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Posted: 1/18/2011 6:11:43 PM EDT
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THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT SUPPRESSED RIMFIRES. POST PICS! TELL US WHAT YOU HAVE! ![]() I usually save, scrap, and scrounge so that I can buy one really nice firearm per year. Usually this occurs during the early springtime, so with January peaking, I'm starting to think about what I'd like to get this year. This year I think I want to get into the NFA game. Specifically, I want a silenced gun. I am also itching to try out a 10/22. I already have a lot of rimfire firearms, but not one single example from Ruger or their iconic 10/22. What I want to get: Quiet as possible Reliable Accurate Well built Price is not a concern (unless you start suggesting something like the Norrell full-auto 10/22) EDIT: I may be open to thread-on suppressors now, so show me what you got! Rimfire suppressors are not as expensive as I had thought for the most part. Is integrally suppressed the quietest way to go? I don't really want or need to move a can from one gun to anther. As long as I have my "quiet" gun, I'll be happy. Currently, when I need quiet, I reach for my Marlin 39A and shoot CB Shorts out of it. I'd like to get this quiet or more quiet. Is there any downside of going with integrally suppressed? Who makes a good integrally suppressed 10/22? I know I need one that has removable baffles. I also want to make sure that whatever I get does NOT have a "first shot crack" This is what I'm thinking right now: Gemtech Oasis. Has removable baffles, Houge overmold stock, picatinny rail, and looks damn good. Gemtech also removes the tension block system, which is a plus. It is what my local class III pimp is recommending to me. I know Gemtech is a highly regarded brand too. I need opinions and what to watch out for in my search.... So.....Show me what `ya got and tell me about it! |
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Quoted: I have an integral 10/22 barrel from Thompson Machine. It is quiet, but not nearly as quiet as my bolt action Marlin with a thread on can. This is due to the action noise of the 10/22. I think the Gemtech Oasis will require you to use subsonic ammo because the barrel isn't ported. Not really an issue as long as you know about it. I prefer a ported barrel integral simply because it allows me to use bulk 22lr ammo. IMO, the best company to do integral work is TBA suppressors. They make a CZ bolt action that is integral and about as quiet as you can get. You are correct in requiring a take apart can or integral. All that said, I highly recommend a thread on can for .22lr. The better ones will be as quiet as an integral and you have the option of having multiple host weapons. IMO the only reason to have an integral 22 rifle is if you must have a 16" barrel that looks like a standard rifle. http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/autumnsongmt/22.jpg Good info. Thank you. I have no specific need to have the barrel look like a standard rifle. The entire point is to shoot away from the range, but if I did take it out to a firing line, a threaded-on suppressor typically attracts lookie-loos (like me ). I do like the integrated and finished look though. The point on the ability to use standard ammo is very helpful. Just noticed that TBA has action locks too. That is an attractive feature. Make the semi-auto as quiet as a bolt action.Keep `em coming! |
| YHM and Liberty also have integral for the 10/22. And an integral will be quieter than a regular thread on suppressor. It will be a little bit louder than a bolt action since it has the noise of the action but you can use your thumb to keep the bolt from opening on a 10/22 |
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I do not have a suppressed 10/22, but I do have a little input that you may find helpful
As other have said, a suppressed 10/22 can be very quiet. And as people have said, the action working (or trying to) will make noise. Personally, I would splurge a little an get one of the factory threaded CZ Bolt Action rifles, and add a can onto that. I have read the CZ's are phenominal rifles. I do understand what you mean when you say you dont want to draw attention to yourself, and an intergrally suppressed 10/22 will prevent the "on-lookers". |
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Quoted: I have a CZ-452 but it is the mil trainer. I always could find room for another I suppose. Heavy barrel, set up for optics, etc, etc. Except for my CZ and a few cheap Marlins, most of my rimfires are all deep in the "classic" category, and the ghost of John Moses Browning, Sam Colt, and the Brothers Wesson would cut off my Johnson while I slept if I threaded any of them. Any threaded gun would be a newly bought gun (not a bad thing I do not have a suppressed 10/22, but I do have a little input that you may find helpful As other have said, a suppressed 10/22 can be very quiet. And as people have said, the action working (or trying to) will make noise. Personally, I would splurge a little an get one of the factory threaded CZ Bolt Action rifles, and add a can onto that. I have read the CZ's are phenominal rifles. I do understand what you mean when you say you dont want to draw attention to yourself, and an intergrally suppressed 10/22 will prevent the "on-lookers". I'm reading that some suppressed 10/22's will accept devices that will prevent the action from cycling which would make them effectively a straight-pull bolt-action, and hence, very very quiet. I know that I might be trying to have my cake and eat it too, but I don't foresee a need to move my can around from gun to gun. If anything, this will open me up to larger suppressors such as for my AR or handguns. Let's just see what everyone has got in the line of suppressed rimfires (integral and strap-on) and I'll do some reading based on whatever seems to tickle me. That way I can get started on my NFA paperwork in about 4 - 6 weeks. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a CZ-452 but it is the mil trainer. I always could find room for another I suppose. Heavy barrel, set up for optics, etc, etc. Except for my CZ and a few cheap Marlins, most of my rimfires are all deep in the "classic" category, and the ghost of John Moses Browning, Sam Colt, and the Brothers Wesson would cut off my Johnson while I slept if I threaded any of them. Any threaded gun would be a newly bought gun (not a bad thing I do not have a suppressed 10/22, but I do have a little input that you may find helpful As other have said, a suppressed 10/22 can be very quiet. And as people have said, the action working (or trying to) will make noise. Personally, I would splurge a little an get one of the factory threaded CZ Bolt Action rifles, and add a can onto that. I have read the CZ's are phenominal rifles. I do understand what you mean when you say you dont want to draw attention to yourself, and an intergrally suppressed 10/22 will prevent the "on-lookers". I'm reading that some suppressed 10/22's will accept devices that will prevent the action from cycling which would make them effectively a straight-pull bolt-action, and hence, very very quiet. I know that I might be trying to have my cake and eat it too, but I don't foresee a need to move my can around from gun to gun. If anything, this will open me up to larger suppressors such as for my AR or handguns. Let's just see what everyone has got in the line of suppressed rimfires (integral and strap-on) and I'll do some reading based on whatever seems to tickle me. That way I can get started on my NFA paperwork in about 4 - 6 weeks. I recall reading somewhere that this causes a change in the point of impact for a 10/22. You might want to do a bit more research on it. |
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Quoted:
YHM and Liberty also have integral for the 10/22. And an integral will be quieter than a regular thread on suppressor. It will be a little bit louder than a bolt action since it has the noise of the action but you can use your thumb to keep the bolt from opening on a 10/22 Hopefully the YHM integral is quieter than the YHM thread on 22lr cans. The Mite is one of the loudest .22 cans out there. |
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I have a bolt lock device on my ruger 10/22 that "locks" the bolt forward and prevents it from cycling. it does indeed make the shot quieter by removing the action noise.
but to be honest, I rarely use it unless I want to show "hollywood quiet" to a buddy. otherwise mine doesnt get used much. seems to me, with a quality bolt buffer installed, action noise is decreased dramatically. I'm not sure of what the "real world use" of a bolt lock is. if you're shooting live targets (squirrels for example), the whack of the bullet hitting the squirrels buddy next to him is much louder than the action of the gun cycling 25 yards away. some people claim "accuracy by not allowing the bolt to cycle". well, ok. then just feed the rifle one shot at a time. besides, my 10/22s are plenty accurate in semi auto mode. YMMV |
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I will give you my advice based on experience.
I own three integrally suppressed 10/22’s, and they are all pretty quiet and one is quieter than the others but they are still pretty close in sound suppression. I have seen and handled and heard several other name brands. The best quality build I have seen comes from TBA out of Ashland, Va. I also own an integrally suppressed CZ452 bolt action rifle. After seeing TBA’s 10/22 I had him build the CZ. You may have seen photos on the web as I have posted it several places. It is a beautiful piece of workmanship. Here is what I think. Which ever you choose, a 10/22 or a CZ, just go ahead and SBR the gun from the get go. Why? Because you want the gun to come completely apart to clean everything from the expansion chamber, internal ports, all the way to the baffles and end cap. If you don't SBR the gun the internal barrel will either have to be 16 inches long, or if the barrel is short inside the tube, the tube will have to be blind pinned and will not slip off the barrel. You will not be able to adequately clean the ports or the expansion chamber. An SBR integral allows you to have a barrel inside the tube that is less than 16 inches, thereby allowing for more baffles out in front to the end cap. This will bring the sound down significantly. If it is blind pinned due to a short barrel and a long baffle stack, the gun will be quieter, but you still will not be able to adequately clean it. So make sure the gun comes completely apart for cleaning. Stainless is better, but blued is beautiful but requires more maintenance. A 10/22 is a fun plinker, and can be pretty accurate, but the CZ will be more accurate and quieter. [email protected] Feel free to email me if I can be of help. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
... After seeing TBA’s 10/22 I had him build the CZ. You may have seen photos on the web as I have posted it several places. It is a beautiful piece of workmanship. ... A lot of us missed them for sure, so please post here. Agreed regarding an integral bolt gun - mine is an early version of the LRM Vidar and it makes all 5 of my screw-on .22 cans sound downright loud in comparison. It's spooky, Hollywood quiet and a joy to shoot. Although this one doesn't, current versions of the LRM-Tech Vidar do come apart for cleaning and are available for the 77/22 and 10/22. Ruger 77/22: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/parshooter/77-22.jpg Here is the CZ of which I spoke. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/CZIntegral1.jpg Here is my Johns Guns integral before baffle rebuild. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/802Integral35_.jpg Here is the CZ along side the Johns Guns after a K baffle rebuild. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/TIBBETTSvsTBA.jpg Here is a form 1 integral I made. I tried to copy a TBA unit, but mine is not as good. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Form1.jpg |
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Quoted:
mine is an early version of the LRM Vidar and it makes all 5 of my screw-on .22 cans sound downright loud in comparison. It's spooky, Hollywood quiet and a joy to shoot. Although this one doesn't, current versions of the LRM-Tech Vidar do come apart for cleaning and are available for the 77/22 and 10/22. This is the one I'm holding out for. Here's a post by Chuck from LRM about the new design. This was posted on another forum about 1 month ago... The original Vidar was totally sealed, welded. It's been my long held belief that any .22 can should be cleanable. In talking with various major manufacturers in the industry, they have all told me, repeatedly, that they always regretted it when they made a can that disassembled. Owners would invariably damage them in one way or another and expect them to be repaired for free. If the owner left the can unmolested and sent them in to be cleaned, then in most cases it could have been cleaned at little or no charge. It's easy to see how it can happen with several cans that require a jack screw to pull the baffles out, other mfrs advise using a dowel to drive the baffles out, etc. There are some people in this world that can break an anvil with a rubber mallet.
The plan for the release of the Vidar is for it to disassemble for cleaning, the trick is making it as simple and foolproof as possible while also meeting ATF regs. It has to be designed such that it won't allow the host firearm to fall into the SBR category when disassembled for cleaning. I also favor a design that doesn't require any special tools and if possible, no special custom machined wrenches. These invariably get lost. In addition, I want the tube to be sovereign, so no matter how far down the road, the barrel & baffle can be replaced, upgraded by any NFA mfr. or gunsmith. This for the most part means no welding. I've repaired a few older welded LRM Vidars that were physically damaged. The task was a daunting one because as you know, ATF states that the tube itself cannot be replaced without paying the tax again, new S/N etc.. It's been an R&D challenge, each feature has to be tested, revised, looked at from the view of person with no mechanical skills, fired to simulate real world conditions, and redesigned. Didn't mean to hijack this thread, lots more to it but this isn't the place. The Vidar is still 'quietly' around ;-) ––Chuck LRM-Tech At this point, it's any ones guess as to when this new model will be available but it sounds like it will be worth the wait IMO? |
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Quoted: ... At this point, it's any ones guess as to when this new model will be available but it sounds like it will be worth the wait IMO? I would think so, but then I'm biased from having the earlier one. Chuck has worked through most all of the refinements for v2.0 and should be about ready to go. I've seen some prototypes and they are sweet. He was working out the details of one modification that is unlike any other I've seen before. It's a functional improvement that is absolutely beneficial but that's about all I can say about it at the moment. Hope it won't be too much longer - I'm waiting on a couple of them myself, one for the 10/22 and another new model that he hasn't announced yet. |
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AutumnSong – We need to talk.
You seem to pose a question if an integral would be a tiny bit quieter than a muzzle can and would the cost justify buying one. First off only the owner knows if its cost is justifiable. Nobody is stuck with just one. A really good muzzle can is very quiet, congratulations on owning one. If you will note in the CZ photo I posted above, there is another CZ452 with a muzzle can. The suppressor in the photo is a SWR Spectre. All three of my 10/22 integrals stomp its ass, there is no contest, trust me on that. I also have an 8 inch custom ordered muzzle can with 11 K baffles. This muzzle can, on the threaded CZ, can hang with the integral 10/22’s but that muzzle can on the CZ is not quite as quiet. Now on to the CZ integral. It is hard to describe how bad the CZ integral beats my three 10/22 integrals, the difference is significant. This gun was built to my specifications based on what I had learned having owned several integrals. I feel very fortunate that I stumbled across what seems the perfect relationship between internal barrel length, and baffle stack length, etc. On several occasions I have had people standing right beside me when I fired the CZ, these people are suppressor owners. Not just one or two suppressors, but they own many suppressors. They have looked at me and asked “did you just fire a round?” I will reply, yes I did. Then these men will begin to giggle and want to shoot the gun. You know it is quiet, if the guy standing beside you has to ask if you fired a round. I am not exactly bragging, but merely trying to show that a good muzzle can, no matter how good, can not hang with a good integral. It seems that your integral has some problems. It can be fixed and be made significantly quieter. But to do it right, as I said before, the best integrals will also be short barrel rifles. So what is an extra $200 to SBR the receiver when you are playing this game? I sense you have a sealed integral with a significant amount of rounds through it. Am I right? Just a wild guess. It can be fixed. |
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AutumnSong – We need to talk. You seem to pose a question if an integral would be a tiny bit quieter than a muzzle can and would the cost justify buying one. First off only the owner knows if its cost is justifiable. Nobody is stuck with just one. A really good muzzle can is very quiet, congratulations on owning one. If you will note in the CZ photo I posted above, there is another CZ452 with a muzzle can. The suppressor in the photo is a SWR Spectre. All three of my 10/22 integrals stomp its ass, there is no contest, trust me on that. I also have an 8 inch custom ordered muzzle can with 11 K baffles. This muzzle can, on the threaded CZ, can hang with the integral 10/22’s but that muzzle can on the CZ is not quite as quiet. Now on to the CZ integral. It is hard to describe how bad the CZ integral beats my three 10/22 integrals, the difference is significant. This gun was built to my specifications based on what I had learned having owned several integrals. I feel very fortunate that I stumbled across what seems the perfect relationship between internal barrel length, and baffle stack length, etc. On several occasions I have had people standing right beside me when I fired the CZ, these people are suppressor owners. Not just one or two suppressors, but they own many suppressors. They have looked at me and asked “did you just fire a round?” I will reply, yes I did. Then these men will begin to giggle and want to shoot the gun. You know it is quiet, if the guy standing beside you has to ask if you fired a round. I am not exactly bragging, but merely trying to show that a good muzzle can, no matter how good, can not hang with a good integral. It seems that your integral has some problems. It can be fixed and be made significantly quieter. But to do it right, as I said before, the best integrals will also be short barrel rifles. So what is an extra $200 to SBR the receiver when you are playing this game? I sense you have a sealed integral with a significant amount of rounds through it. Am I right? Just a wild guess. It can be fixed. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough above. Sorry for any confusion. My 10/22 integral is not sealed and is IMO very quiet. I didn't mean to make it sound as if it isn't. I simply meant that with the bolt noise it is louder than my suppressed bolt action. If I hold the bolt closed it most definitely gets quieter and would be only very slightly louder than the suppressed bolt action. Since the OP posted pics of integral 10/22s I was just using them as a frame of reference. A 10/22 integral will always have bolt cycling noise. I also agree that a thread on can can't compare to the quietness of a good integral bolt action. I am only saying that at a certain point throwing another $600+(?) dollars into a rifle wouldn't get me a $600 quieter value. Like you say though, that is up to the buyer if the extra $ is worth it. I am amazed that your Spectre & CZ are louder than your 10/22s. How do you quiet the action noise on your integral 10/22s? My 10/22 integral has a bolt buffer and a ramped bolt but the cycling still "clacks" and makes it the loudest thing heard. You have some beautiful rifles, I now have integral envy. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
AutumnSong – We need to talk. You seem to pose a question if an integral would be a tiny bit quieter than a muzzle can and would the cost justify buying one. First off only the owner knows if its cost is justifiable. Nobody is stuck with just one. A really good muzzle can is very quiet, congratulations on owning one. If you will note in the CZ photo I posted above, there is another CZ452 with a muzzle can. The suppressor in the photo is a SWR Spectre. All three of my 10/22 integrals stomp its ass, there is no contest, trust me on that. I also have an 8 inch custom ordered muzzle can with 11 K baffles. This muzzle can, on the threaded CZ, can hang with the integral 10/22’s but that muzzle can on the CZ is not quite as quiet. Now on to the CZ integral. It is hard to describe how bad the CZ integral beats my three 10/22 integrals, the difference is significant. This gun was built to my specifications based on what I had learned having owned several integrals. I feel very fortunate that I stumbled across what seems the perfect relationship between internal barrel length, and baffle stack length, etc. On several occasions I have had people standing right beside me when I fired the CZ, these people are suppressor owners. Not just one or two suppressors, but they own many suppressors. They have looked at me and asked “did you just fire a round?” I will reply, yes I did. Then these men will begin to giggle and want to shoot the gun. You know it is quiet, if the guy standing beside you has to ask if you fired a round. I am not exactly bragging, but merely trying to show that a good muzzle can, no matter how good, can not hang with a good integral. It seems that your integral has some problems. It can be fixed and be made significantly quieter. But to do it right, as I said before, the best integrals will also be short barrel rifles. So what is an extra $200 to SBR the receiver when you are playing this game? I sense you have a sealed integral with a significant amount of rounds through it. Am I right? Just a wild guess. It can be fixed. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough above. Sorry for any confusion. My 10/22 integral is not sealed and is IMO very quiet. I didn't mean to make it sound as if it isn't. I simply meant that with the bolt noise it is louder than my suppressed bolt action. If I hold the bolt closed it most definitely gets quieter and would be only very slightly louder than the suppressed bolt action. Since the OP posted pics of integral 10/22s I was just using them as a frame of reference. A 10/22 integral will always have bolt cycling noise. I also agree that a thread on can can't compare to the quietness of a good integral bolt action. I am only saying that at a certain point throwing another $600+(?) dollars into a rifle wouldn't get me a $600 quieter value. Like you say though, that is up to the buyer if the extra $ is worth it. I am amazed that your Spectre & CZ are louder than your 10/22s. How do you quiet the action noise on your integral 10/22s? My 10/22 integral has a bolt buffer and a ramped bolt but the cycling still "clacks" and makes it the loudest thing heard. You have some beautiful rifles, I now have integral envy. I am happy that you like my guns. I use a JG bolt lock on the 10/22’s and it does reduce the noise down considerably. I still find that the threaded barreled CZ with the Spectre is offensively loud. I am quite spoiled with integrals, but even with the action noise of the 10/22’s, the integrals are much quieter than the Spectre is on a rifle. (The Spectre on a pistol is a different matter) I have been in search of the ultimate integral for years. I think I found it in the CZ integral. It has been a long and winding journey (and expensive). I am just giving advice here to help people avoid the wrong turns I have made. One of the biggest mistakes is not telling the builder exactly what you want. But in order to do that, the person has to understand what makes an integral quiet and how it should be put together. The machinist who makes it as important as how it is designed. There are a lot of designs out there and they all work, just some a little better than others. As an example of different styles, just look at the end cap of the CZ integral as compared to the end cap of the Johns Guns. They both work, but the CZ is a little more classy. Check out the difference in the barrel nuts. They both do the job, but one uses a spanner wrench with two pins and the other uses a 5/8” socket. When John Tibbetts sold his Johns Guns business, the new owner stopped using steel dowels in the spanner wrench and started using roll pins instead to save money. The roll pins will deform under extreme torque and cam out of the barrel nut. Details, Details, Details. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/TibbettsTool.jpg |
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Quoted: All good points. You see mountains and sky in your pic's background. If I took the same pic here in CT, you'd see hills a lot closer to you, trees, and maybe even houses. Hence the need to shoot as quietly as possible. I think I can get away with a integral semi-auto rather than a bolt though. I'm not going to be shooting in a condo complex or anythingThere are certainly a whole bunch of nice integral rifles in this thread! One thing that the OP should keep in mind is that you can spend serious money and have a significant amount of diminishing returns on investment. Not that I wouldn't love to have anything pictured above but it seems we can often get stuck on the absolute quietest when quiet enough will work. I'll use a rifle of mine as an example. It is an OLD mossberg bolt action I picked up in trade somewhere that I had threaded. The threading cost me much more than the entire rifle. I bought a scope, painted the stock, and hands down it is the quietest suppressed rifle I own. Significantly quieter than my integral 10/22. Literally the loudest thing you hear when you pull the trigger is the hammer falling and bullet impact. Will a custom expensive bolt action integral be a tiny bit quieter? LIkely yes, but such a tiny bit quieter that it may not justify the added expense for you. Just something else to think about. http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/autumnsongmt/1-1.jpg In my home state land does not come cheap, and you do need a certain amount of land to legally discharge firearms. Even if you do have the requisite amount of land, you can still have neighbors tucked uncomfortably within earshot. And neighbors in CT also do not understand the concept of "MYOB" so well, and will likely spaz-out if they suspected gunfire in the area. (folks around here regularly call the cops if they see hunters disembarking vehicles to legally hunt, "just to make sure they are not doing anything illegal OMG THEY HAVE GUNS!" ) Anyways, I'll be buying or building a house this spring/summer and will likely end up on between 5 or 6 acres. I will have a proper backstop and runout, but I also need to ensure that I do everything not to bother nosy neighbors. |
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Quoted: Dan - While I don't have any integral suppressed guns, I do have an AAC Aviator with a P22 and a 10/22 with threaded barrel. http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii157/ewb352/DSC01543.jpg You're close by, let me know if you want to stop by and run some rounds through them. Sounds good! Thanks and will let you know! |
| Are you all using sub sonic ammo or regular 22 rounds. I got my yhm mite a couple of days ago and thogh it is not movie quiet with reg high velocity, you only really hear the bolt cycle with cb shorts. I am using a 1/7 twist on one of my ar's with the 22 conversion. Would it be safe to use the suppressor with the 60gr aguila ss rounds? Thanks |
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). I do like the integrated and finished look though. The point on the ability to use standard ammo is very helpful. Just noticed that TBA has action locks too. That is an attractive feature. Make the semi-auto as quiet as a bolt action.




) Anyways, I'll be buying or building a house this spring/summer and will likely end up on between 5 or 6 acres. I will have a proper backstop and runout, but I also need to ensure that I do everything not to bother nosy neighbors.
