registered sear and RDIAS (Registerd Drop In Auto Sear) are the same thing.  It's a piece of metal that is placed in the AR15 lower receiver that mimic's the role of a real seal in a M16.  The RDIAS is the registered part and is considered the machine gun.  Whats nice about them is that the RDIAS can be used in any AR15 just by switching a few parts.



A RR is a registered receiver.  The received is the registered machine gun.  Its the true way to get an "official" M16.  



http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_23/199903_RDIAS_vs_RLL_vs_RR___pros_and_cons.html&page=1



 
3/5/2013 10:20:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Don't forget the Lightening Link option... I haven't seen a lot lately (except that crazy priced one) but it's the least expensive option to M16.
I paid around $6K at early last year, but I'm sure the price went up quite a bit.
Works like a charm and KNS protector will take care of the weakest link of LL.
Now, I just need to make it work with .22 kit....
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