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Posted: 5/29/2005 8:39:32 PM EDT
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Hi, folks. I own a newer Model 70 Classic Compact in 7mm/08, which has been a nice rifle during some tough hunting. I only had one feeding problem: I had some sort of double feed when (I suspect) I short stroked the action while I was in a foot race with a Montana antelope. I liked the size, weight, and price point of the rifle--but I had always been fed the bill of goods that it was a "better" action than the Model 700 or some others. In my days as a gun shop jockey, I heard one "competitor" complain that a fellow competitor's bolt handle separated from the bolt on his 700. (I'm told the bolts on M40A1's are forged from one piece of metal to avoid this.) How do you rate the Model 70--particularly the newer production models? |
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The design is not overrated. From my experience, the design is about the best one going, especially since the David Miller inspired changes. Conical breech, easy to fieldstrip bolt, good proportions and balance. Don't really care one way or another bout the extractor set up. The problem with the Model 70 is an insufficient will to turn a good design into an outstandingly manufactured product. I got rid of my Model 70, partially because of crummy looking machining, and this was a '95 specimen. My district here in AK just took delivery of 10 classic 70s in .375 H&H for bear protection, and several of them have very obvious mill marks and one had to be sent back because of feeding failures. USRAC does not appear to comprehend that they are getting a well-deserved reputation for haphazard craftsmanship (if such a thing exists in a CNC manufacturing world) and careless Quality Control. If they keep this up, they develop a reputation like that of Smith and Wesson in the Lear Siegler days: suitable mostly for rework by competent gunsmiths. That is why my medium bore centerfire is now the most boring of all modern rifles, the Tikka 595. I would much rather have a quality model 70, and would much rather support an item manufactured in America (realize that USRAC is Frog owned) but the Tikka comes with good fit and finish, a bomber scope mounting arrangement and a good trigger. At this point the only American mass produced rifle I would consider would be a Savage. ETA, most of my long time friends owned model 700 Rems of one form or another, and they have never had any problems with them. But I'd be very careful about modern Remingtons as well. It would be very interesting to see if the limited editions or Super America versions of the model 70 are much better in execution than the standard grads. I'd pay another $200 per unit to ensure adequate quality. |
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Good points. I almost bought a T3, but I hadn't heard any of first hand experience with them. I have not noticed any machining problems with my Model 70 (I'll take a closer look and photograph them if I have any luck, just for example's sake), but I will say the bedding on my rifle is terrible, making it impossible to remove the stock. The trigger was good but heavier than I've felt on any bolt action, so I had a gunsmith tune it to three pounds--and it breaks pretty nice--but the gunsmith had to send it back to USRAC to have the stock removed. He was afraid he was going to break it. Even now I cannot remove it. As a perk in the shop I worked, I got a really good deal on the rifle plus scope and mount so I don't feel bad about buying it even if it isn't the "best." (I think I got the whole package new for $400 or so.) Do you have any details of the David Miller changes? I tried googling, and I didn't have much luck. I'm really called to the CZ bolt actions, but I don't know much about them either. While I worked in the gun store, I handled a custom Model 70 Safari in .375 H&H. It was nice. Wood stock, matte stainless barrel and action. I forget how much it cost, but I agree that I don't want to pay a premium for a rifle worth using. |
Sniper Central has a review of the CZ527 here. By the way, you wouldn't happen to be the same Tso who frequented the Hostile Intent forums, would you? |
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Heh. I just shuffled down to the gunsafe and took a look at our best Pre-64 specimen and a couple of push feeds. No USRAC marked on any of them, although I can't recall if this is different from current manufacture. OK it appears I am dead wrong in a couple of ways -- the pre 64 has a conical contour tapering toward the breech. BZZZZT for me. --- there are obvious machining marks in the trough where the rearmost bedding screw can be seen through the tang. BZZZZT for me II. So I am full of shit today. The pre 64 bolt has a hump in it, I don't know what the function is. The current winchester classics do not have this. The post 64 push feed does not have conical breech leads. |
You know, I was thinking about that today while I was cleaning my Garands. If you look at the Winchester M1s, the machining is pretty rough on them too.
No. I have been mistaken for a General_Tso who plays Counterstrike, too. I played it back in the day, but I don't have the time anymore. |
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I have pre-64s and recent vintage classics, and the recent vintage guns look and shoot better. I think it is a good design. The extractor grabs more of the case than the Remington type, and you have the coned breech, the fixed ejector, and the controlled round feed, all of which make the 70 a little more reliable than the competition. The action is stiff, the gun can be unloaded with the safety on, the bolt can be stripped in the field, and the trigger is easy to adjust. All of mine are good shooters, usually like 1.5 MOA with factory loads. I am not a very patient handloader, but I can get MOA without too much trouble. Certainly they are plenty accurate enough for big game hunting. The only 70 I have had problems with is my most recent purchase. They have a new magazine follower that sits a bit lower than the older design. I imagine this is to accomodate the fatter Ulta and WSM cartridges. But it does not sit high enough for an older tapered cartridge (375 H&H), and consequently has extraction problems for the last round in the magazine. I called them about it this morning, and they wanted me to send it in. I think I will try and find an old-style follower first. Obviously, I like Model 70s. But I am not going to pretend that there is much if any real performance difference between the major makes. They all generally make good rifles, and each of them occassionally puts out a few dogs. There is only one that truly stands apart, and that is the Savage: while for the most part decent performers, they are by far the ugliest and cheapest looking rifles known to man. 
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Interesting. Like I said, the only real problem I've had is getting the action out of the stock, which may be an error on my part. (I'm not an expert on taking Model 70s apart, but I suspect it is because the bedding was a sloppy job.
Mine's not that accurate, but I haven't made an effort to handload or really shoot for accuracy. Now that I have a little more access to range time, I'm going to see what I can get out of it.
Could explain the problem with the previous poster's .375s.
They are pretty ugly, but that said my Savage outshoots all my other Rifles. But then again, I've shot that a lot and for accuracy. For whatever faults my Winchester might have, I got an employee discount on the rifle, mount, and scope, so it was pretty darn cheap. Any Model 70 detractors in the audience? |
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Im not impressed with the Mod70s Ive picked up lately. A quick look-see at them and I see shoddy workmanship.............maybe its the few Ive held but,I was thinking on a Coyote model and looked at a couple different ones at different dealers,and I just didnt like them. At the second shop I really looked over ALL the Model 70s he had and wasnt impressed with ANY of them. Ive owned nothing but Remingtons (700s + 788s) and Savage (10s + 12s) for bolt guns and loved every one of them. The older Winnys are real pretty,but have a pretty price with them too. It seems like every 700 I heft looks great..............not awesome...........but just like an American made rifle should look.Im a machinist too,so I notice tool chatter ,beveling,chamfers and such,and it seems like Winchester just lacks a little quality control or something. I have looked at and shot the CZs,they are sweet.  ,finnish right up there with Sako/Tikkas. |
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